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Thread: Better education please

  1. #1
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    Default Better education please

    https://thinkprogress.org/america-is...-89560f69ec4d/

    Earlier this year, in an effort to address and correct the miseducation of U.S. schoolchildren, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), released a year-long study that will hopefully point the way toward better informing future generations of students about American history.

    The studyís report, Teaching Hard History: American Slavery, found that many school kids donít know the history of slavery in America because itís either not been taught to them in school ó or, when it is taught, itís inaccurately portrayed to support false narratives which glorify white Americansí views of themselves. The consequence of this type of miseducation has been to produce generation after generation of students who graduate with a fundamental misunderstanding of how and why racial disparities and antagonisms exist today. As the reportís executive summary makes clear:

    Slaveryís long reach continues into the present day. The persistent and wide socioeconomic and legal disparities that African Americans face today and the backlash that seems to follow every African-American advancement trace their roots to slavery and its aftermath. If we are to understand the world today, we must understand slaveryís history and continuing impact.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Better education please

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/o...ol-left-region
    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/o...d-ghettos.html

    The Supreme Court issued an important ruling last month when it reminded state and local governments that the Fair Housing Act of 1968 bars them from spending federal housing money in a manner that perpetuates racial segregation.
    Last week [August 2015], the Obama administration took an even more important step
    I agree with you, the SPLC, and other reports.

    But you need to realize that it took a black man and Constitutional lawyer 5 years as President and a reminder from the Supreme Court to come to grips with the issue.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Slavery’s long reach continues into the present day. The persistent and wide socioeconomic and legal disparities that African Americans face today and the backlash that seems to follow every African-American advancement trace their roots to slavery and its aftermath. If we are to understand the world today, we must understand slavery’s history and continuing impact.
    If we accept this, and I do think it's true, then we must start to ask some unpleasant and politically charged questions.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...s-commit-crime

    African Americans represent 13% of the population, but commit roughly 50% of the homicides.

    Statistically, blacks harm blacks and whites harm whites. Black-on-black homicide is roughly at the same overall rate as white-on-white homicide, but as the above indicates this violence touches a larger percentage of the black population than it does the white population.

    When will we begin the discussion that asks, "Why do African Americans kill each other at a greater rate per person than whites?" We can blame economics, and that's probably a true cause. Is it the whole cause?

    If we blame the far-reaching hand of slavery, musn't we also admit that part of that reach includes the destruction of a viable black culture? And doesn't that mean that we must be willing to criticize the African American culture from which so much violence stems? We cannot always point the finger outside the population that has the problem when looking for the source. Some of it begins at home. This is not a condemnation of all African American families - far from it. Statistically, most families are good, law-abiding, hard-working, and disadvantaged. That does not mean that we cannot or should not have an honest and critical assessment of all the problems that lead to violence in this nation. If both sides of the divide are unwilling to work together to solve shared problems, then the problems will never be solved.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    When will we begin the discussion that asks, "Why do African Americans kill each other at a greater rate per person than whites?" We can blame economics, and that's probably a true cause. Is it the whole cause?

    If we blame the far-reaching hand of slavery, mustn't we also admit that part of that reach includes the destruction of a viable black culture?
    I don't see a problem in saying the problems are both economic and cultural. I don't think many people dream of being born into in the economics and culture of poor black urban neighborhoods. Yet, that is where federal policy has placed a large number of black people.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I don't see a problem in saying the problems are both economic and cultural. I don't think many people dream of being born into in the economics and culture of poor black urban neighborhoods. Yet, that is where federal policy has placed a large number of black people.
    I do not think your view of cause and effect is correct. You seem to disregard the racial segregation of the 50s and 60s and before that resulted in a strong economic segregation as well. This was not invented by contemporary federal laws and social policies. You may be able to argue that those laws were less thane effective in correcting the problem, but they did not cause it.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I do not think your view of cause and effect is correct. You seem to disregard the racial segregation of the 50s and 60s and before that resulted in a strong economic segregation as well. This was not invented by contemporary federal laws and social policies. You may be able to argue that those laws were less thane effective in correcting the problem, but they did not cause it.
    I agree with you.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I don't think many people dream of being born into in the economics and culture of poor black urban neighborhoods. Yet, that is where federal policy has placed a large number of black people.
    Eh? What in the world are you talking about? Exactly how has "federal policy placed a large number of black people in poor urban neighborhoods?" Legal segregation, possibly, but 'federal policy'?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Eh? What in the world are you talking about? Exactly how has "federal policy placed a large number of black people in poor urban neighborhoods?" Legal segregation, possibly, but 'federal policy'?
    He is but a living, breathing, example of the importance... and lack... of the thread title.
    David G
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Poor people commit more crimes because they don't have the money to commit big crimes. They have to do a large volume of diddly S ones. If you count dollars, white people are the criminalest.
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Eh? What in the world are you talking about? Exactly how has "federal policy placed a large number of black people in poor urban neighborhoods?" Legal segregation, possibly, but 'federal policy'?
    IN the mid 80's there was a federal court decision that said the federal government practiced unconstitutional discrimination that led to segregation. A Supreme Court decision in 2015 said the same. One of the links I posted concerned the second case.

