Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 51

Thread: Infrastructure and the GOP

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    30,620

    Default Infrastructure and the GOP

    Anyone have any thoughts as to why the GOP hasn't shown any concern about our deteriorating infrastructure or a desire to actually modernize it?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    51,078

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Anyone have any thoughts as to why the GOP hasn't shown any concern about our deteriorating infrastructure or a desire to actually modernize it?
    Because they have reached the stage in the swing toward the nihilism of pure laissez-faire economics where the mandate is 'rape the treasury... get it before everything collapses'. Not 'rebuild the nation in a careful responsible manner'. Acton.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    10,820

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Why make it easier to drive to the abortion clinics and welfare offices.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sharon, MA
    Posts
    20,864

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Anyone have any thoughts as to why the GOP hasn't shown any concern about our deteriorating infrastructure or a desire to actually modernize it?
    They're ignoring it, because it doesn't accrue to the benefit of large corporations, in the short term.

    In the long term, of course, the nation will be poorer for it.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Caribbean cliff edge
    Posts
    19,034

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Anyone have any thoughts as to why the GOP hasn't shown any concern about our deteriorating infrastructure or a desire to actually modernize it?
    Surely issuing repair/replacement project contracts would benefit the GOP companies?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    9,835

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    I swear I heard Trump say a few months ago that he was going to "fix America's infrastructure" so he could "make America great again". Was he nothing but a god dammed liar?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    huntsville, al, usa
    Posts
    3,105

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    "never trump!"
    "obfuscate on all fronts!"
    "#resist"


    and now it's "why isn't he doing infrastructure stuff?" .... yall some real morons sometimes.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Anyone have any thoughts as to why the GOP hasn't shown any concern about our deteriorating infrastructure or a desire to actually modernize it?
    It will cost money. Finding and allocating funds to do it comes up against the reality of reduced gov’t revenue through tax cuts. Shifting more costs to the states won’t work for some states. AND the most common method for paying for transportation infrastructure IS FUEL TAXES. Which the GOP has refused to raise to even match inflation since 1993.

    So, the GOP solution is to make the grandkids pay for it now with their money through deficit spending.

    Sticking it to the kids cuz they can’t do anything about it and we’ll be dead.
    Last edited by LeeG; 05-15-2018 at 05:19 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Gabriola, BC
    Posts
    1,562

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Nah, They just want to run it all in to the ground, so they can privatize it at Fire sale prices.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    51,913

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Tollways and private bridges? Maintenance contracts that give those privileges on public infrastructure to the contractor?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    17,602

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Tollways and private bridges? Maintenance contracts that give those privileges on public infrastructure to the contractor?
    Privatization = move from the public sector to the patronage sector.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,320

    Default

    Our nfrasyructure problems are overstated. I drive throughout Texas, once a year make a week up to Nebraska and Iowa, went to Alabama a couple of years ago. Drive through Boston, Rhode Island, and Connecticut last summer. Roads are good everywhere, except Oklahoma, but that's to be expected.
    Around here, we have one freeway in need of repair, which is being worked on, just taking too long. All the major interchanges have been rebuilt into nothing short of engineering Marvel's compared to how they were done 30 years ago.

    Every airport I travel through seems like it has been remodeled, expanded, etc.

    Now, the way we pay for it all these days is flawed. But it does get done.

    Both parties continually bemoan our infrastructure. I don't get it. I feel like the guy saying the emporer has no clothes.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Our nfrasyructure problems are overstated. I drive throughout Texas, once a year make a week up to Nebraska and Iowa, went to Alabama a couple of years ago. Drive through Boston, Rhode Island, and Connecticut last summer. Roads are good everywhere, except Oklahoma, but that's to be expected.
    Around here, we have one freeway in need of repair, which is being worked on, just taking too long. All the major interchanges have been rebuilt into nothing short of engineering Marvel's compared to how they were done 30 years ago.

    Every airport I travel through seems like it has been remodeled, expanded, etc.

    Now, the way we pay for it all these days is flawed. But it does get done.

    Both parties continually bemoan our infrastructure. I don't get it. I feel like the guy saying the emporer has no clothes.

