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Thread: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

  1. #1
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    Default The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    The DNC should be trying to win over Sanders supporters.
    Instead they are making decisions to alienate Sanders supporters.

    First they say they will not get involved in the 2018 primaries but they change their mind and back Cuomo in the NY Primary.
    Now they change the rules for who can run for President in 2020.

    Title: DNC RULE CHANGE MAY BLOCK BERNIE SANDERS FROM RUNNING AS DEMOCRAT IN 2020
    A new rule adopted by the Democratic National Committee may block Bernie Sanders and other political outsiders from seeking the Democratic Partyís nomination in the 2020 presidential election.
    Link: http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sande...ew-rule-967928

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh View Post
    The DNC rigged the Presidential Primaries in 2016.
    Well they are doing it again in 2018.
    You have to wonder if this will hurt Voter Turnout.

    Title: Party chief Tom Perez says DNC must keep out of primaries, then intervenes for Cuomo
    Link: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ele...o-race-n877281


    Title: Progressives seethe over DNC chair Perez's decision to back Cuomo in NY primary fight
    Link: https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/polit...xon/index.html

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    [IMc - Will Rogers fameously observed, "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat." And it's true that intramural Democratic party politics is not touch football. But the drum beat of rightwing efforts to convince anyone, especially Democrats, that a cabal of evil Wall Street scoundrels are subverting the honest progressives and therefor the progressives should just form a third party or better yet commit suicide in pointless despair does not stand the test of reality. There are real differences. Unlike Republicans, Democrats have a broad range from liberal to conservative and there's always competition. And many of those new to political life, inspired by Sanders but still rather young, were a bit shocked that they did not win first time out. But as we are seeing, more and more are getting the point that democratic self-governance is learning how to give a little to get a little, learning when to bend and when to stand.]

    Observers see unity against Donald Trump

    Sat 9 Jun 2018 09.55 EDT First published on Sat 9 Jun 2018 06.00 EDT

    Kara Eastman, a progressive who campaigned on a “Medicare for all” healthcare system and free college, stunned Washington Democrats last month when she beat Brad Ashford, a moderate former congressman backed by the party, in the primary for a Nebraska House race. Her upset victory was cheered as a resounding win for the activist left – and a repudiation of centrist politics.

    But Eastman says that’s not how Democrats in Omaha viewed the race.

    “People were just excited to have someone stand up for their values,” Eastman said. “While those values are tagged as progressive, I think people here see it as common sense.”

    In the aftermath of the 2016 election, the rivalry between supporters of Hillary Clinton and those of Bernie Sanders consumed the debate over the future of a party still shell-shocked by defeat. The ideological tug-of-war was a defining feature of the contest to lead the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and it animated a number of political races last year.

    But as the 2018 midterm primaries play out across the country, the “civil war” that once threatened to undermine Democrats’ path to power appears to be little more than a skirmish in the all-consuming battle they are waging against Trump. That fight has produced a historic number of Democratic female candidates and set the stage for what analysts believe could be a “wave” election for the party in November.

    “Democrats remember how miserable they felt on election night and how they have felt every day since then,” said Larry Sabato, the director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics. “That feeling – ‘the Trump effect’ – is helping to cap the volcano. Were it not for Trump, however, I think the volcano of Democratic fractiousness would erupt all over the nation.”

    He added: “I do think Democrats are relearning that old lesson that a bird cannot fly on one wing, and neither can a party.”

    Primary contests so far this year have produced a string of victories for both wings of the Democratic party. Progressives notched successes in Pennsylvania, Nebraska and Idaho while more establishment-friendly candidates celebrated wins in Illinois, Texas and California..

    Yet many races do not fit neatly into the centrist-v-progressive construct. In the Georgia Democratic primary for the governorship, Stacey Abrams, a progressive former state house leader, won the race with support from both Clinton and Sanders. On the same night, Amy McGrath, a former marine fighter pilot and first-time candidate, defeated Jim Gray, the mayor of Lexington, who the party had believed would be a stronger candidate in Kentucky.

    “There may be something much simpler and more powerful than ideology at work here,” David Wasserman, a political analyst at the non-partisan Cook Political Report, wrote recently: “Democratic primary voters’ intense desire to nominate women in 2018.”