    Yes. The liberal Democratic President Barack Obama had his Attorney General defend in court a policy that was known to be unsupportable, immoral, and unconstitutional. So much for liberal beliefs. So much for the Democratic Party.

    But that is OK. Clinton practiced the same policy for 8 years as President. Johnson was the first President to do so. (I will leave it to others to indicate the Republican Presidents who also supported the policy.)

    I made a mistake earlier today. I said Obama practiced this behavior for 5 years. It was 7 years. That is in line with some comments I made a year or so ago. At that time I made a comment about Obama and the unconstitutional practice thinking that a reporter had asked a question about the mid 80's court decision. I thought that Obama had just found out about the practice. t appears the reporter was asking a question about the 2015 court decision where Obama actively fought for continuation of the unsupportable, immoral, and unconstitutional practice.

    (I am really on a roll today.)
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    He is but a living, breathing, example of the importance... and lack... of the thread title.
    I often have similar feelings.

    I was unaware of the federal policy until well after the mid 80's. I look at segregation much differently now than in prior years. I also look at solutions to the race problems much differently now.

    But then I look at your comments much differently than I used to. You seem to be stuck with an undergraduate mind. That is a shame.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    One thing I have always wondered, did the colonists, and then the citizens of the young Republic go looking for slaves, or did they find Africans looking to sell other Africans? Did they start the slave trade, or jump on the bandwagon of a going concern?

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    One thing I have always wondered, did the colonists, and then the citizens of the young Republic go looking for slaves, or did they find Africans looking to sell other Africans? Did they start the slave trade, or jump on the bandwagon of a going concern?
    No they didn't start it. But used it for their advantage. I grew up in and spend a lot of time in the Mississippi-Yazoo Delta. That was the last part of Mississippi to be settled by white people. In the early 1800s, the delta was a heavily forested wilderness which was flooded by the rising Mississippi and other rivers every year. It was settled by people with the money and slaves to clear the land, build levees to protect from flooding, and plant, raise and harvest the crops. Since that time, it has always had more blacks than whites. Washington county is now 70% black. Up until about 1970, almost all blacks went to all black schools. The schools were claimed to be separate but equal. They were never equal. After the early 1970s, all whites with the means left the public school system and quit voting to support it. The public schools there are very poor. Many blacks used to be employed by agriculture. Modern farming uses very few people. The population of the county has dropped from over 78,000 in 1960 to an estimated 47,000 in 2016. It is about 70 miles to the nearest Interstate highway. When you combine poor schools, few jobs, lower pay and fewer opportunities for blacks and a nation wide drug problem, it adds up to more crime.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Better education please. The lack is why we have some here arguing nonsense, half-truths, and logical cowflop.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    https://thinkprogress.org/america-is...-89560f69ec4d/

    Earlier this year, in an effort to address and correct the miseducation of U.S. schoolchildren, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), released a year-long study that will hopefully point the way toward better informing future generations of students about American history.

