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Thread: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    My point was loss of institutional knowledge. The workers could have not shown up for any reason at all.

    I think the business owners made poor decisions in the past. In particular, they depended on a specific government program. I don't think they should close up, but for many that may be the best option. I think they should change their business model. I am sure some will.
    If they can't get local help & they have migrant workers who've been doing the work for 30 years - what was the "poor business decision"? They got no financial benefit from the gov't - the gov't just abandoned them for political expediency. BTW - the county the interviewee has his business in was 80% for Trump & he voted for Trump. He said he is seriously rethinking his politics.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    "I just don't think Donald Trump knows what's going on"
    Wow!!! The fu$%^ers that voted for him are starting to catch up with the rest of the country. I'll take $60/hour to go down there and lend a hand.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    If they can't get local help & they have migrant workers who've been doing the work for 30 years - what was the "poor business decision"? They got no financial benefit from the gov't - the gov't just abandoned them for political expediency. BTW - the county the interviewee has his business in was 80% for Trump & he voted for Trump. He said he is seriously rethinking his politics.
    I'm with TLT on this one. They literally effed themselves, LMFAO!!!!! Hope they have to sell the island cheap to Trump so he can build a hotel on it, serves them right for being stupid.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I'm with TLT on this one. They literally effed themselves, LMFAO!!!!! Hope they have to sell the island cheap to Trump so he can build a hotel on it, serves them right for being stupid.
    As mentioned, Trump is getting all his visa workers. While I hope they learn from this, I don't wish them any ill. I hope you can come back to your statement later & realize that you're better than this.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    A side benefit blessing is that in the reduced 'harvesting' of crab this season it will allow the crab population to multiply and recover.
    There are some harvesting practices that reduce the following year population but normal crab pot culture is not one of them. Dredging crabs out of the mud in offseason may be the worse. Weather and water quality are big determinants also. Working crab pots is kind of self regulating. If catch is too small to make sufficient profit? Pick up the pots. Leaving pots in after the season is over starves quite a few and some volunteers pick up these every year.
    Tom L

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    My point was loss of institutional knowledge. The workers could have not shown up for any reason at all.

    I think the business owners made poor decisions in the past. In particular, they depended on a specific government program. I don't think they should close up, but for many that may be the best option. I think they should change their business model. I am sure some will.
    How many businesses can you name that do not make their business model based on what the government regulations and current laws are? No one does this as well a trump, especially related to the tax code..
    Tom L

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    And before this latin phenomenon ... locals did the work and everyone was poor except for a few who owned the boats, ran the docks and were the bankers. It was what provided the few jobs in town. Many kids went barefoot and many stopped going to school before the 9th grade.

    Good times.
    Those were "Great" times!

    Trump and his ilk are making sure we will have them again. They will reap the rewards of ownership and management and the rest of the country will work under deplorable conditions again.

    Upton Sinclair's The Jungle is still a good read

    "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach."

    "The book depicts working-class poverty, the lack of social supports, harsh and unpleasant living and working conditions, and a hopelessness among many workers. These elements are contrasted with the deeply rooted corruption of people in power. A review by the writer Jack London called it "the Uncle Tom's Cabin of wage slavery."
    wiki

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    "us white privileged people . . . not physically capable of doing"

    Care to explain, clarify or expand on that?
    Yup. Fat, lazy, and spoiled.
    Stay calm, be brave....wait for the signs. Possibly precariously prevaricating.
    .

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    If they can't get local help & they have migrant workers who've been doing the work for 30 years - what was the "poor business decision"? They got no financial benefit from the gov't - the gov't just abandoned them for political expediency. BTW - the county the interviewee has his business in was 80% for Trump & he voted for Trump. He said he is seriously rethinking his politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Lathrop View Post
    How many businesses can you name that do not make their business model based on what the government regulations and current laws are? No one does this as well a trump, especially related to the tax code..
    I would suggest that sometime prior in the 30-40 year ago time frame the businesses/industry became more aggressive in their interpretation of the labor laws. That changed the labor market from locals to migrants. That was the poor business decision.

    Uber and airbnb seem to take an aggressive view of labor law. Most businesses don't.
    Life is complex.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    As mentioned, Trump is getting all his visa workers. While I hope they learn from this, I don't wish them any ill. I hope you can come back to your statement later & realize that you're better than this.
    Clearly, I’m not better than this. Sorry to disappoint you.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McMahon View Post
    Yup. Fat, lazy, and spoiled.
    I suspect that that description "Fat, lazy, and spoiled " mean that one is "not physically capable of doing".