    Deficit spending. Highway Trust Fund has been negative since 2008 with Congress pulling from the general fund because the GOP believes in a free lunch at our kids expense. In effect the gov’t has been subsidizing fuel purchases a few cents a gallon. It’s ok, our kids and grandkids can pay.

    It would be more accurate to look at actual data on present and anticpated costs than go by anecdotal recollections and denial for a national issue.
    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...ow-it-financed

    Before 2008, highway tax revenue dedicated to the trust fund was sufficient to pay for outlays from the fund, but that has not been true in recent years. Since 2008, Congress has sustained highway spending by transferring $143 billion of general revenues to the fund, including $70 billion in 2016 as a result of legislation enacted at the end of 2015.

    Those transfers will enable the trust fund to meet spending obligations through 2020, but projected shortfalls will appear again starting in 2021. The Congressional Budget Office projects that outlays from the Highway Trust Fund will exceed trust fund reserves by a cumulative $75 billion for the highway account and by $32 billion for the mass transit account from 2016 through 2026, even assuming that expiring trust funds taxes are extended (Congressional Budget Office 2016).

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    $213 Billion Peb. A subsidy for every fuel consumer. Why doesn’t the GOP want people to pay as they go for infrastructure repairs? Why encourage more consumption of a non-renewable resource?

    Because people want a free lunch. No new taxes. The cost of building a bridge or replacing a highway should cost no more than it did 25 yrs ago. Explain that reasoning please. If you get a deck built on your house it should cost the same as it did 25 yrs ago.

    Let the kids pay for our roads.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    there is nothing conservative about refusing to pay for infrastructure upkeep and whining that gas isn’t as cheap as it used to be.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyi...rels-fuel-use/

    For 25 years the United States federal fuel user fee (aka the “gas tax”) has remained stagnant, even as vehicle miles traveled accelerated and crumbling transportation infrastructure needs accumulated.

    But the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s proposal to raise the gas tax by $0.25 per gallon and President Trump’s support for up to a $0.50 gas tax hike has restarted contentious debate of the future of U.S. transportation funding. So what impact would this gas tax hike have on the U.S. economy, its fuel use, and its fleet composition?

    Energy Innovation evaluated the potential impacts of a gas tax increase on the U.S. economy, total energy demand, and transportation fleet composition using the Energy Policy Simulator (EPS) computer model. The open-source and peer-reviewed EPS uses government data to assess the impacts of dozens of energy-related policies on emissions, costs and savings, and fuel consumption.

    Our analysis shows that through 2050, a $0.25 gas tax would generate $840 billion in revenue for the federal government , add 1.2 million additional electric vehicles to U.S. roads, and cut total fuel use by more than 1.3 billion barrels. It is also equivalent to a $29 per ton carbon tax on the transportation sector.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Surely issuing repair/replacement project contracts would benefit the GOP companies?
    try to keep up

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,320

    Default

    LeeG,. Try to keep up:

    "Now, the way we pay for it all these days is flawed.'

    That was from my post.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    LeeG,. Try to keep up:

    "Now, the way we pay for it all these days is flawed.'

    That was from my post.
    And your solution is?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,320

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    And your solution is?
    To start with raise the gas tax and make it indexed to inflation.

    But, the thread is not about how we pay for it, it is about our deteriorating infrastructure. So I focused my post on that point.

    And I am not in denial about anything. In this case I trust my, rather broad, anedoctal evidence more than I trust reports on the state of our infrastructure produced by some government agency.
    Last edited by peb; 05-16-2018 at 05:13 AM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    51,913

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    "And I am not in denial about anything. In this case I trust my, rather broad, anedoctal evidence more than I trust reports on the state of our infrastructure produced by some government agency."
    And there you have it. Education, expertise, information, technical data, science, all dumped for 'anecdotal evidence'. No wonder we are in trouble.
    And if you don't trust government then this one is as bad as any other has been if not worse. And if you can't elect a government you can trust then there is no hope for the country.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    90,636

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    And I am not in denial about anything. In this case I trust my, rather broad, anedoctal evidence more than I trust reports on the state of our infrastructure produced by some government agency.
    a one week per year vacation drive around texas and a few flights through selected airports thta hve gone thrpughj recent upgrades?

    cue of john of phoenix please. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    To start with raise the gas tax and make it indexed to inflation.

