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Thread: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

  1. #71
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    Just spit-balling here... but I doubt Republican Sanders supporters in Vermont bear much resemblance to people like genglandoh, mdh, bobbys, delecta, Noisey, etc. here in the Bilge.

    Unfortunately Vermont is not representative of the rest of the U.S.A. If only it were.
    No - the hard right would never have voted for Bernie - but we've got soem "special" cases here in the Bilge.

    I've related this elsewhere, but it obviously needs repeating. During the primaries, I spent some time in Illinois & Ohio - aka Trump country. Stop # 1 was at a gun mfr. in Illinois. I was waiting to get in with a group of about 20 guys who worked in the shop making & assembling guns. One of the guys said "Hey - you're from VT - tell us about Bernie." I said OK & most all of them gathered 'round. The consensus was (after I'd said a few things) that they'd vote for Bernie if he won the nomination, otherwise it'd be Trump. Stop # 2 was at a tractor dealership in a mostly boarded up small town farming community on the Indiana/Ohio border. Same sorta deal: "Hey - are you from VT (having seen my plates)? Tell us about Bernie. Same response as in Illinois. # 3 was on the Ohio/West Virginia border, where I was stopped outside the Historical Society by a group of older men heading for lunch at the local diner. Same thing there: if I can vote for Bernie I will, otherwise it's Trump.

    Obviously - anecdotal evidence is just that, but 3 different places, several states apart & exactly the same statements from 50+ people should make one pause. I don't mean to be rude, but the Dems who have their heads in the sand about the shortcomings of today's Dem party really need to get out & talk to some people outside their bubbles. Might learn something.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  2. #72
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    According to the research, as many as 1.6M Bernie primary voters cast their votes for Trump in the general.

    Take your pick, here. They all say about 12%.

    Wiki has Bernie Primary voters at 13,206,428.

    12% of 13,206,428 is 1,584,771.

    I think 1.58M votes would be conclusive in that race, especially when you consider that 1.5M for Trump is 1.5M against Hillary, meaning the Bernietrumps made a 3M vote difference.
    Just because they were Sanders supporters doesn't mean HC ever had a chance with them. I don't agree with them but, they voted for Trump because HC was that bad in their eyes. It wasn't a Sanders problem, it was an HC problem.
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  3. #73
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    What can I say? I was willing to compromise with regard to the Republican alternative and you evidently were not.

    I thought preventing Trump from being elected was more important than anything else and I voted for the candidate I thought had the best chance of defeating him. I thought defeating the threat of a Trump presidency justified compromising on ideological purity.

    Too bad if that makes anyone feel guilty.
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  4. #74
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Feeling chippy this afternoon I see.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





  5. #75
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    What can I say? I was willing to compromise with regard to the Republican alternative and you evidently were not.

    I thought preventing Trump from being elected was more important than anything else and I voted for the candidate I thought had the best chance of defeating him. I thought defeating the threat of a Trump presidency justified compromising on ideological purity.

    Too bad if that makes anyone feel guilty.
    .
    Trust me - after the Trump Disgustancy, it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for a Republican. Thing is, there are a lot of people out there who feel exactly the same way about a Democrat.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  6. #76
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    No - the hard right would never have voted for Bernie - but we've got soem "special" cases here in the Bilge.

    I've related this elsewhere, but it obviously needs repeating. During the primaries, I spent some time in Illinois & Ohio - aka Trump country. Stop # 1 was at a gun mfr. in Illinois. I was waiting to get in with a group of about 20 guys who worked in the shop making & assembling guns. One of the guys said "Hey - you're from VT - tell us about Bernie." I said OK & most all of them gathered 'round. The consensus was (after I'd said a few things) that they'd vote for Bernie if he won the nomination, otherwise it'd be Trump. Stop # 2 was at a tractor dealership in a mostly boarded up small town farming community on the Indiana/Ohio border. Same sorta deal: "Hey - are you from VT (having seen my plates)? Tell us about Bernie. Same response as in Illinois. # 3 was on the Ohio/West Virginia border, where I was stopped outside the Historical Society by a group of older men heading for lunch at the local diner. Same thing there: if I can vote for Bernie I will, otherwise it's Trump.