    The study’s report, Teaching Hard History: American Slavery, found that many school kids don’t know the history of slavery in America because it’s either not been taught to them in school — or, when it is taught, it’s inaccurately portrayed to support false narratives which glorify white Americans’ views of themselves. The consequence of this type of miseducation has been to produce generation after generation of students who graduate with a fundamental misunderstanding of how and why racial disparities and antagonisms exist today. As the report’s executive summary makes clear:

    Slavery’s long reach continues into the present day. The persistent and wide socioeconomic and legal disparities that African Americans face today and the backlash that seems to follow every African-American advancement trace their roots to slavery and its aftermath. If we are to understand the world today, we must understand slavery’s history and continuing impact.
    I've been saying this for years.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Eh? What in the world are you talking about? Exactly how has "federal policy placed a large number of black people in poor urban neighborhoods?" Legal segregation, possibly, but 'federal policy'?
    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    He is but a living, breathing, example of the importance... and lack... of the thread title.
    Now, now, David, your supercilious self-satisfaction is wearing thin.

    https://www.amazon.com/Color-Law-For.../dp/1631492853
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    https://thinkprogress.org/america-is...-89560f69ec4d/

    Earlier this year, in an effort to address and correct the miseducation of U.S. schoolchildren, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), released a year-long study that will hopefully point the way toward better informing future generations of students about American history.

    The study’s report, Teaching Hard History: American Slavery, found that many school kids don’t know the history of slavery in America because it’s either not been taught to them in school — or, when it is taught, it’s inaccurately portrayed to support false narratives which glorify white Americans’ views of themselves. The consequence of this type of miseducation has been to produce generation after generation of students who graduate with a fundamental misunderstanding of how and why racial disparities and antagonisms exist today. As the report’s executive summary makes clear:

    Slavery’s long reach continues into the present day. The persistent and wide socioeconomic and legal disparities that African Americans face today and the backlash that seems to follow every African-American advancement trace their roots to slavery and its aftermath. If we are to understand the world today, we must understand slavery’s history and continuing impact.
    Yes education is important.

    While not wishing to diminish the horrors of slavery, e.g. here many people believe that all slave owners lived in (modern) luxury and would get up and whip and torture slaves from morning to night every day for their own sadistic pleasure.

    It all depends which 'snippets' of history one wishes to select and run with.

    Also contrary to apparent current popular belief, slavery was not restricted to the West Indies and the USA.
    It continues today world wide but many don't wish to believe it.
    EG this report in 2018 :
    In recent months, it has been revealed that African migrants and refugees have been sold in open markets as slaves in Libya, and are held against their will in inhumane conditions in exchange for ransom money.
    The revelations sent shock waves globally and sparked protests outside Libyan embassies across Africa and Europe
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/01/slavery-libya-life-container-180121084314393.html
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 05-15-2018 at 08:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    One thing I have always wondered, did the colonists, and then the citizens of the young Republic go looking for slaves, or did they find Africans looking to sell other Africans? Did they start the slave trade, or jump on the bandwagon of a going concern?
    African Slave Owners

    Many societies in Africa with kings and hierarchical forms of government traditionally kept slaves. But these were mostly used for domestic purposes. They were an indication of power and wealth and not used for commercial gain. However, with the appearance of Europeans desperate to buy slaves for use in the Americas, the character of African slave ownership changed.

    GROWING RICH WITH SLAVERY
    ROYALTY
    In the early 18th century, Kings of Dahomey (known today as Benin) became big players in the slave trade, waging a bitter war on their neighbours, resulting in the capture of 10,000, including another important slave trader, the King of Whydah. King Tegbesu made £250,000 a year selling people into slavery in 1750. King Gezo said in the 1840's he would do anything the British wanted him to do apart from giving up slave trade:

    "The slave trade is the ruling principle of my people. It is the source and the glory of their wealth…the mother lulls the child to sleep with notes of triumph over an enemy reduced to slavery…"

    LIVING WITNESS
    Some of the descendants of African traders are alive today. Mohammed Ibrahim Babatu is the great great grandson of Baba-ato (also known as Babatu), the famous Muslim slave trader, who was born in Niger and conducted his slave raids in Northern Ghana in the 1880's. Mohammed Ibrahim Babatu, the deputy head teacher of a Junior secondary school in Yendi, lives in Ghana.