    Are you really stating that you consider that ALL 'white privileged people' are 'Fat' , and also are ALL lazy and ALL spoiled?

    1. Appreciate that being 'Fat'; if excessively; can mean that one is "not physically capable of doing".

    2. Being 'lazy' does not mean that one is "not physically capable of doing".

    3. Being 'spoiled' does not mean that one is "not physically capable of doing".

    As being a white person who apparently is privileged (as a result of my birth to my parents) :




    Methinks one is using far too broad a brush in one's accusation.


    .
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 05-16-2018 at 08:29 AM.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    While where I live is not as hurting, many of the industries in Southern New Jersey are also very dependent on migrant workers. From the Casinos, to boardwalk amusement parks, to the fisheries, and even down to the farms. This area lives and breathes on it's migrant and seasonal workers. To put it simply, there are not enough people in the area to fill all the roles needed for a short 4 month summer season. I imagine Hoopers Island and many of the places like it face the same issues. They have a large and profitable industry, but because the season is so short, they do not have a need for the permanent workforce, nor can they sustain one.

    Migrant workers can do that. Not only can they move into an area to make a decent living for a few months and they return home, they can also move on to the next industry that needs them.
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Who would have thought demonizing refugees, immigrants and migrant laborers would cause problems. Oh well, not a worry for Ivanka.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Who would have thought demonizing refugees, immigrants and migrant laborers would cause problems. Oh well, not a worry for Ivanka.

    Each of those are different issues.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    While where I live is not as hurting, many of the industries in Southern New Jersey are also very dependent on migrant workers. From the Casinos, to boardwalk amusement parks, to the fisheries, and even down to the farms. This area lives and breathes on it's migrant and seasonal workers. To put it simply, there are not enough people in the area to fill all the roles needed for a short 4 month summer season. I imagine Hoopers Island and many of the places like it face the same issues. They have a large and profitable industry, but because the season is so short, they do not have a need for the permanent workforce, nor can they sustain one.

    Migrant workers can do that. Not only can they move into an area to make a decent living for a few months and they return home, they can also move on to the next industry that needs them.
    slightly above minimum wage and no housing is not decent. Sorry that the owners of industry do not want to pay a wage which makes our children and those who have off for summer want to work. These crying employers love to hire immigrants and make them live is dangerous inadequate hovels, moldy trailers, tents or sleeping in cars while they prosper as the fat bloated cats we used to admonish.

    this is a question of keeping wages low and welding the stick of employer's power over the seasonal labor. Any one who says otherwise is either part of the problem (as it cuts into thier bigger personal profits) or practicing self deception thinking they live in a bygone era. as anyone who grew up in the 60s to early 80 can tell you, one could work all summer or season and pay for school and life. That does not happen anymore. Big business and bad policy made sure of that.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 05-16-2018 at 11:34 AM.
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    "while they prosper as the fat bloated cats" These are not the families of Chesapeake watermen that I'm familiar with. But you may have a better perspective from the West Coast.




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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Ted, with respect to you, you seem to be rather harsh on this issue. We here in SW Nova Scotia have a similar situation to that of the Maryland crabbers, except with lobsters. Packing plant jobs pay about 50% over minimum wage to start, and about 2x minimum for experienced workers. These jobs cannot be filled by local workers due to a.) many eligible do not want to work in a fish plant and b.) there just isn't the population density to supply the numbers needed for a four-to-six-month job. So "guest workers" are hired, mostly Philipinos and Mexicans, who are boarded in local homes, rental apartments and efficiency motel units (one company bought two local motels for this purpose). Could your strong anti- position vis-a-vis the owners and operators of seasonal crustacean packing plants be coloured by your exposure to Californian farm worker's conditions and limited (or no) exposure to east coast fish packing in rural seaside communities, maybe?
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Kevin...Blue Crab meat for bait?? What could you possibly hope to catch as tasty as the bait?

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Each of those are different issues.
    If you get drunk, yell at your spouse, break a window and wreck your car each of those is a different issue. Why do you play devils advocate for GOP dysfunction?

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    If you get drunk, yell at your spouse, break a window and wreck your car each of those is a different issue. Why do you play devils advocate for GOP dysfunction?
    No devils advocate intended. I was only pointing out that each of those (refugees, immigrants and migrant laborers) were different issues.

    OTOH you might consider (incorrectly I would add) that I was

    I just wanted to post this.