    Obviously - anecdotal evidence is just that, but 3 different places, several states apart & exactly the same statements from 50+ people should make one pause. I don't mean to be rude, but the Dems who have their heads in the sand about the shortcomings of today's Dem party really need to get out & talk to some people outside their bubbles. Might learn something.



    Dead on.
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    The existence of this thread, brought to you as it is by genglandoh, is proof positive that Republicans/Trumpistas understand full well the negative role that Bernie Sanders played in the campaign of 2016. They are wetting themselves at the possibility of a replay. Democrats--all progressives, really-- would do well to catch on.

    Concern trolling the victimization of Bernie Sanders at the hands of the DNC? How does that work if it doesn't play. And why do they care if it isn't destructive to liberal and progressive agendas.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret
    Trust me - after the Trump Disgustancy, it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for a Republican. Thing is, there are a lot of people out there who feel exactly the same way about a Democrat.
    Don't I know it. Some of them are members of my family.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





  9. #79
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret
    Obviously - anecdotal evidence is just that, but 3 different places, several states apart & exactly the same statements from 50+ people should make one pause. I don't mean to be rude, but the Dems who have their heads in the sand about the shortcomings of today's Dem party really need to get out & talk to some people outside their bubbles. Might learn something.
    That story tells me that these are people primarily interested in voting for someone they perceive as an outsider. That would align with my experience with Trump voters I work with. Sanders actually aligned with their interests on a number of issues. But once he was no longer an alternative they voted for a con man rather than for someone they viewed as a harpy. They really aren't interested in Democrats. They hate "liberal Democrats." They really didn't consider Bernie to be a "Democrat."

    Oh well... so it goes.
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 06-11-2018 at 06:31 PM.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    The existence of this thread, brought to you as it is by genglandoh, is proof positive that Republicans/Trumpistas understand full well the negative role that Bernie Sanders played in the campaign of 2016. They are wetting themselves at the possibility of a replay. Democrats--all progressives, really-- would do well to catch on.

    Concern trolling the victimization of Bernie Sanders at the hands of the DNC? How does that work if it doesn't play. And why do they care if it isn't destructive to liberal and progressive agendas.
    .

    Do you honestly think bernie had a chance.

    In the debates he was a yes mame stooge.

    The dnc had it rigged and bernie was just a stooge to have hillary look smart and a street fighter.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    ^
    Hilarious!
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.

    "OK. Fine. So he exaggerated a little on that."





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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Do you honestly think bernie had a chance.

    In the debates he was a yes mame stooge.

    The dnc had it rigged and bernie was just a stooge to have hillary look smart and a street fighter.
    psychotic!

  13. #83
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Do you honestly think bernie had a chance.

    In the debates he was a yes mame stooge.

    The dnc had it rigged and bernie was just a stooge to have hillary look smart and a street fighter.
    Koolaid poisoning is a known issue. You might want to see someone about it.

    BTW - I've talked to Bernie - I know this is BS. Lot of that stuff floating around on this thread.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    We keep getting this 'rigged system' and 'stab in the back' narrative. Bernie got fewer votes, that's why he didn't get the nomination. Although he had more appeal to white male voters than Hillary did, he had less appeal than she to a wide swath of Democratic primary voters. Yes, Hillary had more superdelegates, no, she didn't have to use that advantage, because she got more votes in the primaries.

    If either party wants their nominee to belong to their party, that's up to the parties, which are private organizations and allowed to set their own rules. They may be bad rules, but as an independent, I don't get to tell them what rules they should have. Nor does Bernie Sanders, who has never joined either party. If he wants in on the rule making of the party, he needs to join that party.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Obviously, you are assuming that all Bernie supporters lean left. That's wrong. Bernie has huge support from independents & a surprising # from the right. How else can a man win 86% of the vote in a state that's 35% Republican? He gets huge support from veterans (a notoriously conservative group - particularly older vets) because of his support on venteran's affairs & working to clean up the VA. He also gets support from fiscal conservatives (yep - it's true) because of his work to expose gov't spending - particularly the Pentagon.

