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Thread: Seil 18

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Joplin MO, USA
    Posts
    6

    Default Seil 18

    I've been looking for a boat that:
    1- Can be built by a beginner, as my only previous experience is a strip canoe.
    2- Prefer to learn glued lap ply as it looks like the logical next step.
    3- Big enough for 2 adults and a teenager to fish from.
    4- Able to be run with a small outboard in case sailing doesn't work out, and maybe a well or storage for the outboard when not in use.
    5- Rowing will be a last resort except for maneuvering during fishing or loading.
    6- Something safe enough to learn to sail in. "enough beam, built in buoyancy, This particular design looks to be boom-less."
    7- Easy to rig, and take down for moving from the house to the local lakes.
    8- Fairly shallow draft and able to be beached. I've got canoes for when I'm feeling to adventurous.
    9- I really like that the floorboards can be moved up to the thwarts for sleeping.

    This design looks to check many boxes. But I can't find much information or feedback on it. Did find a lot of pictures of them being built in France and the Netherlands.
    Anybody here know anything about the design that might be interesting to someone considering the build?
    Anybody have experience with Francois Vivier's plans and how detailed they are?
    Website says you have to purchase plans (250) and patterns (300) totaling 550.00, Seems steep, but something I'm willing to pay up front if the plans are thorough and give me the best chance of success.
    Thanks for and help and opinions, Lonnie.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    28,131

    Default Re: Seil 18

    No personal experience but hard to imagine you'd go wrong with a Vivier design and plans. But there are other Norwegian style prams out there. Here's one for a tenth the cost. Stitch and glue, not lap, but quite similar in dimensions

    http://boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=12 Lots of pics at the link.

    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    se pa (Bristol PA)
    Posts
    2,991

    Default Re: Seil 18

    It's a dory, seems to me a tent onshore would be more comfortable. Suggestion, Learn to sail on a rented or friends boat. then decide what you will build. Looking for the whole list in one boat can be disappointing.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Providence, RI USA
    Posts
    1,346

    Default Re: Seil 18

    Seil looks like a good choice. Vivier's instructions and plans are very thorough, in addition, he responds to e-mail queries in a few days usually. The patterns are probably worth it, but spiling that few planks might be enjoyable too. I spiled the planks on my Whilly Boat (first build) no problem. I bought the patterns for my Ilur from M. Vivier. That was not an easy planking job even with patterns, but he says Seil is more straightforward.

    I think you should do it!

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    558

    Default Re: Seil 18

    I know them well, having made a couple of sails for them. I think the extra money for a precut kit is very well spent. As a sailmaker usually have my sails cnc done and I would use it for my next boat as well. Only drawback is that you don't make the mistakes that you can learn from. I will try to find some pictures.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Seil 18

    I've been interested in this design for years and I downloaded the study plans some time ago. The building jig looks really convenient, but you will waste a lot of wood building it. The cost of the plans and patterns is a big discouragement to American builders. The overall concept of the design seems really well thought-out. I think they've been fairly popular in France for a reason.

    Have any been built here?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern Europe
    Posts
    9,237

    Default Re: Seil 18

    I have plans for the DK Pram and can reccommend them as having all the details even a first timer will need, though not full size patterns, all the plank expansions are done,you just need to plot them out on full sheets of ply. The fit out inside is a bit different, but could, withing reason be adapted. Mortens plans are very reasonably priced. I built a modified version of his DK18 3 years ago and its still in use. I do like Seil, i do not understand Viviers pricing of patterns and plans seperately if they are only sold together,most odd.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    558

    Default Re: Seil 18

    Another difference is weight: A Le Seil is 270kg, the DK 17 about half that weight. When sailing many people find the heavier boat more reassuring, but its harder to get out of the water and on the trailer.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    558

    Default Re: Seil 18

    P8120377.jpgP8120359.jpgP8120385.jpgP8200392.jpg
    Two Le Seil boats from Dutch builder Ben Ullings. The colored sail was for a couple that wanted to go to Venice for the VogaLonga and the Vela Raid. See the sign on the boat. They painted the sail to blend in with the natives. I made the sail in white Supercruise 5.4 oz and they painted it with an acrylic type paint.
    The red boat was Bens own boat with a balanced lug to make handling easier. You can see the regulation line going from the underside of the yard, around the mast back to a miniblock at underside yard to make trimming the yard possible. You can see the crease from yardtop down that illustrates how it works. I made the sail in Supercruise 5.4 oz Altair with short leach battens

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,351

    Default Re: Seil 18

    Tough to go wrong with this beauty


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    558

    Default Re: Seil 18

    I hope to do a thread on La Semaine du Golfe 2017 soon. Scarlett was there too in another edition. Lots of very nice sail and oar boats, many Vivier designs.
    www.oarandsail.nl

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dorset, UK
    Posts
    862

    Default Re: Seil 18





    From the lines that I've studied, the forward contruction of a standard round bilge pram leads to blunt waterline entry. While that's unavoidable and infact favourable for a 9ft harbour pram yachts tender, in the larger sizes if you look at most prams you will see a more significant bow wave at most speeds: the wider entry angle is unable to enable laminar flow even over the forward parts of the hull. A narrower waterline entry angle is more efficient and achieved with a 'modified' pram or standard constuction method.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 06-04-2018 at 11:03 AM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    28,131

    Default Re: Seil 18

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post

    From the lines that I've studied, the forward contruction of a standard round bilge pram leads to blunt waterline entry. While that's unavoidable and infact favourable for a 9ft harbour pram yachts tender, in the larger sizes if you look at most prams you will see a more significant bow wave at most speeds: the wider entry angle is unable to enable laminar flow even over the forward parts of the hull. A narrower waterline entry angle is more efficient and achieved with a 'modified' pram or standard constuction method.
    Time to stretch Scamp?

    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Shore, Massachusetts
    Posts
    8,636

    Default Re: Seil 18

    Quote Originally Posted by callsign222 View Post
    Tough to go wrong with this beauty

    Oh my what a BBP! (big beautiful pram)

    You also might consider a dory, Swampscott or Banks type both excellent fishing platforms... Clint Chase has a nice set of lines for sale "D Street Dory" and John Gardner's "The Dory Book" (available from our host WB) is jam packed with ancient line sets that could serve your purposes admirably.

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