    To be sure, there are certain issues and races that have plunged the party back into the bitterness of 2016 . The DNC’s “unity reform commission”, which was established to heal the divide between supporters of Clinton and Sanders, is still wrangling over the role of superdelegates in the party’s primary system.

    And in New York, tensions flared when the DNC chair, Tom Perez, intervened in the gubernatorial race to endorse Governor Andrew Cuomo against the insurgent candidate – the actor and progressive favorite Cynthia Nixon.

    During a live interview with the Washington Post this week, Sanders said Perez’s endorsement of Cuomo was “absolutely” a mistake and “not what the DNC chair should be doing”.

    Democratic party officials have intervened in certain congressional races to help the candidate they believe has the best chance of winning the general election succeed in a crowded primary contest. The strategy, which drew progressive backlash in Texas, paid off this week in California, where a glut of candidates threatened to split the share of Democratic voters and produce all-Republican ballots in November under the state’s “jungle primary” system.

    In order to win back the House, the Democratic party must be willing to intervene in primary races as it did in California, says Elaine Kamarck, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institutution and member of the DNC.

    “The path to a Democratic majority does not run through deep blue districts. The path runs through purple and slightly red districts,” Kamarck said, adding: “The irony here is that the party must win in places where the progressive message doesn’t work as well in order to get close to a place where you can have a progressive agenda.”

    The tug of the party’s progressive wing didn’t begin with Sanders’s entrance into the 2016 presidential race.But Stephanie Taylor, the co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, credits him with helping to bring the left’s economic populist agenda into the mainstream.

    Ideas like a European-style healthcare system, once dismissed as magical thinking, now has the support of more than half of House Democratic lawmakers and one-third of the Senate caucus.

    “That the question around healthcare is no longer ‘Should we fix the Affordable Care Act?’ but ‘What is the best way to get to universal healthcare?’ is a radical departure from where we were,” Taylor said.

    According to an analysis by Brookings, 42% of non-incumbent Democratic candidates label themselves progressives, compared with just 14% in 2014 and 13% in 2016.

    Among them is Eastman. She faces an uphill battle to oust the Republican incumbent, Don Bacon, in the conservative-leaning district.

    “I’m running because I feel a sense of desperation in the country and I think a lot of people feel similarly,” Eastman said.

    “And,” she added, “we learned from 2016 that people are willing to take a bet on political outsiders.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...trump-midterms

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Bernie Sanders? I'd prefer Ed Sanders for some REAL action!

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    Bernie Sanders? I'd prefer Ed Sanders for some REAL action!

    Which one?

    The American poet from the Fugs, or the Brit actor from Sweeney Todd?

    Doesn't really matter. You have no say in the matter.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    If Sanders wants to run again for President as a Democrat, maybe he should be a Democrat.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Makes a mockery of the 'democratic' part of their name, but I guess they are attempting to consolidate their voters.
    I'm not sure your primary process and voluntary voting helps. Oddly though it would be perfect for a proportional representation style of government.

    I reckon that the Dems may stuff this one up, because if both sides are on the nose then Donald's rusted ons will swing it for him again.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    From what I read, the dem leadership is doing this in lieu of eliminating the super delegates who are not elected but can swing the nomination greatly, even against the wishes of the voters of their own states. The purpose of both the super delegates, and this new measure, is to prevent Stalking Horses, i.e., someone getting the dem nomination who is not really a democrat. (Like Trump winning over the mainstream in the republican parties, someone who does signify red values in some issues, but not others, such as trade.) My question is, what is a democrat? Because dems in recent years, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, et al, have cozied up to the banks and large corporations to make them a lot less distinguishable from their republican opponents. Bernie Sanders was different. So I understand the rationale of this, but in reality, the optics are really poor. I don't think Bernie will run again for president, but we need someone of his integrity and caring for everyday people.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    "…...but we need someone of his integrity and caring for everyday people"

    Good luck with that, but you may be looking in the wrong place, if indeed there is a right place for a viable candidate with such concerns.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    From the Fugs, especially his rants on Coca Cola Douche and CIA Man. Nothing like a dose of political reality...


    BRING IT ON!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    Which one?

    The American poet from the Fugs, or the Brit actor from Sweeney Todd?

