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Thread: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    what we see, what the world sees. What a frigging target Trump has put on US diplomatic sites. All the while Trump leaves diplomatic positions unfilled and State Dept. underfunded, but by golly more for the military. Any guess where that leads things?



    https://mobile.twitter.com/RVAwonk/s...569857/photo/3

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Australia will do what china wants them to do.
    And of course you lack the proof to prove this! Another righty wet dream!

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Australia will do what china wants them to do.
    Are you aware of AIPACs influence on US politics?

    Blood on Trumps hands pandering to ignorant and evangelical American voters.

    https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/s...m_npd_ms_tw_ai

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44120428

    Jerusalem embassy: Why Trump's move was not about peace
    By Barbara Plett Usher
    BBC State Dept correspondent, Washington
    Last edited by LeeG; 05-15-2018 at 08:56 AM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    And of course you lack the proof to prove this! Another righty wet dream!
    Given China’s proximity and trade it’s reasonable to expect some influence. Israels influence on the US is a whole other thing.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...mpression=true

    Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri called the embassy opening a "provocative" act that closes the door to any hope of peace between the two peoples.
    "This decision that is igniting the anger of millions of Arabs, Muslims and Christians," Hariri tweeted Monday.
    The new embassy allows "Israelis to spill more blood of innocent Palestinians and increases the intensity of extremism that threatens the world community," he posted.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Screwing over an oppressed people for domestic politics.

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_s...s-expecte.html

    The Israeli-Palestinian struggle is a tribal war, a struggle for the same narrow strip of land between two peoples who hate each other. In this struggle The Israelis have the US on their side and the Palestinians have the Islamic World.

    There is no end in sight. pl

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    language matters

    https://www.juancole.com/2018/05/pal...-israelis.html

    Whenever you read of someone killed in the passive mood, you may be assured that a cover-up is being conducted by the murderers and their accomplices.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    NY Daily News

    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Israel needs a stronger counterbalance for peace.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    So - how was the violence not predictable? Is it that Trump knew it'd happen & didn't care? Is it that Israel has decided "We can do whatever we want now"? There was someone from Israel's gov't on the BBC today spinning the shootings as "soldiers doing their jobs" - shooting protesters armed with slingshots it "doing their job"?

    I've understood that former presidents - even ones who wanted to move the embassy - must've realized that this sort of thing would happen - so they were bright enough to not do it. Hah! W looking brighter than the current president - whoda thunkit?

    More seriously - is this all just a ploy to make the Palestinians lose it, so Israel can just go in & wipe 'em out?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    I think that Trump was just pandering to his base, reckless of the inevitable consequences.

    "Reckless" seems a good word for Netanyahu, also.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I think that Trump was just pandering to his base, reckless of the inevitable consequences.

    "Reckless" seems a good word for Netanyahu, also.
    Pretty much. What is good for him is good for the country. Winners deserve to win and losers deserve to lose.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Now our ambassador to the United Nations says Israel acted with “restraint” in Gaza. 60 dead, 1500 shot in the legs, tear gas released by drones, killing at least one baby. Restraint indeed.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    This shooting the legs thing has me astounded. It seems the shooting is intended to do serious bone damage - which can only be repaired in a very modern hospital - which the Palestinian side of the border does not have. Israel refuses the victims entry to their hospitals, so the protesters lose legs - as that's all the local hospitals can do to save their lives.

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Like I said Trump is making a target out of US diplomatic sites basing this move on the desires of apocalyptic Christians in the US that are a part of his base. Just a reminder one of the defining characteristics of DAESH/ISIS is their apocalyptic vision. Hastening an apocalypse is a good thing, creating chaos and it’s attendant life and death consequences is Gods Plan. That is what a significant minority of Americans who voted for Trump want as does DAESH/ISIS. That ideology in the US is a greater threat than DAESH/ISIS because of our military power and how we use it. Trump does not have the values to care what happens to the losers, if they lose it’s because they’re not winners. His gas-lighting comment about McCain not being a hero because he was captured is a clear expression of that. The Palestinians are Losers because his evangelical base made him a Winner.

