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Thread: Better education please

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I've been saying this for years.
    One of the reasons your voice has been missed. None of us wants to confront this uncomfortable, and seemingly intractable, truth. And yet... if we don't... our grand experiment in self-governance will come to naught.
    David G
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Oklahoma is completely Republican run, yet hardly any blacks live there, because they passed a law that said no blacks allowed right after the Civil War.

    That's because The Republican Party is a criminal organization at its core, founded in racism, greed and corruption.
    Who in the heck wants to live in Oklahoma?

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    One of the reasons your voice has been missed. None of us wants to confront this uncomfortable, and seemingly intractable, truth. And yet... if we don't... our grand experiment in self-governance will come to naught.
    The ....grand experiment....is white libs flocking to portland . A black free city to live.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Now, now, David, your supercilious self-satisfaction is wearing thin.

    https://www.amazon.com/Color-Law-For.../dp/1631492853
    I have about run out of patience with his like.... so supercilious it is. But self-satisfaction ain't got nothing to do with it.
    David G
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    "inter-regional violence to the tune of 600,000 dead in 1860".

    Ah yes, when the Democratic Party supported slavery (racism).
    Oh. My. God.

    If you are ever going to grasp this thorny issue, you must first understand that Slavery is an economic system, while Racism is a social disease.

    The two are not interchangeable.

    It is true that Slavery was largely justified by racism in the Western Hemisphere, but there have been, and continue to be, human slaves of every 'race' imaginable, and the majority of their owners neither know nor care about justification past the idea that they bought and paid for that slave.

    One of the central elements that drives this ugly scourge is the knowledge that slavery is wrong, and the reliance upon another evil to justify the first, all in the name of Christianity.

    This lays the foundation for further justification, obfuscation, wheedling and blame peddling.

    Your and bobbys' attempts to blame racism on the Democratic Party demonstrate a wilful and obdurate ignorance, and simply reinforce the notion that you are incapable of grasping the issue.
    Rattling the teacups.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Interesting read here:
    You clearly either haven't read it, or completely disagree with it.
    Rattling the teacups.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I have about run out of patience with his like.... so supercilious it is. But self-satisfaction ain't got nothing to do with it.
    I have no idea what the central tenet of your animosity toward him is, but in this case he is serving up the unvarnished truth.
    Rattling the teacups.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I have no idea what the central tenet of your animosity toward him is, but in this case he is serving up the unvarnished truth.
    OK... I hope you don't think I'm arguing with Mr. Wilson.

    That other fella? He is one of those who knows just enough to be dangerous, and uses it consistently to deflect attention from the whole truth onto those small kernels of veracity that serve as the core - upon which plausible lies are built. The phrase Keith quoted was true enough... as far as it goes. But is disingenuous in that it suggests the crux of the matter is Federal Policy. Since such policy is, indeed, at fault, in many ways... you have the plausible bit. But that's just a piece of the picture, not the whole. An example we've talked about - was the Southern Strategy formulated as part of Federal Policy? No, it was formulated by a particularly heinous cadre from on particular party... for partisan advantage.
    Last edited by David G; 05-15-2018 at 10:32 AM.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Better education please

    One problem we have in the US is that class issues and race issues get mixed together and confused. We have this myth that we don't really have social classes, or that class isn't very significant because we have so much social mobility, which is very largely bullsh!t. And a strategy of the ruling class for centuries, particularly in the south, has been to pit poor whites and poor blacks against each other. It still works, amazingly enough, although you'd think folks would wise up. You think it's a coincidence that some very very rich white people are working hard to promote tribalism?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Even though I overtly stated that my post was intended to mock bobbys' post, you refuse to understand that.
    You posted AFTER by way of trying to weasel out of what you posted.



    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    What was the name of that Jethro Tull album from 1972?

    I can't seem to recall.
    I am sorry to learn that your memory is fading, dementia? I certainly hope not. Here let me help you.

    The Jethro Tull album from 1972 that you are apparently trying to throw at me of is :

    Jethro Tull Album: - Living in the Past (1972)


    While apparently the one that applies to you :

    Jethro Tull
    Album: - Thick As A Brick (1972)

    LOL

    BYE.


