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Thread: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

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    Default What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Can someone tell me the difference between this episode and Bill Clinton's deal with NK ?

    President Bill Clinton took the podium on October 18, 1994, with a speech that reads like a sigh of relief—the announcement of a landmark nuclear agreement between the United States and North Korea. “This agreement is good for the United States, good for our allies, and good for the safety of the entire world,” he assured the nation. Called the Agreed Framework, it was designed to put the brakes on North Korea’s nuclear program, and it promised to put an end to years of increasing nuclear tension, including a near war, to a halt.
    “This agreement represents the first step on the road to a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula,” Clinton said. “It does not rely on trust.” In exchange for North Korea ending its nuclear weapons program, the United States agreed to normalize relations with the nation—and both agreed to pursue “formal assurances” not to use nukes against one another.

    https://www.history.com/news/north-k...reed-framework
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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Billions of dollars, for starters.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Maybe nuthin'. But face to face, with a different man, may be a different start. Let's hope so!

    Um, the politics really are getting my goat a bit. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not fond of Trump. But give credit where credit is due, he made a new step here!

    Trump could see a full moon rising in a clear sky, remark how lovely it looked, and some would say the man needs an eye exam! I mean com'on!

    Politics.
    Last edited by ishmael; 06-13-2018 at 06:18 AM.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.


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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    It's too early to tell Peter, just a mou. And the exercises? Donald just gave away a lot, Kimmy and China won that round I think.
    Evidently that caught SK unawares too, freelancing with no documentation. Never a good idea.
    But maybe he'll pull something off, but keeping NK to what bargain he can manage? Good luck with that.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Yes, it's Clinton's deal all over again. I'm sure Trump's supporters applauded that deal.... ya reckon?
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 06-13-2018 at 07:12 AM.
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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    A part of the Trump phenomenon is that some large percentage of the American people began to feel optimistic again. It's politics, fer sure. But it's also a wave 'in the air'. Something intangible, yet quite real. Blame it on the stars!

    I figure that the men met, face to face, deserves some credit all around.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    A part of the Trump phenomenon is that some large percentage of the American people began to feel optimistic again. It's politics, fer sure. But it's also a wave 'in the air'. Something intangible, yet quite real. Blame it on the stars!

    I figure that the men met, face to face, deserves some credit all around.
    If you are in the 1% or are a CEO for a huge corporation, you'd feel optimistic. The others are not showing any optimism at all.

    So, they met. Fine ISH but, I'm more concerned about what they agreed on. In this case and for all intents and purposes. This is partly due to his unwillingness to prepare for it. Tell me Ish, what concessions did Trump make that Kim agreed to? NONE. He didn't set a time frame, he didn't have Kim allow any nuclear inspectors to check on his dismantling of his Nukes, nothing! What did he give up; cession of those war games to have been held in August. He didn't even confer with Skorea's president Moon or the PM of Japan, just did it.

    Kim by meeting Trump has gained Worldwide recognition that NK is a power to be respected. Good Job! And he didn't have to promise anything he or his dad or his grandfather haven't promised in the past.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    I think there's one huge difference. Trump has the advantage of being able to look back at Clinton's deal and seeing how it worked out.

    One can learn from mistakes, no?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I think there's one huge difference. Trump has the advantage of being able to look back at Clinton's deal and seeing how it worked out.

    One can learn from mistakes, no?
    You do know you're talking about Trump here, right?

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    As far as I can tell, Trump's 'deal' was a lot of fuss, a photo op, some vague and meaningless words on a document, and some serious damage to our relationship with South Korea. I'd like to be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    A part of the Trump phenomenon is that some large percentage of the American people began to feel optimistic again. It's politics, fer sure. But it's also a wave 'in the air'. Something intangible, yet quite real.
    Jesus, Jack; have you looked at his approval numbers? A considerably larger percentage reads the morning paper and wants to barf. Intangible optimism, my *ss. Maybe in all-white all-anglo rural Maine.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    As far as I can tell, Trump's 'deal' was a lot of fuss, a photo op, some vague and meaningless words on a document, and some serious damage to our relationship with South Korea. I'd like to be wrong.

    Jesus, Jack; have you looked at his approval numbers? A considerably larger percentage reads the morning paper and wants to barf. Intangible optimism, my *ss. Maybe in all-white all-anglo rural Maine.
    Don't forget Japan!Pompeo is over there sweeping up Trump's mess he left for Moon and Abe to deal with.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    You do know you're talking about Trump here, right?
    Yes. I don't expect him to study history. My point is the history is there, if one wishes to study, and learn from, it.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Yes. I don't expect him to study history. My point is the history is there, if one wishes to study, and learn from, it.
    And he doesn't wish to do so John! Remember, Canada burned the WH in 1812!

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Can someone tell me the difference between this episode and Bill Clinton's deal with NK ?
    Or, indeed, between this and what Kim Jong Un recently agreed with the South Koreans?

    The only way to know how this will play is to wait and see. If anything more constructive than what has gone before (more than once) emerges - credit is due. But Trump put on a double show for his base "base" (not a typo) - insult the Europeans and cuddle up to Kim. What could be more satisfying? He certainly seems to get along better with dictators than democracies.
    "Mozart is the heart's touchstone" (Edwin Fischer)

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Did you see John Kelly's facial expression during the photo ops? An expression of deep concern. Deep down, he knows that Trump is a pompous a$$ and that this 'deal' is doing nothing but harm to America's relationship with it's allies.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    A part of the Trump phenomenon is that some large percentage of the American people began to feel optimistic again. It's politics, fer sure. But it's also a wave 'in the air'. Something intangible, yet quite real. Blame it on the stars!