    Doesn't really matter. You have no say in the matter.
    Last edited by purri; 06-11-2018 at 01:59 AM.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Bernie has already announced that he's running for the senate next campaign. I do love the Reps worrying about the Dems though, it's kinda cute.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    I think Bernie is a very effective Senator and representative for his state. Where his fierce independence from any party organization is a local advantage.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    If Sanders wants to run again for President as a Democrat, maybe he should be a Democrat.
    Iíve had that same argument with Sanders supporters many times. Why he expected to be welcomed with open arms and treated with scrupulous fairness is beyond me. He has had 40 years to join the Democrats, and never has. Maybe he should chalange 45 for the Republican nomination next time? Iím sure they would treat him very well.

    Tom

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post

    Doesn't really matter. You have no say in the matter.
    Donn, why have you got such a cob on these days? You are starting to sound like an argumentative contentious {redacted} grump..
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Bernie stuck it to the Democrats.

    While claiming, not bragging, that he NEVER campaigns negatively, he is constantly attacking Hillary for those speeches, which were quite legal.

    When she got the numbers, he was very slow to support her, as compared to how quickly she, in '08, threw her support behind Obama.

    In fact, I don't think I ever heard Bernie fully support Hillary. I did hear him promise to do all the could to prevent Trump from winning, but that's not at all the same thing as doing all he could to help her win.

    Bernie has shown a considerable lack of integrity, and a great deal of poor sportsmanship.

    I have no idea what he supports that the Democrats don't also support. They are for higher wages, universal healthcare, affordable college, etc.

    Seems he wants them to support him but he will not reciprocate.

    HE HELPED ELECT TRUMP PERIOD
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    that's some very selective thinking.

    Should candidates only be challenged on illegal actions? I think we want the bar set a bit higher than that, no?

    Of course he was slow to support her, she got the numbers via a rigged system. Of course she was quick to support obama, she wanted a cabinet position.

    Had bernie fully supported hillary, he would have lost all credibility. He supports principles, not candidates.
    Also, this notion that Candidate A's supporters would pivot and support Candidate B just because A said so... ugh. It was hillary's task to win those voters over, not bernie's task to hand them over.

    I personally do not think Bernie is a viable candidate in 2020 at all, his window has closed, but painting him as the villain isn't going to get us anywhere.
    No adversary is worse than bad advice.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Bernie has already announced that he's running for the senate next campaign. I do love the Reps worrying about the Dems though, it's kinda cute.
    I guess so.

    In a concern-troll sort of way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    that's some very selective thinking.

    Should candidates only be challenged on illegal actions? I think we want the bar set a bit higher than that, no?

    Of course he was slow to support her, she got the numbers via a rigged system. Of course she was quick to support obama, she wanted a cabinet position.

    Had bernie fully supported hillary, he would have lost all credibility. He supports principles, not candidates.
    Also, this notion that Candidate A's supporters would pivot and support Candidate B just because A said so... ugh. It was hillary's task to win those voters over, not bernie's task to hand them over.

    I personally do not think Bernie is a viable candidate in 2020 at all, his window has closed, but painting him as the villain isn't going to get us anywhere.
    Sooooo . . . We got Trump to preserve Sanders' credibility.

    That's awesome.

    Those who support principles over candidates lose elections. That's because you can't vote for a principle.
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    To assert that we got trump to perserve Sanders' credibility implies that the election was in some significant part about Sanders.
    Perhaps my memory is flawed, but I really don't remember it that way.
    No adversary is worse than bad advice.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I guess so.

    In a concern-troll sort of way.



    Sooooo . . . We got Trump to preserve Sanders' credibility.

    That's awesome.

    Those who support principles over candidates lose elections. That's because you can't vote for a principle.
    I have to disagree. Yes, Bernie affected the election hugely. I do not believe he "elected Trump". I believe the arrogance & focus of the Clinton campaign & the DNC elected him. If they'd paid any attention, they'd have seen that there were a lot of Dems & Independents who supported the principles that Bernie espoused. They could have 1) spoken to those principles in a meaningful way & 2) paid just a little attention to voters in rural areas. Instead, they took the "our way is the only way" approach & blew it.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    To assert that we got trump to perserve Sanders' credibility implies that the election was in some significant part about Sanders.
    Perhaps my memory is flawed, but I really don't remember it that way.
    It was your assertion.