    "In our curriculum, we teach a little part of the history of our land. Because some of the children ask questions about the past history of our grandfather Babatu.

    Babatu, and others, didn't see anything wrong with slavery. They didn't have any knowledge of what the people were used for. They were only aware that some of the slaves would serve others of the royal families within the sub-region.

    He has done a great deal of harm to the people of Africa. I have studied history and I know the effect of slavery.

    I have seen that the slave raids did harm to Africa, but some members of our family feel he was ignorant…we feel that what he did was fine, because it has given the family a great fame within the Dagomba society.

    He gave some of the slaves to the Dagombas and then he sent the rest of the slaves to the Salaga market. He didn't know they were going to plantations…he was ignorant…"

    Listen to Mohammed Ibrahim Babatu, great great grandson of the famous Muslim slave trader Baba-ato

    SONGHAY
    The young Moroccan traveler and commentator, Leo Africanus, was amazed at the wealth and quantity of slaves to be found in Gao, the capital of Songhay, which he visited in 1510 and 1513 when the empire was at the height of its power under Askiya Mohammed.

    "...here there is a certain place where slaves are sold, especially on those days when the merchants are assembled. And a young slave of fifteen years of age is sold for six ducats, and children are also sold. The king of this region has a certain private palace where he maintains a great number of concubines and slaves."

    SWAHILI
    The ruling class of coastal Swahili society - Sultans, government officials and wealthy merchants - used non-Muslim slaves as domestic servants and to work on farms and estates. The craftsmen, artisans and clerks tended to by Muslim and freed men. But the divisions between the different classes were often very flexible. The powerful slave and ivory trader Tippu Tip was the grandson of a slave.

    Listen to historian Abdul Sheriff introducing Tippu Tip's autobiography followed by a BBC dramatisation of the slave trader's own writing

    The Omani Sultan, Seyyid Said, became immensely rich when he started up cloves plantations in 1820 with slave labour - so successful was he that he moved the Omani capital to Zanzibar in 1840.
    Find out more about the Swahilis

    PUNISHED FOR KEEPING SLAVES
    The Asanti (the capital, Kumasi, is in modern Ghana) had a long tradition of domestic slavery. But gold was the main commodity for selling. With the arrival of Europeans the slaves displaced gold as the main commodity for trade. As late as 1895 the British Colonial Office was not concerned by this.

    "It would be a mistake to frighten the King of Kumasi and the Ashantis generally on the question of slavery. We cannot sweep away their customs and institutions all at once. Domestic slavery should not be troubled at present."

    British attitudes changed when the King of the Asanti (the Asantehene) resisted British colonial authority. The suppression of the slave trade became a justification for the extension of European power. With the humiliation and exile of King Prempeh I in 1896, the Asanti were placed under the authority of the Governor of the Gold Coast and forced therefore to conform to British law and abolish the slave trade.

    SLAVERY DECREED BY THE GODS
    In 1807, Britain declared all slave trading illegal. The king of Bonny (in what is now the Nigerian delta) was dismayed at the conclusion of the practice.

    "We think this trade must go on. That is the verdict of our oracle and the priests. They say that your country, however great, can never stop a trade ordained by God himself."
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/af...chapter2.shtml
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    Default Re: Better education please

    And, please, let's also teach some science, people!

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    Quite a lot of information on this site:
    http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/i...gy/background/

    Indians were also used - significant Indian population in Trinidad.
    Irish and others were also used - indentured labour) and also criminals were used.

    Why were Africans enslaved?

