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Thread: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

  1. #1
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    Default Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Could be. It could be fascinating to find out just what he knows, that Trump wouldn't want revealed.

    “As attorneys for Michael Cohen rush to meet Judge Kimba Wood’s Friday deadline to complete a privilege review of over 3.7 million documents seized in the April 9 raids of Cohen’s New York properties and law office, a source representing this matter has disclosed to ABC News that the law firm handling the case for Cohen is not expected to represent him going forward.”

    “Cohen, now with no legal representation, is likely to cooperate with federal prosecutors in New York, sources said. This development, which is believed to be imminent, will likely hit the White House, family members, staffers and counsels hard.”
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    More info:

    Attorneys for Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump’s former longtime personal attorney, are expected to stop representing him, multipleoutletsreported Wednesday.McDermott, Will & Emery LLP, the law firm representing Cohen, “is not expected to represent him going forward,” according to ABC. The New York Times said an issue with payment of legal bills prompted the change.

    Cohen’s legal team will stick with him until a review of more than 3.7 million documents seized from his offices and home in April is complete, the Times and Wall Street Journal reported. The deadline for that review is Friday.

    The Times and Wall Street Journal both report Cohen will search for new legal counsel, but he could ultimately choose to cooperate with prosecutors.

    The seizure of those documents led Trump to declare “Attorney-Client privilege is dead!” The search warrant for the raid originated from a referral by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to the Times, although the seizure of Cohen’s documents was not directly tied to Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference.

    Former federal Judge Barbara Jones was appointed to conduct a review of the seized materials to determine which were protected by attorney-client privilege. As of last week, only 162 of the items reviewed by Jones were considered privileged.

    The seized documents related to several matters, including Trump’s payment to porn star Stephanie Clifford, who goes by Stormy Daniels. Cohen is under investigation for bank fraud, campaign-finance violations and other possible crimes.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Please cite the names of these.....sources.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Trump may attempt to thwart questioning by pardoning Cohen for anything and everything. I hope Mueller is keeping the NYAG and Manhatten DA in the loop for going with non-federal charges.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Please cite the names of these.....sources.
    What, you want names? Trump says all the time, I've heard this from many people! Why don't you name his sources bobbys. Better yet, have dingleberry name them. McCarthy said he had a list during HIS rants in the 50's and the pages he held up were blank. If Trump did the same thing, they'd be blank too.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    From the OP and second post.

    complete a privilege review of over 3.7 million documents seized in the April 9 raids

    until a review of
    more than 3.7 million documents seized from his offices and home in April is complete, the Times and Wall Street Journal reported. The deadline for that review is Friday.
    Hmm, IF they started on the 10th (suspect that they did not) = 67 days including Sat and Sundays. IE 7 days a week.

    Allowing 14 hour days = 938 hours.

    3,700,000 / 938 = 3,945 per hour or 66 per minute or 1.09 per second. That is some going - to read and review each document.

    Mind you, having a team of 100 lawyers working 14 hours per day seven days a week would up it to 1 min 50 secs per document review. That doesn't include any time for discussion on the contents of any documents.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Trump may attempt to thwart questioning by pardoning Cohen for anything and everything. I hope Mueller is keeping the NYAG and Manhatten DA in the loop for going with non-federal charges.
    How would pardoning Cohen for anything and everything prevent Cohen from being questioned or answering questions?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    From the OP and second post.



    Hmm, IF they started on the 10th (suspect that they did not) = 67 days including Sat and Sundays. IE 7 days a week.

    Allowing 14 hour days = 938 hours.

    3,700,000 / 938 = 3,945 per hour or 66 per minute or 1.09 per second. That is some going - to read and review each document.

    Mind you, having a team of 100 lawyers working 14 hours per day seven days a week would up it to 1 min 50 secs per document review. That doesn't include any time for discussion on the contents of any documents.
    They undoubtedly employed computers and algorithms to eliminate large quantities of irrelevant items. Nobody said that each and every item among the 3.7M items were individually reviewed. You don't need a human to eliminate irrelevant stuff.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    an issue with payment of legal bills prompted the change.

    Again with the cash flow? First he has to take out a loan to pay off the porn star, now his lawyers leave him on the sinking ship because he can't pay.

    Did donnie ever pay this poor fool a decent salary or was he stiffed like so many others?
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    How would pardoning Cohen for anything and everything prevent Cohen from being questioned or answering questions?
    For one thing, a pardon would then preclude Cohen from invoking the 5th amendment, were he to be questioned by a grand jury... he'd have to answer, or face contempt charges.... if he lied, he'd face perjury charges not covered by any pardon.