    Mike drop.jpeg
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Better education please

    RB, that was actually quite a good article you posted; thanks. A central point is that many people have a whole lot of completely unearned advantages, and that much of one's situation in life is a result of pure luck. Race is one major factor, for obvious reasons, but only one.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    RB, that was actually quite a good article you posted; thanks. A central point is that many people have a whole lot of completely unearned advantages, and that much of one's situation in life is a result of pure luck. Race is one major factor, for obvious reasons, but only one.
    ..., yes there are many many factors.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    One problem we have in the US is that class issues and race issues get mixed together and confused. We have this myth that we don't really have social classes, or that class isn't very significant because we have so much social mobility, which is very largely bullsh!t. And a strategy of the ruling class for centuries, particularly in the south, has been to pit poor whites and poor blacks against each other. It still works, amazingly enough, although you'd think folks would wise up. You think it's a coincidence that some very very rich white people are working hard to promote tribalism?
    Here, unfortunately there are three (among others) main divides: color prejudice (black v white and vice versa), economic differentiation (poor v rich and vice versa) and political belief (one party v white another).

    Probably applies in the USA and other places as well.

    Regretfully, I do not see a solution in the near future.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    ..., yes there are many many factors.
    But her central point was that luck, in the sense of being careful in one's choice of parents, is a huge factor. It certainly was in my case. I was born in a relatively prosperous and peaceful period in a rich county, to two well-educated, healthy, relatively well-off, and loving parents. I'm a straight white male. I'm reasonably bright, with no significant mental or physical troubles. I grew up in a stable and loving home, lived in a reasonably prosperous and safe neighborhood, and had a good education. None of this was my doing. I no more 'earned ' any of it than I earned blue eyes.

    Now some of this is unavoidable; there will always be people who are taller, or smarter, or just luckier. But some of it is the result of historical accidents, and some of it the result of historical evil. Philando Castile is not dead today because of mere bad luck. White folks in the US are not on average much richer than black ones because of genetic superiority or simple luck. We have the moral duty to reduce the results of historical injustice as much as we can, without creating more injustice.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 05-15-2018 at 11:13 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    You posted AFTER by way of trying to weasel out of what you posted.





    I am sorry to learn that your memory is fading, dementia? I certainly hope not. Here let me help you.

    The Jethro Tull album from 1972 that you are apparently trying to throw at me of is :

    Jethro Tull Album: - Living in the Past (1972)


    While apparently the one that applies to you :

    Jethro Tull
    Album: - Thick As A Brick (1972)

    LOL

    BYE.


    Mike drop.jpeg

    I have no desire to 'weasel out of' the use of satire and/or irony.

    The fact that it goes right past your ability to comprehend it is not my problem.

    Thick as a brick.
    Rattling the teacups.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    We have the moral duty to reduce the results of historical injustice as much as we can, without creating more injustice.
    And if you can't go for moral duty, how about this: it's in our interest. What's that Republican saying . . . a rising tide lifts all boats? Don't you want a rising tide? Don't you want your boat lifted?
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Slavery/White Privilege/Racism is the festering sore that gnaws away at the Constitution every day.
    I am not too worried about the Constitution. But I am worried about our country. It could be a nice place to live for everyone.

    I am worried by people who want more/better education, but who stood by for the last four decades and watched a couple generations of students do with little education.
    Life is complex.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    The ....grand experiment....is white libs flocking to portland . A black free city to live.
    So, the black folks I see in Portland, they're really white folks in "blackface"? I go there frequently.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    So, the black folks I see in Portland, they're really white folks in "blackface"? I go there frequently.
    Don't bother. Bubbles is the very personification of 'motivated reasoning'. Facts only matter if they can be spun to bolster a narrative. Truth... not at all.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Oklahoma is completely Republican run, yet hardly any blacks live there, because they passed a law that said no blacks allowed right after the Civil War.

    That's because The Republican Party is a criminal organization at its core, founded in racism, greed and corruption.
    The history revisionist strikes again. “Oklahoma” wasn’t passing many laws “right after the Civil War”, they mostly came after statehood in 1907. It’s estimated that there were 50 all black towns at one point. Here’s a short history of blacks in Oklahoma: http://www.okhistory.org/publication...AN%20AMERICANS
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    The history revisionist strikes again. “Oklahoma” wasn’t passing many laws “right after the Civil War”, they mostly came after statehood in 1907. It’s estimated that there were 50 all black towns at one point. Here’s a short history of blacks in Oklahoma: http://www.okhistory.org/publication...AN%20AMERICANS

    Don't bother, someone already states (under their name) that he/she is 'Historical Illiterate'.





    IE
    Onzabrag.jpeg
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Hooked ANOTHER one!
    Rattling the teacups.

  23. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Don't bother, someone already states (under their name) that he/she is 'Historical Illiterate'.