    Have posted source and started another thread on trolling (deep sea).
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 05-16-2018 at 01:06 PM.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Ted, with respect to you, you seem to be rather harsh on this issue. We here in SW Nova Scotia have a similar situation to that of the Maryland crabbers, except with lobsters. Packing plant jobs pay about 50% over minimum wage to start, and about 2x minimum for experienced workers. These jobs cannot be filled by local workers due to a.) many eligible do not want to work in a fish plant and b.) there just isn't the population density to supply the numbers needed for a four-to-six-month job. So "guest workers" are hired, mostly Philipinos and Mexicans, who are boarded in local homes, rental apartments and efficiency motel units (one company bought two local motels for this purpose). Could your strong anti- position vis-a-vis the owners and operators of seasonal crustacean packing plants be coloured by your exposure to Californian farm worker's conditions and limited (or no) exposure to east coast fish packing in rural seaside communities, maybe?
    I think a question to consider would be: Why don't other Canadians do this season work? I think an answer is that Canadians are offered better working conditions elsewhere and the guest workers are offered worse working conditions at home.

    I am sure that the conditions Canadians would require to do the work would put the business owner's out of work. Similar in the US.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    Ted, with respect to you, you seem to be rather harsh on this issue. We here in SW Nova Scotia have a similar situation to that of the Maryland crabbers, except with lobsters. Packing plant jobs pay about 50% over minimum wage to start, and about 2x minimum for experienced workers. These jobs cannot be filled by local workers due to a.) many eligible do not want to work in a fish plant and b.) there just isn't the population density to supply the numbers needed for a four-to-six-month job. So "guest workers" are hired, mostly Philipinos and Mexicans, who are boarded in local homes, rental apartments and efficiency motel units (one company bought two local motels for this purpose). Could your strong anti- position vis-a-vis the owners and operators of seasonal crustacean packing plants be coloured by your exposure to Californian farm worker's conditions and limited (or no) exposure to east coast fish packing in rural seaside communities, maybe?
    I may be harsh but know how people are treated in low wage seasonal jobs in the United States. Unlike many white educated Americans, I struggled to make it here in San Francisco after getting out of the navy. In my journey I met Ceasar Chavez and Harry Bridges which I wrote a college paper on. Over the years I witnessed many labor disputes and really tried understand both sides of capital and labor. My sister, a Pulitzer Prize winner and the former business editor at the Washington post earned her stripes cover business and labor issues which clearly brought light to this subject and enable me to understand the plight of migratory labor.

    Here currently working the waterfront as a fun second career - I have come know the seasonal crabbers, fishermen and salmon workers who work off fishermans wharf. Many have criminal backgrounds and have done time. The seasonal migrant workers which are the backbone of the industries earn 15 a hour and are happy to be working but live 8 to 10 to a room or often just sleep in the car Even my own great ferry hires temp visa workers and pays them 16 a hour. These temp workers from Ireland and the eastern block pay 400 a month - 6 to a room in bunk beds with no kitchen access), a hour away by public transit ($12 per day x 6 days a week) and receive no other compensation beside basic airfare is provided. They end up walking away with 800 a month after taxes for a total takeaway of about 2400 for the summer.

    as for Florida - I know the fishing and agriculture industries from my other legal labor work. It is based on low wages and predatory labor practices. There are often no or few bathrooms provided, exposures to toxins and employer representives who encourage breaking labor and pay practices.

    Canada may be better than here in the States regarding labor and kindness to those who provide these seasonal services.

    The facts are that exploitation of seasonal labor, work conditions and lack of affordable housing make these seasonal jobs more miserable. Knowing the owners and managers of these various industries who reap great profit off these conditions are to blame for some of this loss of the country's youth toward the hard work ethic and propagate the lies to continue thier personal wealth and enrichment from these practices.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 05-16-2018 at 01:16 PM.
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD



    You win!


    I think we all feel for the workers and the generations long family owned small businesses that until now LEGALLY hired them. But, we have much different concepts of what is in their best interest.

    I'm sure the workers and the small businesses that employ them are the ones who will suffer from the lack of visas. I won't be the mega corporations that step into to replace them.
    Skip

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    bringing in workers to do crappy jobs for little pay.... sounds familiar.

    you would think all the progressives would be happy that the white privileged people in this story have had their slaves emancipated.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    bringing in workers to do crappy jobs for little pay.... sounds familiar.

    you would think all the progressives would be happy that the white privileged people in this story have had their slaves emancipated.
    Little pay? Over min. wage to start & the skilled ones make $30/hr is "little pay".