    Also, you assert that it's not Sanders' job to lend his support to Hillary, but Hillary's job to win that support.

    My assertion?

    Therefore Trump.

    Principles NEVER won an election, nor will they ever.

    You can't vote for a principle, only a candidate.

    If Sanders hadn't got all butt-hurt and had gone ahead to throw his unqualified support behind Hillary, she would VERY likely be President.

    Maybe not some progressive panacea of a President, but a SANE President with the interests of the US foremost.

    The whole 'Sanders was robbed' thing rings hollow.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I have to disagree. Yes, Bernie affected the election hugely. I do not believe he "elected Trump". I believe the arrogance & focus of the Clinton campaign & the DNC elected him. If they'd paid any attention, they'd have seen that there were a lot of Dems & Independents who supported the principles that Bernie espoused. They could have 1) spoken to those principles in a meaningful way & 2) paid just a little attention to voters in rural areas. Instead, they took the "our way is the only way" approach & blew it.
    No doubt.

    The fact that Bernie did NOT hand Hillary his support is a different issue.

    He did not.

    Therefore Trump.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    No doubt.

    The fact that Bernie did NOT hand Hillary his support is a different issue.

    He did not.

    Therefore Trump.
    Nope. Please reread my last post.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    It was your assertion.
    Perhaps I was unclear.
    I do not assert that there is any connection at all between trump's victory and sanders' lack of support for hillary.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Also, you assert that it's not Sanders' job to lend his support to Hillary, but Hillary's job to win that support.
    No, I do not.
    It was hillary's job to win the support of the "sanders voters". The Voters.
    Am I, a bernie-supporter, going to vote for hillary because bernie says I should?
    Whether she ever got bernie's support is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    If Sanders hadn't got all butt-hurt and had gone ahead to throw his unqualified support behind Hillary, she would VERY likely be President.
    Perhaps.
    If Obama had better helped mobilize black voters....
    If not for russian interference....
    If not for the nonsensical electoral college...
    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    The whole 'Sanders was robbed' thing rings hollow.
    I dunno about "hollow". There is certainly some truth to it, but it's just as certainly irrelevant to 2020.
    Bernie, IMHO, is irrelevant to 2020.
    No adversary is worse than bad advice.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    No doubt.

    The fact that Bernie did NOT hand Hillary his support is a different issue.

    He did not.

    Therefore Trump.
    Trump did not win by default, he won on the issues, hillary, bernie captain kangaroo, , did not matter who the dems pushed foward, No dem could overcome obamas failures.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Trump did not win by default, he won on the issues, hillary, bernie captain kangaroo, , did not matter who the dems pushed foward, No dem could overcome obamas failures.
    Um - he won the Electoral College - he lost the popular vote.
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    ...
    I dunno about "hollow". There is certainly some truth to it, but it's just as certainly irrelevant to 2020.
    Bernie, IMHO, is irrelevant to 2020.
    Bernie is running for senate - so I don't believe he'll be running for president. However, I do not believe is is irrelevant to 2020. He will be actively campaigning for progressive candidates across the US & RepresentUS, even if a little confused these days, will be working similarly + pushing for progressive ideas in the campaign.

    Bernie - for all his being an oddball from a tiny little state - still has some clout nationally.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Um - he won the Electoral College - he lost the popular vote.
    Did the russkies take that one?

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    Perhaps I was unclear.
    I do not assert that there is any connection at all between trump's victory and sanders' lack of support for hillary.



    No, I do not.
    It was hillary's job to win the support of the "sanders voters". The Voters.
    Am I, a bernie-supporter, going to vote for hillary because bernie says I should?
    Whether she ever got bernie's support is irrelevant.


    Perhaps.
    If Obama had better helped mobilize black voters....
    If not for russian interference....
    If not for the nonsensical electoral college...


    I dunno about "hollow". There is certainly some truth to it, but it's just as certainly irrelevant to 2020.
    Bernie, IMHO, is irrelevant to 2020.
    You ignore harsh electoral reality.

    No principle ever won an election.

    You said
    Had bernie fully supported hillary, he would have lost all credibility. He supports principles, not candidates.
    How are you trying to justify this?

    The DIRECT IMPLICATION of this statement is that Bernie's credibility is more important than winning the election.