    Channels of wealth flowing from the New World to the Old were based largely on the cultivation of crops like sugar, tobacco, and coffee. These crops figured importantly in European rituals of conspicuous consumption. Profits for a plantation owner depended on the number of labourers he controlled. The key to wealth for plantation owners was employing many labourers, while keeping costs low. Free European labourers demanded high wages. In the long run, the cost of enslaved labourers was lower.
    Initially Europeans tried enslaving Native Americans. But Native peoples lacked genetic immunities to Old-World diseases like smallpox and malaria and suffered catastrophic mortality - over 90% of the native population of the Americas perished from Old-World diseases after contact. Africans, on the other hand, possessed the required immunities. Europeans discovered this by the early 1500s and the transatlantic slave trade developed rapidly to fill the demand.
    In the notorious triangular trade, ships departed from Bristol, Liverpool and other ports in England carrying trade goods, such as beads, cloth and guns, to West Africa, where they exchanged their goods for enslaved Africans who were then transported to the Caribbean, South America, and American colonies to work on the plantations. The vessels returned home with sugar, tobacco and cotton, the produce of the enslaved workforce. Before 1820, more than 80% of the people arriving in the New World were enslaved Africans. It is estimated that 12 million enslaved Africans were transported to the Americas.
    Further information is available in the history of the transatlantic slave trade section of the International Slavery Museum website.
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    Cont'd

    Sugar and slavery

    The introduction of sugar cultivation to St Kitts in the 1640s and its subsequent rapid growth led to the development of the plantation economy which depended on the labour of imported enslaved Africans. African slaves became increasingly sought after to work in the unpleasant conditions of heat and humidity.
    European planters thought Africans would be more suited to the conditions than their own countrymen, as the climate resembled that the climate of their homeland in West Africa.
    Enslaved Africans were also much less expensive to maintain than indentured European servants or paid wage labourers.

    The main reason for importing enslaved Africans was economic.
    In 1650 an African slave could be bought for as little as £7 although the price rose so that by 1690 a slave cost £17-22, and a century later between £40 and £50.
    In comparison, in the 17th century a white indentured labourer or servant would cost a planter £10 for only a few years’ work but would cost the same in food, shelter and clothing.
    Consequently, after 1660 very few new white servants reached St Kitts or Nevis; the Black enslaved Africans had taken their place. ( Bridenaugh and Bridenaugh 1972, 266; Edwards 1793 II, 118)

    As a consequence of these events, the size of the Black population in the Caribbean rose dramatically in the latter part of the 17th century.
    In the 1650s when sugar started to take over from tobacco as the main cash crop on Nevis, enslaved Africans formed only 20% of the population.
    By the census of 1678 the Black population had risen to 3849 against a white population of 3521.
    By the early 18th century when sugar production was fully established nearly 80% of the population was Black.
    The great increase in the Black population was feared by the white plantation owners and as a result treatment often became harsher as they felt a growing need to control a larger but discontented and potentially rebellious workforce. (Fog Olwig 1993, 34)

    Enslaved Africans were often treated harshly.
    First they had to survive the appalling conditions on the voyage from West Africa, known as the Middle Passage.
    The death rate was high. One recent estimate is that 12% of all Africans transported on British ships between 1701 and 1807 died en route to the West Indies and North America; others put the figure as high as 25%.
    Nearly 350,000 Africans were transported to the Leeward Islands by 1810 (Curtin 1969, 268, table 77) but many died on the voyage through disease or ill treatment; some were driven by despair to commit suicide by jumping into the sea.

    Once they arrived in the Caribbean islands, the Africans were prepared for sale. They were washed and their skin was oiled. Finally they were sold to local buyers. Often parents were separated from children, and husbands from wives.
    The plantation relied almost solely on an imported enslaved workforce, and became an agricultural factory concentrating on one profitable crop for sale.
    Enslaved Africans were forced to engage in a variety of laborious activities, all of them back-breaking. The work in the fields was gruelling, with long hours spent in the hot sun, supervised by overseers who were quick to use the whip.
    Tasks ranged from clearing land, planting cane, and harvesting canes by hand, to manuring and weeding.
    The plantation relied on an imported enslaved workforce, rather than family labour, and became an agricultural factory concentrating on one profitable crop for sale.

    Inside the plantation works, the conditions were often worse, especially the heat of the boiling house.
    Additionally, the hours were long, especially at harvest time.
    The death rate on the plantations was high, a result of overwork, poor nutrition and work conditions, brutality and disease.
    Many plantation owners preferred to import new slaves rather than providing the means and conditions for the survival of their existing slaves.
    Until the Amelioration Act was passed in 1798, which forced planters to improve conditions for enslaved workers, many owners simply replaced the casualties by importing more slaves from West Africa.