    And, of course, no pardon will let him escape prosecution for state crimes.

    Simply stated, he's screwed... and has a LOT of incentive to cooperate.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Mind you, having a team of 100 lawyers working 14 hours per day seven days a week would up it to 1 min 50 secs per document review. That doesn't include any time for discussion on the contents of any documents.
    I'm sure cohen would love to have you assist in his defense... assuming you'll work pro bono of course.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Trump may attempt to thwart questioning by pardoning Cohen for anything and everything. I hope Mueller is keeping the NYAG and Manhatten DA in the loop for going with non-federal charges.
    If he's pardoned, he can't take the Fifth Amendment
    Elect a clown expect a circus

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    For one thing, a pardon would then preclude Cohen from invoking the 5th amendment, were he to be questioned by a grand jury... he'd have to answer, or face contempt charges.... if he lied, he'd face perjury charges not covered by any pardon.

    And, of course, no pardon will let him escape prosecution for state crimes.

    Simply stated, he's screwed... and has a LOT of incentive to cooperate.
    Not sure how a pardon prevents one invoking the US 5th Amendment.

    How does 'Client-Attorney privilege' figure into all that, grand jury etc?

    Also would it be a 'State' crime, on the basis that the Presidential Election is a countrywide (Federal?) election?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    I'm sure cohen would love to have you assist in his defense... assuming you'll work pro bono of course.
    No thanks. But since he has no lawyer willing to represent him further, will a public defender be appointed to defend him?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Please cite the names of these.....sources.
    oh bobbs, what good are sources when you don’t even process what’s being discussed?

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Not sure how a pardon prevents one invoking the US 5th Amendment.

    How does 'Client-Attorney privilege' figure into all that, grand jury etc?

    Also would it be a 'State' crime, on the basis that the Presidential Election is a countrywide (Federal?) election?
    Because one cannot incriminate oneself if one can not be prosecuted.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Not sure how a pardon prevents one invoking the US 5th Amendment.

    If you have been pardoned, then you do not face prosecution for previous crimes.

    Assuming it is a broad pardon, self-incrimination does not apply so there are no 5th Amendment protections.. Then if you lie you would face prosecution for the new crime of perjury. A pardon does not apply for future crimes.

    Catch-22

    If the President then tried to prevent the testimony of a witness, he would be guilty of obstruction of justice. If he then tried to pardon himself, the Supreme Court would be forced to over-rule him or risk a Constitutional crisis that could lead to a potential collapse of the system of checks and balances that give legitimacy to the government.
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Because one cannot incriminate oneself if one can not be prosecuted.
    Prezactly. That's why prosecutors sometimes give immunity to some smaller witnesses to land the big fish.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

  19. #19

    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    I wonder if Mueller will even let him flip, he may have plenty without him.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    ^good point
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Not sure how a pardon prevents one invoking the US 5th Amendment.
    The fifth amendment is the right not to self-incriminate.... if a person is pardoned or receives a waiver of prosecution, he cannot invoke the 5th amendment, because anything he says couldn't be used against him... so he can be forced to testify. This has been well-covered, in the media.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    How does 'Client-Attorney privilege' figure into all that, grand jury etc?
    Attorney-Client privilege does NOT extend to conspiracies to commit crimes. The privilege is void, when it comes to criminal acts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Also would it be a 'State' crime, on the basis that the Presidential Election is a countrywide (Federal?) election?
    The State of New York, or any other state, can prosecute someone on the basis of a state crime, regardless of a federal pardon... the only exception being if the crime being charged is substantially the same as the federal crime for which the person was pardoned. Trump cannot pre-emptively pardon someone for a state crime. If Cohen committed any state crimes unrelated to the election, the prosecutors can go after him... but he still has a huge incentive to cooperate.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    a source representing this matter has disclosed . . .
    No such thing as "representing a matter".
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    "Oh! What A Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice To Deceive"

    --Sir Walter Scott
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Because one cannot incriminate oneself if one can not be prosecuted.
    Here's your pardon, you can read it while being held in jail as a material witness until the proceedings are concluded. If you refuse to testify you can read your pardon some more while in jail for contempt.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    "Oh! What A Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice To Deceive"

    --Sir Walter Scott
    Hmmmmm... fake quote?