    A couple of personal cases in point: My neighbor has not one, but two MAGA hats. He votes for Bernie in every election because 1) he looks out for the little guy, 2) is not anti-gun & 3) the above mentioned work to expose gov't spending problems. Another is similar - though he wasn't conned by Trump - but he's a huge 2nd amendment guy & likes Bernie's veterans & spending expose` record.

    All the articles (& people here) whining about Bernie supporters not supporting HRC completely miss that many who do vote for him in VT & would've voted for him nationally have never, ever voted for a Democrat in their entire life.

    Therefore your math above is fantasy - IOW imaginary numbers.
    Your friend didn't vote for Bernie in the 2016 Presidential election. .

    The link I posted shows study after study after analysis after analysis that about 12% of people who voted for Bernie in the primaries then voted for Trump in the general..

    That is not a made up number.

    Also, it is easily demonstrated that 13,206,428 people voted for Bernie in the primaries.

    That is not a made up number.

    The result is that 1.58M people voted for Bernie in the primaries, but voted for Trump in the general.

    Why you have such a problem with this is beyond my ken.


    Bernie chose to run as a Democrat.

    He lost the primary.

    He was not very supportive after that, and those 1.58M people voted Trump.

    Because Bernie wouldn't dance with them what brung him.

    He made a Faustian bargain, and lost.

    Bigly.
    Rattling the teacups.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    ...
    The result is that 1.58M people voted for Bernie in the primaries, but voted for Trump in the general.

    Why you have such a problem with this is beyond my ken.


    Bernie chose to run as a Democrat.

    He lost the primary.

    He was not very supportive after that, and those 1.58M people voted Trump.

    Because Bernie wouldn't dance with them what brung him.

    He made a Faustian bargain, and lost.

    Bigly.
    No - because he was not in the actual race, many voted for Trump because they would not vote for either HRC or a Dem. This ain't rocket surgery. To say that they didn't vote for HRC because of Bernie is self-delusion at best - something the DNC seems to suffer from as well.

    And - my friend & my neighbor have indeed voted for Bernie - as our senator. Twice in fact.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Do you honestly think bernie had a chance.

    In the debates he was a yes mame stooge.

    The dnc had it rigged and bernie was just a stooge to have hillary look smart and a street fighter.
    Look, people. Even bobbys knows the value of a good "Bernie the Victim" narrative.

    And why does it get so much traction now? Because Bernie himself played the hand, over and over. Go back and page through the Dem primary news headlines. Bernie's biggest newsmaking was his feud with the DNC.

    And go back to his speeches with fresh ears. All resentment, class division, and white populism. Wallstreet, one percenters, free college for everyone? Really?

    It's no accident Bernie got nowhere with minorities. They could see him coming a mile away, the left hand version of Donald Trump.

    Even our own Sky Blue would have voted for Bernie had he won the Dem nom. White populism played across the entire spectrum of white voters in 2016. The real differences were only geographical.

    Everybody else wanted Hillary. Think on that.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    The DNC should be trying to win over Sanders supporters.
    Instead they are making decisions to alienate Sanders supporters.

    First they say they will not get involved in the 2018 primaries but they change their mind and back Cuomo in the NY Primary.
    Now they change the rules for who can run for President in 2020.

    Title: DNC RULE CHANGE MAY BLOCK BERNIE SANDERS FROM RUNNING AS DEMOCRAT IN 2020
    A new rule adopted by the Democratic National Committee may block Bernie Sanders and other political outsiders from seeking the Democratic Party’s nomination in the 2020 presidential election.
    Link: http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sande...ew-rule-967928
    The DNC in 2016 made a mistake and rigged the system against Sanders.
    It hurt there chances of winning the election in 2016.

    But today they have not learned from their mistake.
    They should is be trying to win over Sanders supporters, but instead are alienating them with their actions.

    Maybe I should contact the DNC and get paid for this advice.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    The DNC in 2016 made a mistake and rigged the system against Sanders.
    It hurt there chances of winning the election in 2016.

    But today they have not learned from their mistake.
    They should is be trying to win over Sanders supporters, but instead are alienating them with their actions.

