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Thread: Ceiling over rivets?

  1. #1
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    Default Ceiling over rivets?

    This week I've been doing a lot of sanding and painting getting Marianita ready for another season, an activity that I find lets me ponder other things as I go along. The ponder for the last few days has been about traditional plank-on-frame boats with steam bent frames and copper rivets and how one goes about installing a ceiling in such a craft. Or maybe you don't? The assortment of books I have kicking around my library are silent on melding the two.

    The issue I am working my head around is how to get the ceiling to lay nice and flat against the frames when the roves are creating a bunch of bumps that need to be worked around. Lots of work to countersink for each one. But after backing out all those planks to fit the frames maybe it doesn't seem like that much work? I feel like I am missing something obvious.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Normally you don't.
    If you want to then mark every rove with a transferring colour like wet paint or lipstick, press the ceiling plank into place, and then scoop out a recess with a gouge to clear the rove. Does not have to be neat as it is hidden.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    I have often wondered the same thing. I look forward to knowledgable replies.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    It is not normally a problem as most boats are timbered out with turned nails like ACB's 14
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    I think that rivets are not used when the plans call for ceiling.

    If you're looking to do so perhaps it will be easier to add spacer blocks between the rivets then bend another rib over them to fasten the ceiling to. That would make some sections of some ribs stiffer than the rest but that might not matter.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    I think that rivets are not used when the plans call for ceiling.
    The 43' Alden schooner Heart's Desire was re-hulled in the... '80s? When she was re-hulled, she was built iroko on oak, copper rivet fastened. She was the first boat larger than a skiff I had encountered who was rivet fastened. I clearly remember that she did have ceiling, but I didn't know enough to even think to check how it was accomplished.

    Alex

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Australian built boats are usually built with steam bent frames and copper rivets over roves. Indeed to us antipodeans, the practice of fastening planks with screws seems somewhat unusual. My boat is built thus and has ceiling. I'll see if I have a photo. But even if I do it won't show the treatment of the back of the ceiling battens.

    Here we are. This is up in the focsle.
    image.jpg
    Last edited by Phil Y; 06-09-2018 at 09:02 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Part of the answer hinges on your motivation for considering the ceiling. What are you aiming for?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    As Nick said, you scoop out the back of the ceiling for each rivet ( can be done with a rotary burr in a drill).
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    I have done it with a ball bit in a Dremmel Grinder. I rub a bit of soft pencil lead on the nail tip and place the ceiling strip in place and pound with the heel of my hand or a rubber mallet to see where to relieve the ceiling. Often takes two to tango.
    Jay

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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Sounds like scooping out a bit of wood for each rove is the way to go. No wonder it takes so long to build a boat, at least when I do a project like this I don't have to charge myself for labor.

    This is part of a long-term scheme I have to build a boat in the traditional way to single-hand my way around the San Juans and Inside Passage in post-retirement bliss. Something in the 24'-28' range. I've a few things, like a house to build first, but this "next boat" occupies a fair amount of head space right now.
    Steve

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    R.D Culler

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    Sounds like scooping out a bit of wood for each rove is the way to go. No wonder it takes so long to build a boat, at least when I do a project like this I don't have to charge myself for labor.

    This is part of a long-term scheme I have to build a boat in the traditional way to single-hand my way around the San Juans and Inside Passage in post-retirement bliss. Something in the 24'-28' range. I've a few things, like a house to build first, but this "next boat" occupies a fair amount of head space right now.
    If you are planning a new build rather than cieling an existing hull, then hook or turn the nails into the timbers.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Clench nailing eh? I hadn't even considered that, it isn't a very popular technique around here.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    Clench nailing eh? I hadn't even considered that, it isn't a very popular technique around here.
    It is so much quicker when timbering out with steamed timbers. Driving, turning and hooking in one smooth motion. The soft steamed timbers take the hook easily.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    It is so much quicker when timbering out with steamed timbers. Driving, turning and hooking in one smooth motion. The soft steamed timbers take the hook easily.
    Clench nailing has always been a small-boat technique, in my mind --not to say that's correct, just that it's how I think of it. Dinghies and dories are clench-nailed. Would you put an upper size limit on clench nailing?

    Alex

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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    I was taught that clench nailing is for rowing craft, and rivets and roves for sailing craft.
    Very different stresses.

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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    Clench nailing has always been a small-boat technique, in my mind --not to say that's correct, just that it's how I think of it. Dinghies and dories are clench-nailed. Would you put an upper size limit on clench nailing?

    Alex

    Hmmm, ....... sort of my thought too. Now that it is mentioned, how large is practical for clench nailing?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Ceiling over rivets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pitsligo View Post
    Clench nailing has always been a small-boat technique, in my mind --not to say that's correct, just that it's how I think of it. Dinghies and dories are clench-nailed. Would you put an upper size limit on clench nailing?

    Alex
    Clinker built ships lifeboats were timbered out that way as were/are Hastings luggers.


    and I think that these big Deal luggers were as well
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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