    But, the thread is not about how we pay for it, it is about our deteriorating infrastructure. So I focused my post on that point.

    And I am not in denial about anything. In this case I trust my, rather broad, anedoctal evidence more than I trust reports on the state of our infrastructure produced by some government agency.
    Thx, amazingly obvious solution. Given the thread is about GOP refusal to adequately fund transportation infrastructure any thoughts why such a simple solution hasn’t been implemented?

    Your rather broad anecdotal evidence is not an assessment of structures and roadways throughout the nation. It’s you driving a car according to your needs and desires. You’re operating a vehicle, not assessing structural integrity.

    Remember when Wilbur Ross said he didn’t see any protesters on the road during his visit to Saudi Arabia?
    Last edited by LeeG; 05-16-2018 at 07:08 AM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    a one week per year vacation drive around texas and a few flights through selected airports thta hve gone thrpughj recent upgrades?

    cue of john of phoenix please. . .
    Gotta give him credit for his confidence. Why spend all that money on people checking welds or flood damage to roadways and structures when a glance at 60mph will suffice?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,320

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    a one week per year vacation drive around texas and a few flights through selected airports thta hve gone thrpughj recent upgrades?

    cue of john of phoenix please. . .
    No, I drive around Texas all the time. Vacation drive to Midwest is once a year. Ok, I'll bite, where are that bad roads? Not around here. Certainly in Oklahoma. Not in Louisiana, or Alabama, Missouri, nebraska, Iowa, Massachusetts, Rhode island, Connecticut. Perhaps I have just been lucky and always find the roads that are good.

    Oh, I know that arguing our infrastructure problems are overstated is like arguing against apple pie. So I expect this.

    Here is another one: education infrastructure. I am continually amazed at the facilities that have been built and upgraded in our public schools and universities. Now, this is afmittedly a smaller sample than roads and airports, but in the last 30 years school facilitues around here have been improved greatly. Even in many poorer rural districts.

    I stand by my statement: our infrastructure problems are overstated, and will add this:. Where they do exists, I suspect local mismanagement is more the problem than lack of funds.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    totally overstated, you are correct about local policies encouraging vulnerabilities.


  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,320

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    totally overstated, you are correct about local policies encouraging vulnerabilities.

    Yes. Also, related to your picture,I will also add that I have not taken into account vulnerability to natural disasters in general.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Natural phenomena can be a disaster when policies encourage growth based on short term reward. Keeping gas prices less than they should by not indexing the fuel tax to inflation encourages more fuel consumption.

    I just don’t get the conservative part to this.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    25,996

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    The U.S. has 614,387 bridges, almost four in 10 of which are 50 years or older. 56,007 — 9.1% — of the nation’s bridges were structurally deficient in 2016, and on average there were 188 million trips across a structurally deficient bridge each day. While the number of bridges that are in such poor condition as to be considered structurally deficient is decreasing, the average age of America’s bridges keeps going up and many of the nation’s bridges are approaching the end of their design life. The most recent estimate puts the nation’s backlog of bridge rehabilitation needs at $123 billion.
    https://www.infrastructurereportcard...-item/bridges/

    Details available there
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  29. #29
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Yeah, but that’s not anecdotal evidence. Besides isn’t clever to get what we can while we can and let the next generation deal with it?

    btw

    https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060081767

    The Trump administration is considering forming "a new, central institution" to advocate for natural gas and coal technology and exports, according to a document E&E News obtained from an administration source.

    The draft talking points on a "Clean and Advanced Fossil Fuel Alliance," which were labeled pre-decisional, build on what had to this point been described as a loose affiliation of countries the United States is courting.

    The idea arose in response to a coalition of nations that pledged to phase out coal-fired power at last year's U.N. climate talks in Bonn, Germany (E&E News PM, Dec. 11, 2017).