    Maybe I should contact the DNC and get paid for this advice.
    They'll listen every bit as much as the HRC disciples here do. IOW - not at all.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    The DNC in 2016 made a mistake and rigged the system against Sanders.
    It hurt there chances of winning the election in 2016.

    But today they have not learned from their mistake.
    They should is be trying to win over Sanders supporters, but instead are alienating them with their actions.

    Maybe I should contact the DNC and get paid for this advice.
    Wouldn't it be more useful to find a way for the Republicans to select a candidate who would do less harm to the country?

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    ^^ pretty much.. guess it's good they have a scapegoat - helps them sleep at night.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    They'll listen every bit as much as the HRC disciples here do. IOW - not at all.
    Do you think the DNC could win over Sanders supporters and still keep their base?
    I think it would be easy all they have to do is
    1. Stay out of the Primaries and let the voters pick the winners like they said they would.
    2. Stop making rule changes that do not allow independents for running.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    ^ Damn, this is scary.. you're making sense.

    The true blues will of course always vote Dem. It's the independents who need wooing.. and who are instead scorned. helluva way to run a 'please help us' campaign.
    Last edited by Durnik; 06-11-2018 at 09:54 PM. Reason: fat finga's touch screen..

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    Do you think the DNC could win over Sanders supporters and still keep their base?
    I think it would be easy all they have to do is
    1. Stay out of the Primaries and let the voters pick the winners like they said they would.
    2. Stop making rule changes that do not allow independents for running.
    That works for me.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Wouldn't it be more useful to find a way for the Republicans to select a candidate who would do less harm to the country?
    POTUS has make the US much better in just 500 days.
    So the nation could not have a better POTUS.
    You should be thanking the Reps for allowing the primary process to elect the best person for the job.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    POTUS has make the US much better in just 500 days.
    So the nation could not have a better POTUS.
    You should be thanking the Reps for allowing the primary process to elect the best person for the job.
    Guess we're done agreeing
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    ^ Damn, this is scary.. you're making sense.

    The true blues will of course always vote Dem. It's the indepemdents who need wooing.. and who are instead scorned. helluva way to run a 'please help us' campaign.
    I know it is just common sense.
    You have to wonder why the DNC is not doing it.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Guess we're done agreeing
    IKR? I was shocked he got one correct - but it was a homer!

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Here's the deal on Bernie.

    Hush, now. I'll get to HRC/DWC/DNC in a minute.

    On Bernie, he chose to run as a Democrat.

    He lost the primary.

    By the unwritten rules of US Electoral Politics, he had a moral obligation to be a good loser, and throw his whole-hearted support behind HRC immediately, and cheerfully.

    He had a moral obligation to support the Democratic candidate, because he ran as a Democrat.

    It really is that simple.

    The Republican Presidential field started at what, 17 candidates?

    Just going from memory, I think the only one who never endorsed the ratfreaker-in-chief was Kasich.

    The Republican Party pulled in unison, and left Hillary in the dust.

    Bernie got all butt hurt, and showed a lot of sore loserhood, did NOT throw his whole-hearted support behind HRC immediately, and cheerfully, and once again, the Democratic party snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

    IMO, Bernie has a lot to answer for.

    I don't doubt his 'integrity', but integrity doesn't mean diddly if you don't get elected.

    Ever.

    That said, Billary have quite a bit to answer for, as well.

    It has occurred to me that if Bill had been at the podium, He'd be President now.

    Wait.

    What I mean to say is that the real tragedy of HRC is that she isn't Bill.

    No, wait . . .

    What I'm trying to say is that Hillary's speeches were as wooden and as staid as she comes off, but if Bill had been delivering the speeches, they may well have caught fire.

    He had a way.




    I guess what it boils down to is that Bubba's ego ruined HRC's run for prez about 25 years ago.



    And DWS!!!

    Talk about feckless!

    Dear jesus. We have come so far in this country that a woman can be the head of the DNC, and an Irishman can be the POTUS, but we can't hike up our big-girl britches and get single-payer done?

    Really?


    i really hate Will Rogers, some days, and other days I'm sure he understands.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Here's the deal on Bernie.

    Hush, now. I'll get to HRC/DWC/DNC in a minute.

    On Bernie, he chose to run as a Democrat.

    He lost the primary.

    By the unwritten rules of US Electoral Politics, he had a moral obligation to be a good loser, and throw his whole-hearted support behind HRC immediately, and cheerfully.

    He had a moral obligation to support the Democratic candidate, because he ran as a Democrat.

    It really is that simple.

    The Republican Presidential field started at what, 17 candidates?

    Just going from memory, I think the only one who never endorsed the ratfreaker-in-chief was Kasich.

    The Republican Party pulled in unison, and left Hillary in the dust.

    Bernie got all butt hurt, and showed a lot of sore loserhood, did NOT throw his whole-hearted support behind HRC immediately, and cheerfully, and once again, the Democratic party snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

    IMO, Bernie has a lot to answer for.

    I don't doubt his 'integrity', but integrity doesn't mean diddly if you don't get elected.

    Ever.

    That said, Billary have quite a bit to answer for, as well.

    It has occurred to me that if Bill had been at the podium, He'd be President now.

    Wait.

    What I mean to say is that the real tragedy of HRC is that she isn't Bill.

    No, wait . . .

    What I'm trying to say is that Hillary's speeches were as wooden and as staid as she comes off, but if Bill had been delivering the speeches, they may well have caught fire.

    He had a way.




    I guess what it boils down to is that Bubba's ego ruined HRC's run for prez about 25 years ago.



    And DWS!!!

    Talk about feckless!

    Dear jesus. We have come so far in this country that a woman can be the head of the DNC, and an Irishman can be the POTUS, but we can't hike up our big-girl britches and get single-payer done?

    Really?


    i really hate Will Rogers, some days, and other days I'm sure he understands.
    Lordy, John, what an epic post!!!
    I read it three times and I'll read it some more.
    Insightful, colorful, literate, poetic even.
    Thank you, Sir!

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Here's the deal on Bernie.

    Hush, now. I'll get to HRC/DWC/DNC in a minute.

    On Bernie, he chose to run as a Democrat.

    He lost the primary.

    By the unwritten rules of US Electoral Politics, he had a moral obligation to be a good loser, and throw his whole-hearted support behind HRC immediately, and cheerfully.

    He had a moral obligation to support the Democratic candidate, because he ran as a Democrat.

    It really is that simple.

    The Republican Presidential field started at what, 17 candidates?

    Just going from memory, I think the only one who never endorsed the ratfreaker-in-chief was Kasich.

    The Republican Party pulled in unison, and left Hillary in the dust.

    Bernie got all butt hurt, and showed a lot of sore loserhood, did NOT throw his whole-hearted support behind HRC immediately, and cheerfully, and once again, the Democratic party snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

    IMO, Bernie has a lot to answer for.

    I don't doubt his 'integrity', but integrity doesn't mean diddly if you don't get elected.

    Ever.

    That said, Billary have quite a bit to answer for, as well.

    It has occurred to me that if Bill had been at the podium, He'd be President now.

    Wait.

    What I mean to say is that the real tragedy of HRC is that she isn't Bill.

    No, wait . . .

    What I'm trying to say is that Hillary's speeches were as wooden and as staid as she comes off, but if Bill had been delivering the speeches, they may well have caught fire.

    He had a way.




    I guess what it boils down to is that Bubba's ego ruined HRC's run for prez about 25 years ago.



    And DWS!!!

    Talk about feckless!

    Dear jesus. We have come so far in this country that a woman can be the head of the DNC, and an Irishman can be the POTUS, but we can't hike up our big-girl britches and get single-payer done?

    Really?


    i really hate Will Rogers, some days, and other days I'm sure he understands.
    Gobblygook!

  32. #102
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    22,151

    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Gobblygook!
    After all these years you still can't spell it! lol

  33. #103
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    23,330

    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    POTUS has make the US much better in just 500 days.
    So the nation could not have a better POTUS.
    You should be thanking the Reps for allowing the primary process to elect the best person for the job.
    Fascinating. At that level of discernment, I don't think you have any business giving advice to anyone.

  34. #104
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northwest Oregon coast
    Posts
    26,162

    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Longino View Post
    After all these years you still can't spell it! lol
    No one can say it like you can!

  35. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    29,996

    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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