    “He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”



    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/14/173526...-israel-prayer

    “Israel has blessed this world by pointing us to you, the one true God, through the message of her prophets, the Scriptures, and the Messiah.”

    So Robert Jeffress, the same pastor who once made “Make America Great Again” into a hymn, prayed during his blessing of the new US Embassy in Jerusalem on Monday.

    In his prayer, Jeffress also praised President Donald Trump as one who “stands on the right side of you, O God, when it comes to Israel.”

    Jeffress, a pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas and one of the most prominent members of Trump’s unofficial evangelical advisory council, has long been known for his vocal support of Trump. He has repeatedly said that divine providence had a hand in Trump’s election and that God has authorized Trump to do, basically, whatever he wants.

    Rabbi Jack Moline of the Interfaith Alliance was also critical of the Trump administration’s invitation to Jeffress. He said in an interview that “the American embassy is American soil. And therefore, the constitutional principles that we live by ought to be in place when a ceremony is being held on American soil.” In Moline’s view, Jeffress’s remarks “violated the establishment clause … by mixing their own particular right-wing theology in what was supposed to be a civil event.”

    For many evangelical Christians — including those who have Trump’s ear — moving the embassy to Jerusalem isn’t just about temporal political goals. Rather, the embassy move is one that will yield cosmic, and catastrophic, results. Evangelicals who subscribe to the quintessentially American tradition of premillennial dispensationalist theology, Trump’s decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem is a necessary step in bringing about the apocalypse.
    .
    .
    In 2014, Jeffress wrote a book arguing that Obama was paving the way for the coming of the Antichrist, if not the Antichrist himself. He’s cast Trump as a kind of modern-day King Cyrus: chosen by God as an unlikely leader. He’s frequently made statements that cast the future of Israel as the function of biblical prophecy. As longtime “court evangelical” watcher John Fea points out, on a recent Fox & Friends segment, Jeffress made a point of quoting the popular dispensationalist Bible verses Genesis 12:1-3, in which God promises to bless those who bless Israel, and curse those who curse Israel.

    It would be difficult to come up with a more symbolically potent figure to open the new embassy in Jerusalem than Jeffress. And while, as Moore insists, there may have been other factors than the eschatological at play in Trump’s decision to move the embassy, the foregrounding of Jeffress today is a powerful nod to the efforts of Christian Zionists worldwide.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    And Hagee.

    This is what the US Gov’t is presenting to the world. No doubt those who believe Christianity should be expressed as endorsing diplomatic functions are ok with this.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/polit...lem/index.html

    Pastor John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel, delivered the benediction at the ceremony.
    "We thank you, O Lord, for President Donald Trump's courage in acknowledging to the world a truth that was established 3,000 years ago -- that Jerusalem is and always shall be the eternal capital of the Jewish people," Hagee said.
    "And because of that courage of our President, we gather here today to consecrate the ground upon which the United States Embassy will stand reminding the dictators of the world that America and Israel are forever united," he added.
    A major proponent of the embassy move, Hagee said in a recent interview with conservative news site Breitbart that he told Trump he would win "political immortality" for moving the embassy from Tel Aviv.
    "I told him that the moment that you do that, I believe that you will step into political immortality," the news site quoted Hagee as saying. "Because you are having the courage to do what other presidents did not have the courage to do."
    .
    .
    Hagee, whose group is dedicated to organizing pro-Israel Christians in the United States into a unified voice, has had relationships with Israeli prime ministers dating back years. But he came under the national political spotlight in 2008 for comments that prompted then-Republican presidential candidate John McCain to reject his endorsement.
    During the campaign, audio from one of Hagee's sermons in the 1990s was leaked that seemed to suggest that Adolf Hitler had been fulfilling God's will by aiding the desire of Jews to return to Israel in accordance with biblical prophecy.
    "God says in Jeremiah 16: 'Behold, I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave to their fathers. ... Behold, I will send for many fishers, and after will I send for many hunters,'" Hagee said, according to a transcript of his sermon. "'And they the hunters shall hunt them.' That would be the Jews. ... Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone who comes with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter."
    In a statement at the time, McCain said, "Obviously, I find these remarks and others deeply offensive and indefensible, and I repudiate them. I did not know of them before Rev. Hagee's endorsement, and I feel I must reject his endorsement as well."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee
    Personal beliefs Edit