    Wasn't that Nixon??? <G>
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    If the President then tried to prevent the testimony of a witness, he would be guilty of obstruction of justice. If he then tried to pardon himself, the Supreme Court would be forced to over-rule him or risk a Constitutional crisis that could lead to a potential collapse of the system of checks and balances that give legitimacy to the government.
    The giving of a pardon can itself be a criminal act. James Comey, as a U.S. Attorney, investigated the Clinton pardon of Marc Rich for that very reason. Prior to the pardon, Comey was negotiating with Rich's lawyers (among them, Scooter Libby) for Rich's extradition from Switzerland and guilty plea. At the time, the largest tax evasion case in US history.

    Can the Prez go down for it? Oh S yes. And so of course he can be impeached for it, which would save the collapse of the system, etc. Which, come to think of it, is an excellent reason for impeachment.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    they have his phone records, his text messages and emails.

    they will sink him. Once he begins to explain them - he is toast. He can be pardoned for the crimes but who he implicates based on those electronic records is what Cohen is serving on plater. While he waits not talking in his shared holding cell, those peanut butter sandwiches and old milk in 8 oz cartons will begin taking its toll.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    I've ruled out the possibility of impeachment due to the spineless sycophants in the house!
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    If he then tried to pardon himself, the Supreme Court would be forced to over-rule him or risk a Constitutional crisis that could lead to a potential collapse of the system of checks and balances that give legitimacy to the government.

    That would serve putin's agenda perfectly.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    The fifth amendment is the right not to self-incriminate.... if a person is pardoned or receives a waiver of prosecution, he cannot invoke the 5th amendment, because anything he says couldn't be used against him... so he can be forced to testify. This has been well-covered, in the media.



    Attorney-Client privilege does NOT extend to conspiracies to commit crimes. The privilege is void, when it comes to criminal acts.



    The State of New York, or any other state, can prosecute someone on the basis of a state crime, regardless of a federal pardon... the only exception being if the crime being charged is substantially the same as the federal crime for which the person was pardoned. Trump cannot pre-emptively pardon someone for a state crime. If Cohen committed any state crimes unrelated to the election, the prosecutors can go after him... but he still has a huge incentive to cooperate.

    Thanks Norm and others for explanations. Appreciated.

    The 'pardon' would only be a 'Federal pardon' so could still be liable to be prosecuted under State law so surely he could/would plead 5th to avoid that?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    If he then tried to pardon himself, the Supreme Court would be forced to over-rule him or risk a Constitutional crisis that could lead to a potential collapse of the system of checks and balances that give legitimacy to the government.

    That would serve putin's agenda perfectly.
    Another argument for impeachment. Add intent and voila, treason.
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    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    If he then tried to pardon himself, the Supreme Court would be forced to over-rule him or risk a Constitutional crisis that could lead to a potential collapse of the system of checks and balances that give legitimacy to the government.

    That would serve putin's agenda perfectly.
    it means more than that... the rule of law no longer applies to anyone as we can all pardon our selves from any crime.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    The 'pardon' would only be a 'Federal pardon' so could still be liable to be prosecuted under State law so surely he could/would plead 5th to avoid that?
    Presuming that the crime charged by the state were a separate and distinct crime, from the one for which he was pardoned, then yes, he could plead the 5th.

    Things get a little complex, however, when it comes to the 'double jeopardy' issue. Since the Constitution guarantees that no one can be prosecuted twice, for the same crime, the State is limited in what it can prosecute. I'm not sure about what happens in a pre-emptive pardon, though... if, for example, Trump were to pardon Cohen in advance of any indictment by Mueller, AND if the offense was also a crime under the laws of a state, I believe that state COULD prosecute him for the same crime... since he hadn't actually been charged by the feds.

    I don't think it makes a great deal of difference... from what little has been revealed so far, it appears that the State of New York would have way more than sufficient evidence against him, to send him to the slammer for decades. It might have NOTHING to do with Trump... but facing that kind of jail term, I should think that Cohen would have a HUGE incentive to flip, for ANYTHING that might lessen a potential sentence.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    With all the millions of dollars corporations and foreign entities have paid him for “insights into the presidency” why can’t he pay his legal bills? Just what happened to all that money? Could it be sitting in trump’s offshore bank accounts? Time will tell.

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    Default Re: Is Michael Cohen about to flip?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    With all the millions of dollars corporations and foreign entities have paid him for “insights into the presidency” why can’t he pay his legal bills? Just what happened to all that money?
    Probably hidden in Cohen's personal offshore accounts.... and since it's quite possible that a potential charge against him could be the laundering of money and tax avoidance via offshore accounts, maybe he can't liberate any of it without it being seized by the prosecutors.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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