    Scientists, policymakers, industries and innovators would participate in the envisioned institution to "explore the vast potential of clean and advanced fossil fuels, specifically clean coal and natural gas," according to the document.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    30,620

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by peb View Post
    Our nfrasyructure problems are overstated. I drive throughout Texas, once a year make a week up to Nebraska and Iowa, went to Alabama a couple of years ago. Drive through Boston, Rhode Island, and Connecticut last summer. Roads are good everywhere, except Oklahoma, but that's to be expected.
    Around here, we have one freeway in need of repair, which is being worked on, just taking too long. All the major interchanges have been rebuilt into nothing short of engineering Marvel's compared to how they were done 30 years ago.

    Every airport I travel through seems like it has been remodeled, expanded, etc.

    Now, the way we pay for it all these days is flawed. But it does get done.

    Both parties continually bemoan our infrastructure. I don't get it. I feel like the guy saying the emporer has no clothes.
    Try driving on Route 1 in NJ. Much of the problem is what you can't see; like how well the bridge is supported.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    30,620

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    $213 Billion Peb. A subsidy for every fuel consumer. Why doesn’t the GOP want people to pay as they go for infrastructure repairs? Why encourage more consumption of a non-renewable resource?

    Because people want a free lunch. No new taxes. The cost of building a bridge or replacing a highway should cost no more than it did 25 yrs ago. Explain that reasoning please. If you get a deck built on your house it should cost the same as it did 25 yrs ago.

    Let the kids pay for our roads.
    This gets back, again, to Reagan. He told us we could have a free lunch; Borrow and borrow and never have to pay back.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Long Beach, California
    Posts
    561

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    How about updating our Internet infrastructure?

    How about cleaning up all the contaminated sites across the county?

    Decommishining the old Nuclear Plants?

    Creating a renewable energy grid which is robust?

    All these things will cost lots of money but will also create jobs, not just initially but for years to come. In other words, they would be good investments.

    Seems like a no-brainer to me. How to pay for it? Easy, just take a couple hundred billion from the military budget.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    27,457

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    You can see problems clearly enough in Tennessee.

    Infrastructure is more than road conditions or even the structural integrity of bridges. There's the quality of public transportation, the condition of the schools we send our kids to, conditions in and on the streets, public water systems (Flint) and so on. If the road surfaces are good, bravo, but what do the sidewalks look like? And not just in one's own neighborhood.

    I'm with Ralphie!
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    northern Georgia, or Mississippi Delta USA
    Posts
    15,812

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Texas Has 847 Structurally Deficient Bridges: Report
    In 21 states, at least 9 percent of bridges were rated structurally deficient, the analysis found.

    https://patch.com/texas/across-tx/te...bridges-report

  35. #35
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    47,645

    Default Re: Infrastructure and the GOP

    Congressman DeFazio tried to get a one cent fed gas tax raise through Congress. GOP wouldnt do it. It’ll take about 15 cents to get us up to inflation and another ten cents to pay back the $200 billion spent on the shortfall. One cent and they wouldn’t do it.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.e92e4face91e

    By Ashley Halsey III October 26, 2017 Email the author
    The White House is revisiting an increase in the federal gas tax to pay for infrastructure improvements President Trump promised to deliver on the campaign trail.

    That news was conveyed to House members Wednesday in a meeting by Trump’s chief economic adviser, Gary Cohn.
    .
    .
    Some Democrats, notable among them Rep. Peter A. DeFazio (Ore.), ranking Democrat of the House Transportation Committee, have fought an upstream battle to increase the tax.

    “It’s totally inadequate if it’s 7 cents,” DeFazio said, alluding to the increase Cohn reportedly proposed. “With 7 cents, we wouldn’t be able to maintain the current level of spending.”

    The fact that few people are aware of the federal tax was made evident last year when former Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell asked a room filled with transportation experts how many of them knew the precise amount Uncle Sam collects at the gas pump.

    Only three hands were raised. The tax is 18.4 cents per gallon for gasoline and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel.

    “Knowing the resistance on the other side of the aisle, I proposed the most minimalistic thing I could think of, which was indexation of the gas and diesel tax, capping the annual increase at 1.5 cents per gallon,” he said. “We would issue $33 billion a year of bonds over a 15-year period, raising approximately $500 billion.”

    That bill has gotten no traction, although House Transportation Committee Chairman Bill Shuster (R-Pa.) says all means of infrastructure funding remain on the table.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •