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Thread: Sliding seat advise

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    St. Paul, MN
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    Default Sliding seat advise

    Please forgive me for posting a wooden boat adjacent topic. Iím looking for advice on converting a canoe to sliding rowing. I have a fair bit of experience in canoes and fixed seat rowing but none with sliding seats. There are canoe racks on the Mississippi near my house. At some point Iíd like to to build Ken Bassetís Firefly but for the moment I need something I can leave outside without worrying it will be messed with.

    In the spirit of the uglier the better, I came across this.
    https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/c...562447128.html

    Iím hoping the reserve buoyancy will keep it from hobby horsing badly. I also happen to have a little 2 horse Evinrude that would be fun to throw on from time to time. Iím not looking for speed just a way to get some exercise on the water. The only real requirement is being able to fight a 1.5 knot currant and the occasional head winds.


    Iím planning on making the rowing rig and oars and doing a nice job of it so I can use some of it on a Firefly when I build one.

    What Iím wondering is if my plan makes any sense to those with more experience. Would I be better off making a sliding outrigger and using a more traditional canoe? Iím a furniture maker and museum exhibit fabricator so I have a shop and experience in wood and composites and metal fabricators I work with that could make the things I canít.

    Any advise would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia - USA
    Posts
    2,021

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    That boat will work fine, though you'll want to sit further forward than one would think, so as to get the transom out of the water when rowing. The transom will create a lot of drag, as that hull shape is meant for motoring, not rowing. You will likely get a good workout rowing her, in any case.
    You may need to add a skeg, but that salient keel might be enough.

    If you scroll down here: gentrycustomboats.com/RUTHpage.html you can see a few home-built sliding seat rigs. latanzorowingparts.com/ has what you need, minus the wing. You might also check out Angus Rowboats for a kit or a better idea how to fashion your own. angusrowboats.com/pages/sliding-seat


    Good luck!
    Dave

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,125

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    A sliding rigger will effectively eliminate hobby horsing, although with that big wide stern a sliding seat might not cause much movement.
    However, to get the hobby horsing eliminated with a sliding seat, you will have to have the stern in the water at least a little.
    A sliding seat means that your entire body (minus your legs from knee down) is moving 2+ feet - rocking the boat. On a 200# man that might mean 160# moving.
    A sliding rigger means that only your legs + the rigger and oars is moving 2+ feet - reducing rocking (hobby horsing). Same guy might mean only 50# moving.

    Those weights are just a "guestimate".

    IMHO a typical canoe will be faster, easier to buck the wind and current with a sliding rigger.

    Here is a link to one way to build the sliding rigger. http://www.rowvirusboats.com/rowboard/index.html
    Don't be scared of the cost, I built 2 of them for about $100 each.
    There use to be a better picture of these but this web site now makes it difficult or impossible to find.
    Last edited by upchurchmr; 06-02-2018 at 04:13 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
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    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    Thank you for your advise and the links. I was planning on having to do some experimenting with weight and rigging placement. I wasn’t sure if I needed a skeg or not. I was thinking if need be I could clamp a fixed one the transom.

    Seeing your site made me drop my idea entirely and order plans for Ruth. I’ve been curious about sof for years but never thought about it for a sculling boat. The light weight means car topping will be easier than getting that 100# square stern off the rack and to the water. I think it might be less work building it than getting the canoe into shape. In any case it will be more pleasant to build and use. I’ve had enough grinding epoxy with work and after building a stitch and glue dinghy. I’m excited to get started.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
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    23

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    Thanks for you post. The added complexity of the sliding riggers put me off a bit. The weight of the square stern and fat rear end makes me think it might stay reasonably flat.
    Coming here made me come to senses and decide to build from scratch. Better to build something that excites you than grind away on a fiberglass tub.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,125

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    The sliding rigger is actually simple.
    The only complexity is getting the wheels in line.
    PM me if you would like some pictures and comments.
    It would work easily with Dave Gentry's Ruth, which I also admire.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Padanaram, MA USA
    Posts
    9,422

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    I have a ken Bassett 'Liz' which is very close to the Firefly in shape. It has a Piantedosi drop-in sliding seat rigger.
    The boat weighs, with rigger, about 85# and I weigh 200+. I've felt that the weight transfer was excessive and that a sliding rigger would have been a better idea.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    23,413

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    Ben Fuller here has a simpler, shorter, sliding seat design that will be better suited to a canoe: https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...-sliding-seat/
    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Blue Marble 3rd Rock From Sun
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    1,302

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    Quote Originally Posted by Jfitzger View Post
    Please forgive me for posting a wooden boat adjacent topic. Iím looking for advice on converting a canoe to sliding rowing. I have a fair bit of experience in canoes and fixed seat rowing but none with sliding seats. There are canoe racks on the Mississippi near my house. At some point Iíd like to to build Ken Bassetís Firefly but for the moment I need something I can leave outside without worrying it will be messed with.

    In the spirit of the uglier the better, I came across this.
    https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/c...562447128.html

    Iím hoping the reserve buoyancy will keep it from hobby horsing badly. I also happen to have a little 2 horse Evinrude that would be fun to throw on from time to time. Iím not looking for speed just a way to get some exercise on the water. The only real requirement is being able to fight a 1.5 knot currant and the occasional head winds.


    Iím planning on making the rowing rig and oars and doing a nice job of it so I can use some of it on a Firefly when I build one.

    What Iím wondering is if my plan makes any sense to those with more experience. Would I be better off making a sliding outrigger and using a more traditional canoe? Iím a furniture maker and museum exhibit fabricator so I have a shop and experience in wood and composites and metal fabricators I work with that could make the things I canít.

    Any advise would be appreciated.
    Thanks for bringing this up. I'm looking to build a sliding rig too.



    Quote Originally Posted by DGentry View Post
    That boat will work fine, though you'll want to sit further forward than one would think, so as to get the transom out of the water when rowing. The transom will create a lot of drag, as that hull shape is meant for motoring, not rowing. You will likely get a good workout rowing her, in any case.
    You may need to add a skeg, but that salient keel might be enough.

    If you scroll down here: gentrycustomboats.com/RUTHpage.html you can see a few home-built sliding seat rigs. latanzorowingparts.com/ has what you need, minus the wing. You might also check out Angus Rowboats for a kit or a better idea how to fashion your own. angusrowboats.com/pages/sliding-seat


    Good luck!
    Dave
    That's good info. Thanks for sharing.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    264

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    FYI,

    I put a sliding seat and a forward-facing-rowing-system in a boat I built, mostly for the fun of tinkering. It was an experiment. I discovered a way to take something as simple as rowing a boat and make it ridiculously complex. Rube Goldberg would be proud of me.

    Read more at https://seascull.blogspot.com/2014/01/built-nemah.html


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Blue Marble 3rd Rock From Sun
    Posts
    1,302

    Default Re: Sliding seat advise

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo 'Poxy View Post
    FYI,

    I put a sliding seat and a forward-facing-rowing-system in a boat I built, mostly for the fun of tinkering. It was an experiment. I discovered a way to take something as simple as rowing a boat and make it ridiculously complex. Rube Goldberg would be proud of me.

    Read more at https://seascull.blogspot.com/2014/01/built-nemah.html

    That is a complicated set up in my eye.

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