    Hagee believes in Pentecostal practices such as the "baptism of the Holy Spirit." He also believes in the "absolute authority of the scripture," baptism by immersion, and evangelism.[13]

    Hagee believes the Bible commands Christians to support the State of Israel and the Jewish people.[14][15]

    In 2007, Hagee stated that he does not believe in global warming, and he also said that he sees the Kyoto Protocol as a conspiracy aimed at manipulating the U.S. economy.[16] Also, Hagee has condemned the Evangelical Climate Initiative, an initiative "signed by 86 evangelical leaders acknowledging the seriousness of global warming and pledging to press for legislation to limit carbon dioxide emissions."[17]

    Hagee denounces abortion, and stopped giving money to Israel's Hadassah Medical Center when it began performing the procedure.[14]

    In his 2005 book Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World, Hagee interprets the Bible to predict that Russia and the Islamic states will invade Israel and will be destroyed by God. This will cause the antichrist, the head of the European Union, to create a confrontation over Israel between China and the West. The book echoes predictions made in The Late, Great Planet Earth, the best-selling 1970 book co-authored by Hal Lindsey and Carole C. Carlson.

    The Christian Research Institute (among others) has strongly criticized Hagee's 2007 book, In Defense of Israel, for apparently arguing that Jesus did not claim to be the Messiah for the Jews, only the Savior for the Christian Church, and therefore, that attempts should not be made to convert Jews.[18] Hagee issued a statement denying the first of these allegations and promises to revise one chapter in a new edition to make his views clearer.

    44]

    Blood moon prophecy Edit
    Hagee, along with pastor Mark Biltz, promoted the Blood moon prophecy. Hagee wrote about the prediction in his 2013 book, "Four Blood Moons: Something Is About To Change." The prophecy stated that a tetrad which began with the April 2014 lunar eclipse was a sign of the end times as described in the Bible. The tetrad ended with the lunar eclipse on September 27–28, 2015. Hagee and Biltz's speculations did gain mainstream media attention in publications such as USA Today and The Washington Post.[45][46] The prediction was criticized by both scientific sources and other Christians.[47][48][49]
    Last edited by LeeG; 05-15-2018 at 02:52 PM.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    You can imagine the international outrage if a dictatorship did something like this, but when its Israel.......

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    You can imagine the international outrage if a dictatorship did something like this, but when its Israel.......
    I haven’t scanned Murican news but there should be an expression of protest because I do not want Christian nut jobs representing our gov’t.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Now our ambassador to the United Nations says Israel acted with “restraint” in Gaza. 60 dead, 1500 shot in the legs, tear gas released by drones, killing at least one baby. Restraint indeed.
    That fifteen hundred is now over three thousand.

    Hell of a way to celebrate.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Did Kushner remember his flak jacket?
    1_GPNU5IBUkDVqN_7zIc1mog.jpg

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Israeli military spokesman on radio this morning attempting to justifying the shooting and violence. "They were assaulting the border fence".

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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Israeli military spokesman on radio this morning attempting to justifying the shooting and violence. "They were assaulting the border fence".
    "and trying to get through to murder innocent Israelis"

    [I heard that too]
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    An apartheid state.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    and many more will be killed in the months and years to come.
    there is only one 'final solution' to israeli 'palestinian problem'

    sucks that we are in collusion with them
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Every one of these people would be alive today if they had not charged a border fence,, pretty simple.