    I figure that the men met, face to face, deserves some credit all around.
    I was hoping he would succeed. It is not clear that he did.

    Optimism does not make the Korean Peninsula safer.

    As for a wave in the air, check the recent elections. They did not go Trump's way.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Did you see John Kelly's facial expression during the photo ops? An expression of deep concern. Deep down, he knows that Trump is a pompous a$$ and that this 'deal' is doing nothing but harm to America's relationship with it's allies.
    He's also been more verbal about his disgust with there WH crowd and the Dictator who pulls the strings. I expect that he's reached his limit or is close and quits before he's fired sooner rather than later. Before when rumors flew about his leaving/removal were in the news, I thought, NOT YET! but now, I'm changing my mind.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Without the nukes NK would be just another poor country waiting for invasion, regime change and exploitation. Kim’s not giving them up, at this point they don’t even have to work to serve his purpose, he’s already won. Kim just got the president of the US to leave the G7 early and fly half way around the world for a photo op and a tease of a deal. Kim’s not going to sign a deal with the US, they’re not worth the paper they’re written on, Trump just demonstrated that with the G7 accord and with the Iran deal, that agreements with the US are only good till the next election or until Trump feels insecure.
    Kim and Trump are like two servings from a pot of crap stew, same taste different turd, bullies both who threaten when they can’t get their way. This week Kim got his way and Trump is looking desperate and weak. Sad, biggly sad.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Just a note: Korea ain't Libya.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    Just a note: Korea ain't Libya.
    Not yet! Remember Bolton Ish?

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Com'on! Do really think that China is going let Korea become another Libya? If you do, there's this proverbial bridge in Brooklyn I hear is coming on the market.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    Com'on! Do really think that China is going let Korea become another Libya? If you do, there's this proverbial bridge in Brooklyn I hear is coming on the market.
    The question is, does Trump know that China will run to North Korea's aid. I sometimes think he doesn't and with Bolton being his National Advisor in all things Bolton, Trump is likely to listen to him Ish. If you don't believe that, pay for the bridge you mentioned. Look nice in your driveway.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    If I remember correctly, the relationship with NK had somewhat mellowed during the Clinton years. Then one of the first things George Bush did was include them on his “Axis of Evil” list. Remember that? The relationship definitely took a turn for the worse following that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.A Marche View Post
    Without the nukes NK would be just another poor country waiting for invasion, regime change and exploitation. Kim’s not giving them up, at this point they don’t even have to work to serve his purpose, he’s already won. Kim just got the president of the US to leave the G7 early and fly half way around the world for a photo op and a tease of a deal. Kim’s not going to sign a deal with the US, they’re not worth the paper they’re written on, Trump just demonstrated that with the G7 accord and with the Iran deal, that agreements with the US are only good till the next election or until Trump feels insecure.
    Kim and Trump are like two servings from a pot of crap stew, same taste different turd, bullies both who threaten when they can’t get their way. This week Kim got his way and Trump is looking desperate and weak. Sad, biggly sad.


    Whot he said!


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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Yes, that was GWBush's lesson to the world, be armed. Have serious defensive capacity or end up like Qaddafi or Sadam.
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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Kim noticed.
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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Both Kim and Trump made a deal with the devil.
    They are both devils!
    Anyone who cheers this meeting of mad minds is naïve as hell.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    if I am honest, I really wanted the Donald to do something of substance about North Korea. From all intents though, he gave away the farm and got nothing in return.

    The part I truly find sad though, When Obama talked about meeting with NK, the right wing media roasted him alive. The Donald does it and he is their savior
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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    John Smith
    I think there's one huge difference. Trump has the advantage of being able to look back at Clinton's deal and seeing how it worked out.
    One can learn from mistakes, no?


    Mr. Smith,yYou don't know Jack ____

    The GOPPERS sabotaged the Clinton deal, and the Iran deal . .

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a7876446.html

    You are living in a FOX-induced fantasy world

    What can we learn? The US Reich is evil incarnate, for openers
    Last edited by sandtown; 06-14-2018 at 12:02 AM. Reason: clarify

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    The difference is Clintons deal is done, and didn't work. Trumps deal is just starting, and might not work.

    History will tell.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Why didn't the Clinton deal work? See above

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Yes, it's Clinton's deal all over again. I'm sure Trump's supporters applauded that deal.... ya reckon?
    Not quite. Clinton's deal included verification. Bush the Lesser thought he could get a better deal by being belligerent, and his attempt to do better collapsed the Clinton deal.

    Kim already got a lot of what he wanted from Trump. We got nothing but hot air.

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Yes, that was GWBush's lesson to the world, be armed. Have serious defensive capacity or end up like Qaddafi or Sadam.
    Gaddafi was killed in Oct. 2011, nearly three years into Obama’s first term, an operation under hiliary’s direction. “We came, we saw, he died.” But don’t let the truth get in the way of your concept.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: What's the difference between Trump's deal and Clinton's.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    Gaddafi was killed in Oct. 2011, nearly three years into Obama’s first term, an operation under hiliary’s direction. “We came, we saw, he died.” But don’t let the truth get in the way of your concept.
    You missed the point, that being he couldn't defend himself and his regime. Neither could Sadam.

    It wasn't about Bush, merely the lesson he taught in Iraq. IIRC someone in the Trump administration recently reminded Kim about Gaddafi's fate.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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