    That Bernie's principles prevented him from backing Hillary to the hilt, and then you roll out THIS one!
    also, this notion that Candidate A's supporters would pivot and support Candidate B just because A said so... ugh. It was hillary's task to win those voters over, not bernie's task to hand them over.
    If Bernie had not had his precious 'principles' wedged so firmly up his hooha, he could have done EXACTLY that, and Hillary would very likely have won the election.

    Principles never won an election.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Bernie has already announced that he's running for the senate next campaign. I do love the Reps worrying about the Dems though, it's kinda cute.
    Sure is. In a smarmy, underhanded, disingenuous way.
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Donn, why have you got such a cob on these days? You are starting to sound like an argumentative contentious {redacted} grump..
    Starting to... now THAT'S funny!
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by genglandoh
    The DNC should be trying to win over Sanders supporters.
    Instead they are making decisions to alienate Sanders supporters.
    I don't know... judging by the Bilge posts it seems a lot of Sanders-for-POTUS boosters are something other than Democrats.
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I have to disagree. Yes, Bernie affected the election hugely. I do not believe he "elected Trump". I believe the arrogance & focus of the Clinton campaign & the DNC elected him. If they'd paid any attention, they'd have seen that there were a lot of Dems & Independents who supported the principles that Bernie espoused. They could have 1) spoken to those principles in a meaningful way & 2) paid just a little attention to voters in rural areas. Instead, they took the "our way is the only way" approach & blew it.
    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag;5587683[SIZE=7
    ]

    No doubt.
    [/SIZE]
    The fact that Bernie did NOT hand Hillary his support is a different issue.

    He did not.

    Therefore Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Nope. Please reread my last post.
    Please re-read my response to that post.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    I don't know... judging by the Bilge posts it seems a lot of Sanders-for-POTUS boosters are something other than Democrats.
    He gets (for senate) the vast majority of Dem votes here + many independents + quite a few Reps. He won his last campaign with somewhere around 85% of the vote.
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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Please re-read my response to that post.
    You said:

    Also, you assert that it's not Sanders' job to lend his support to Hillary, but Hillary's job to win that support.

    My assertion?

    Therefore Trump.
    So - you agree that it was HRC that blew it. Cool.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    You said:

    Also, you assert that it's not Sanders' job to lend his support to Hillary, but Hillary's job to win that support.

    My assertion?

    Therefore Trump.
    So - you agree that it was HRC that blew it. Cool.
    Yeah. When you say
    I believe the arrogance & focus of the Clinton campaign & the DNC elected him. If they'd paid any attention, they'd have seen that there were a lot of Dems & Independents who supported the principles that Bernie espoused. They could have 1) spoken to those principles in a meaningful way & 2) paid just a little attention to voters in rural areas. Instead, they took the "our way is the only way" approach & blew it.
    And I respond
    No doubt.
    that's what that means.

    I also said that Bernie could have thrown his enthusiastic support behind Hillary and turned the election in the direction of sanity.

    Principles never won an election.

    Ever.

    Votes win elections, and Bernie was a slacker in delivering the votes he controlled to Hillary.

    If he were such a progressive genius, he would have seen that he could tell Hillary she would have his support, but she had to adopt a more progressive stance.

    Wheelin' an' dealin'.

    Trump is a disaster.

    The US economy, world position and even credit will never be the same.

    EVER.

    Still, he may be the [redacted] needed to galvanize the progressive movement to get out the vote and crush these anti-American bursteds once and for all.

    Hows THAT for a silver lining?

    Rattling the teacups.

  35. #35
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    Nov 2008
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    24,243

    Default Re: The DNC is sticking it to Sanders again

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Votes win elections, and Bernie was a slacker in delivering the votes he controlled to Hillary.
    So Bernie was derelict in his duty as a candidate running under the Democratic banner.

    That's part of the deal.

    You get through the primaries, and the loser pledges his support to the winner, so that the Party is solid going in to the election.

    Bernie didn't do that.

    He was luke-warm at best.

    He defaulted on the implicit agreement.

    He reneged.

    He sold out the US for his whiny little ego and his so-called 'integrity'.

    I'm sure he's a great Senator. I'd love it if he were a Texas Senator, but he dropped the ball on that one. Bigly.
    Rattling the teacups.

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