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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    And Hagee.

    This is what the US Gov’t is presenting to the world. No doubt those who believe Christianity should be expressed as endorsing diplomatic functions are ok with this.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/polit...lem/index.html

    Pastor John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel, delivered the benediction at the ceremony.
    "We thank you, O Lord, for President Donald Trump's courage in acknowledging to the world a truth that was established 3,000 years ago -- that Jerusalem is and always shall be the eternal capital of the Jewish people," Hagee said.
    "And because of that courage of our President, we gather here today to consecrate the ground upon which the United States Embassy will stand reminding the dictators of the world that America and Israel are forever united," he added.
    A major proponent of the embassy move, Hagee said in a recent interview with conservative news site Breitbart that he told Trump he would win "political immortality" for moving the embassy from Tel Aviv.
    "I told him that the moment that you do that, I believe that you will step into political immortality," the news site quoted Hagee as saying. "Because you are having the courage to do what other presidents did not have the courage to do."
    .
    .
    Hagee, whose group is dedicated to organizing pro-Israel Christians in the United States into a unified voice, has had relationships with Israeli prime ministers dating back years. But he came under the national political spotlight in 2008 for comments that prompted then-Republican presidential candidate John McCain to reject his endorsement.
    During the campaign, audio from one of Hagee's sermons in the 1990s was leaked that seemed to suggest that Adolf Hitler had been fulfilling God's will by aiding the desire of Jews to return to Israel in accordance with biblical prophecy.
    "God says in Jeremiah 16: 'Behold, I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave to their fathers. ... Behold, I will send for many fishers, and after will I send for many hunters,'" Hagee said, according to a transcript of his sermon. "'And they the hunters shall hunt them.' That would be the Jews. ... Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone who comes with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter."
    In a statement at the time, McCain said, "Obviously, I find these remarks and others deeply offensive and indefensible, and I repudiate them. I did not know of them before Rev. Hagee's endorsement, and I feel I must reject his endorsement as well."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee
    Personal beliefs Edit

    Hagee believes in Pentecostal practices such as the "baptism of the Holy Spirit." He also believes in the "absolute authority of the scripture," baptism by immersion, and evangelism.[13]

    Hagee believes the Bible commands Christians to support the State of Israel and the Jewish people.[14][15]

    In 2007, Hagee stated that he does not believe in global warming, and he also said that he sees the Kyoto Protocol as a conspiracy aimed at manipulating the U.S. economy.[16] Also, Hagee has condemned the Evangelical Climate Initiative, an initiative "signed by 86 evangelical leaders acknowledging the seriousness of global warming and pledging to press for legislation to limit carbon dioxide emissions."[17]

    Hagee denounces abortion, and stopped giving money to Israel's Hadassah Medical Center when it began performing the procedure.[14]

    In his 2005 book Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World, Hagee interprets the Bible to predict that Russia and the Islamic states will invade Israel and will be destroyed by God. This will cause the antichrist, the head of the European Union, to create a confrontation over Israel between China and the West. The book echoes predictions made in The Late, Great Planet Earth, the best-selling 1970 book co-authored by Hal Lindsey and Carole C. Carlson.

    The Christian Research Institute (among others) has strongly criticized Hagee's 2007 book, In Defense of Israel, for apparently arguing that Jesus did not claim to be the Messiah for the Jews, only the Savior for the Christian Church, and therefore, that attempts should not be made to convert Jews.[18] Hagee issued a statement denying the first of these allegations and promises to revise one chapter in a new edition to make his views clearer.