    Think before posting please.
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    I'm with Skip. White flag being waved - I know nothing about all this & everyone else is an expert on local conditions. The owners of the company are stupid & evil and any workers that depend on this income can go suck eggs - I get it now.

    Hope y'all enjoy your $50 crab roll made from imported crab - just to ensure no one from the US gets anything for it.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Chesapeake watermen "privileged" , well that's a new one!
    Skip

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    I suspect that that description "Fat, lazy, and spoiled " mean that one is "not physically capable of doing".

    Are you really stating that you consider that ALL 'white privileged people' are 'Fat' , and also are ALL lazy and ALL spoiled?

    1. Appreciate that being 'Fat'; if excessively; can mean that one is "not physically capable of doing".

    2. Being 'lazy' does not mean that one is "not physically capable of doing".

    3. Being 'spoiled' does not mean that one is "not physically capable of doing".

    As being a white person who apparently is privileged (as a result of my birth to my parents) :




    Methinks one is using far too broad a brush in one's accusation.


    .
    Yes, I am using a very broad brush. I grew up on fruit and vegetable farm, have worked in food processing, worked harvesting peat moss, and worked in a fish plant. Even in the 80's most of those I worked with were recent immigrants. The locals were more comfortable collecting welfare and were extremely unreliable and poor workers when they did work.

    Another example I am very familiar with is the strawberry crop in Nova Scotia which is in early summer. I picked strawberries along with other kids. 90+ % of the kids today will not do the work, nor will their parents encourage them to do it. If it wasn't for immigrants and temporary foreign labour the berries would rot in the fields.

    You can choose to be upset if you want, but those are the facts.
    Stay calm, be brave....wait for the signs. Possibly precariously prevaricating.
    .

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    Chesapeake watermen "privileged" , well that's a new one!


    hahahha, i'm just working with what i've got man.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Little pay? Over min. wage to start & the skilled ones make $30/hr is "little pay".

    Think before posting please.
    Hold on old, white, fat dudes.. this isn't 1985.

    If one works for 30 an hour for 12 weeks at 8 hours a day that is $14,000 before taxes. Then 14k for rest of year is 28,000 Can you live on 28,000 a year before taxes with no medical, dental, have a car with insurance, and make rent? It will be close... won't it.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 05-16-2018 at 02:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve McMahon View Post
    Yes, I am using a very broad brush. I grew up on fruit and vegetable farm, have worked in food processing, worked harvesting peat moss, and worked in a fish plant. Even in the 80's most of those I worked with were recent immigrants. The locals were more comfortable collecting welfare and were extremely unreliable and poor workers when they did work.

    Another example I am very familiar with is the strawberry crop in Nova Scotia which is in early summer. I picked strawberries along with other kids. 90+ % of the kids today will not do the work, nor will their parents encourage them to do it. If it wasn't for immigrants and temporary foreign labour the berries would rot in the fields.

    You can choose to be upset if you want, but those are the facts.
    I was 'a little upset' by the accusation that ALL white privileged people are fat, lazy, and spoiled are "not physically capable of doing".
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    If one works for 30 an hour for 12 weeks at 8 hours a day is $14,000 before taxes. Then 14k for rest of year is 28,000

    Can you live on 28,000 a year?
    Maybe, maybe not, but I don't live in Guatemala.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I'm with Skip. White flag being waved - I know nothing about all this & everyone else is an expert on local conditions. The owners of the company are stupid & evil and any workers that depend on this income can go suck eggs - I get it now.

    Hope y'all enjoy your $50 crab roll made from imported crab - just to ensure no one from the US gets anything for it.
    reading about your stuff and life over the years.. I know you have suckled on this great labor sow as well. It may be the reason why you feel so prosperous and can't imagine another hard reality of crappy seasonal work. Keep projecting if it makes you feel better.
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Maybe, maybe not, but I don't live in Guatemala.
    They don't live in Guatemala either. They live in the shadows outside our major cities. Just go ask them right at the entrance or parking lot of every Home Depot waiting for day labor.
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    Default Re: Crab pickers wanted - Hoopers Island, MD

    ^ The seasonal laborers and their circumstances here in the lobster-packing business in SW Nova are so, so much different than your experience Ted. But I won't argue with you any longer; it seems futile. You won't believe it coming from me, as your experience from 5,000 miles away trumps my local knowledge. I are stoopit, U R not...
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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