    IE
    Onzabrag.jpeg
    That quality is more prevalent around here than upsiide down flags.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Rummy, you couldn't be more wrong, even with greater effort. It's pathetic.

    https://www.mediaite.com/online/yes-...ses-the-point/
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Rummy, you couldn't be more wrong, even with greater effort. It's pathetic.

    https://www.mediaite.com/online/yes-...ses-the-point/

    https://www.mediaite.com/online/yes-...ses-the-point/ Still backs up what my observations are but leaves out a lot.

    Noted that "Mediaite presents news with a left wing bias in reporting choices".

    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mediaite/

    LEFT BIAS

    These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy.
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 05-15-2018 at 02:38 PM.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Yeah, lots of 'sources', all pointing out - the shift in the party stances, from the Southern Democrats to todays Republican party. We get it.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    He is but a living, breathing, example of the importance... and lack... of the thread title.
    And you said you don't insult people. Me in particular. I only have a couple federal court decisions one from the Supreme Court that support my claim. But I guess that does not advance your narrative.

    I will say again, in case I was not clear: I believe that recent history provides a better basis for the study of current racism and its causes than the history of you suggest. And the study of current history might be more relevant to students whose parents and grandparents were party to the history.
    Life is complex.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Noted that "Mediaite presents news with a left wing bias in reporting choices".
    Data and facts tend to support a progressive approach - simply because; "what we have now can be improved, therefore we should progress with change".
    Conservatives take any kind of debate or questioning of their position to be all out criticism. We see it time and time again here on the forum.

    Put the two of those together and you get a bunch of people crying foul every time the media present facts.
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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    . . . you get a bunch of people crying foul every time the media present facts.
    That would apply to both sides of the political arena.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Better education please

    RP, Mediate does indeed lean left, but their description of the development of the political parties in the US, and how they've shifted both regionally and ideologically over time is reasonably accurate. From the end of Reconstruction in 1877 to the 'southern strategy' and the civil rights laws of the 1960s, the ex-Confederacy was both solidly conservative and voted solidly Democratic. White voters only, of course, since blacks were prevented from voting by a variety of strategies, legal and otherwise. Those who opposed the civil rights movement in the south were almost all Democrats; Bull Connor was a Democrat, the elected Commissioner of Public Safety for Birmingham, Alabama. George Wallace started as a Democrat. 'Pitchfork' Ben Tillman, God help us, was a Democrat. Today's Democratic and Republican parties are very, very different from the parties with the same names 100 years ago.

    Starting about 1960 and finishing up around 1980, conservative white voters in the ex-Confederacy switched parties. You can see the process very clearly on the electoral maps of presidential elections; look here. Before that point, US political parties weren't divided entirely on left-right ideological lines, nor as much on rural-urban lines as they are today. There were liberal northern Democrats and conservative southern ones, center-left northeastern Republicans and conservative western ones. Today (even before Trump) the parties are divided on pretty strict left-right lines, and this makes them also regional - the mountain west and the ex-Confederacy are solid Republican, the west coast and northeast pretty solid Democratic. The division is also largely rural-urban; the electoral map shows blue cities surrounded by purple suburbs and red countryside.

    Honestly, if anyone tries to criticize today's Democratic party by pointing out racist southern Democrats in the past, they're bullsh!tting you with carefully-selected partial facts, writing propaganda rather than history.

    Here's a map of the last presidential election, color proportional to the percentage of the vote, area proportional to population. You can easily pick out every major city.

    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Gosh, Keith. You just eviscerated his argument. Now all he's got to get through the day, is chasing a bunch of dogs.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Honestly, if anyone tries to criticize today's Democratic party by pointing out racist southern Democrats in the past, they're bullsh!tting you with carefully-selected partial facts, writing propaganda rather than history.
    You certainly know how to mislead. I pointed out a couple federal court decisions that say both political parties have practiced racial discrimination for 50 years. Including 30 years after a federal court told them to stop. The Republicans or Democrats of old have passed down a great deal of racism to the present Democrats. Racism by party in this country is only a matter of degree.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    .I am intentionally vague about that case...
    Can't do much with that...

  34. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Racism by party in this country is only a matter of degree.
    That may be true, but the difference of degree is very large. It is only a very slight exaggeration to say that the Republicans are currently the White Man's Party. This is not a viable long-term strategy, but they aren't thinking long-term.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    That may be true, but the difference of degree is very large. It is only a very slight exaggeration to say that the Republicans are currently the White Man's Party. This is not a viable long-term strategy, but they aren't thinking long-term.
    Nope.

    They're waiting for the Democrats to sweep the mid-terms, so that their Sleazy Jesus can pronounce the elections 'rigged' and declare martial law.

    That's why he has his big military parade set for November 11th, just after the coup.

    The Prophet has spoken.

    Only half in jest.
    Rattling the teacups.

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