    44]

    Blood moon prophecy Edit
    Hagee, along with pastor Mark Biltz, promoted the Blood moon prophecy. Hagee wrote about the prediction in his 2013 book, "Four Blood Moons: Something Is About To Change." The prophecy stated that a tetrad which began with the April 2014 lunar eclipse was a sign of the end times as described in the Bible. The tetrad ended with the lunar eclipse on September 27–28, 2015. Hagee and Biltz's speculations did gain mainstream media attention in publications such as USA Today and The Washington Post.[45][46] The prediction was criticized by both scientific sources and other Christians.[47][48][49]
    God bless pastor hagee!

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Every one of these people would be alive today if they had not charged a border fence,, pretty simple.
    A statement that screams ignorance.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    God bless pastor hagee!
    Like I said if you want Evangelical Christianity your national religion represented through the gov’t you probably don’t have a problem with this.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    God bless pastor hagee!
    Hague is a deluded moron.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    I think all the blood shed over this should be on Trump's hands.

    And I am sorry, it's time to stop turning a blind eye to Israel because of what happened 70+ years ago and start holding them accountable for what they are doing to the Palestinians. While the Israelis may not have gas chambers, what they are doing to those people is no less worse than what the 3rd Reich did to the Jews
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    A Canadian doctor wearing blaze orange jacket with the red cross emblazoned front & back was shot in the legs by a sniper as he was tending to the injured at the border. The medic who helped him, a Palestinian who was wearing the white outfit favoured by Red Crescent, was shot in the chest and killed by a sniper shortly after helping the Canadian doctor.

    What civilized military shoots clearly-identified medical personnel?
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    A Canadian doctor wearing blaze orange jacket with the red cross emblazoned front & back was shot in the legs by a sniper as he was tending to the injured at the border. The medic who helped him, a Palestinian who was wearing the white outfit favoured by Red Crescent, was shot in the chest and killed by a sniper shortly after helping the Canadian doctor.

    What civilized military shoots clearly-identified medical personnel?
    Clearly Israel has moved beyond civilized and solidly into barbaric. Any shred of respect for the country I once had has disappeared & I am ashamed that my gov't has aided & abetted.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Every one of these people would be alive today if they had not charged a border fence,, pretty simple.
    That's like saying that all the people who died in the War of Independence deserved it because they shouldn't have been annoyed by taxation without representation.

    It's like saying that the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto deserved to die because they tried to shoot Nazis.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    I can imagine Bobbys looking at the bodies of Americans after the Boston Massacre and saying "every one of those people would be alive today if they had not jeered soldiers of the King, pretty simple."

    boston-massacre-P.jpg

    One can only assume that he and his kin think of Arabs as people who are not worthy of the sort of freedoms that Americans fought for.

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    Default Re: Ceremony at embassy; violence nearby

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    I can imagine Bobbys looking at the bodies of Americans after the Boston Massacre and saying "every one of those people would be alive today if they had not jeered soldiers of the King, pretty simple."

    boston-massacre-P.jpg

    One can only assume that he and his kin think of Arabs as people who are not worthy of the sort of freedoms that Americans fought for.
    Like Juan Cole said:

    Why is it so hard to admit that the Israeli army, and Israeli squatter settlers, routinely kill Palestinians? (If you follow daily news from the West Bank, there is a low intensity conflict there with serious incidents every day.) The current neofascist Israeli government even has adopted a doctrine that Palestinians may be killed at will even when they pose no danger to anyone, if they aren’t doing what Israelis tell them to do.

    It is because the West categorizes Palestinians as dinosaurs, not mammals. They are the last colonial subjects, not citizens. They have no state. There is no contemporary category for them. They are unique. People compare them to West Saharans or Kurds but they are not actually like them. Kurds and Saharans have passports and citizenship in a state. They are subnationalists who want a different citizenship and a different passport, one that does not yet exist. That aspiration is different entirely from being stateless. Palestinians cannot easily travel. They only have a laissez-passer and receiving governments are afraid they will stay. They are all inmates. They often cannot own property, as in Lebanon, or their property is insecure, under constant threat of Israeli expropriation or destruction. Their lives are made of silly putty.

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