    (Bridenaugh and Bridenaugh 1972, 266; Edwards 1793 II, 118)
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Portland is completly democratic run, yet no average black family can afford to live there, they were chased out but white liberals ...homesteading black neighborhoods, the OP and liberals look to racism everywhere but under their own nose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Yes education is important.

    While not wishing to diminish the horrors of slavery, e.g. here many people believe that all slave owners lived in (modern) luxury and would get up and whip and torture slaves from morning to night every day for their own sadistic pleasure.

    It all depends which 'snippets' of history one wishes to select and run with.

    Also contrary to apparent current popular belief, slavery was not restricted to the West Indies and the USA.
    It continues today world wide but many don't wish to believe it.
    EG this report in 2018 :
    Uh . . .


    You say you don't want to diminish the horrors, then set out to diminish the horrors.

    The average slave was not whipped/raped/beaten from morning to night, it's true. One would not take a ball pein hammer to his Mercedes every day either.

    Every slave WAS, however, owned outright by another human being 'round the clock every day from birth to death, and THAT is the horror.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Portland is completly democratic run, yet no average black family can afford to live there, they were chased out but white liberals ...homesteading black neighborhoods, the OP and liberals look to racism everywhere but under their own nose.
    Oklahoma is completely Republican run, yet hardly any blacks live there, because they passed a law that said no blacks allowed right after the Civil War.

    That's because The Republican Party is a criminal organization at its core, founded in racism, greed and corruption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Portland is completly democratic run, yet no average black family can afford to live there, they were chased out but white liberals ...homesteading black neighborhoods, the OP and liberals look to racism everywhere but under their own nose.
    In Barbados that is often referred to as 'economic eviction' on that the basis that a Bajan has his lot on the beach (usually West Coast) and is happy in say "his chattel house and vegetable garden"
    Then comes somebody with a lot of money.
    So much it is often too much to turn down.
    The Bajan sells moves to another area bought at a much less price and lives with balance of funds.
    The rich person then buys the next lot and then builds a big villa on the combined properties.
    Then; it has happened; a richer guy comes along and buys two (of those combined) lots with million dollar villas, demolished both villas and then builds a multi (over 10) million dollar villa on those lots.
    Thus no Bajan (well perhaps excepting a few like COWilliams) can afford to live there.
    Thus not racist, but monetary.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Oklahoma is completely Republican run, yet hardly any blacks live there, because they passed a law that said no blacks allowed right after the Civil War.

    That's because The Republican Party is a criminal organization at its core, founded in racism, greed and corruption.
    Erm, and the Democratic Party ?:

    Racism:
    The Democratic Party was a proponent for slave-owners across the country.
    Greed and Corruption:
    Northern Democrats nominated Stephen Douglas as their candidate, and Southern Democrats adopted a pro-slavery platform and nominated John C. Breckinridge in an election campaign

    that would be won by Abraham Lincoln and the newly formed Republican Party.
    So you are stating that Former President Lincoln was 'greedy and corrupt' ?

    Didn't Former President Lincoln and the Republican Party abolish slavery?

    Interestingly it seems little has changed (since 27 February 1860) 258 years in the references to Republicans by non-republicans/Democratic Party supporters
    e.g. See Mrs Clinton and others on this forum. LOL

    During the presidential campaign in 1860, at a time of escalating tension between the North and South, Abraham Lincoln addressed the harsh treatment of Republicans in the South in his famous Cooper Union speech:
    [W]hen you speak of us Republicans, you do so only to denounce us as reptiles*, or, at the best, as no better than outlaws. You will grant a hearing to pirates or murderers, but nothing like it to "Black Republicans". ... But you will not abide the election of a Republican president! In that supposed event, you say, you will destroy the Union; and then, you say, the great crime of having destroyed it will be upon us! That is cool. A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, "Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!"
    * or 'deplorables' etc. LOL
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 05-15-2018 at 09:19 AM.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Now, now, David, your supercilious self-satisfaction is wearing thin.
    You need to realize that David G like most people want people educated for the purpose of having them know the "true" story. David G knows the "true" story. I find that discouraging. It was only in the past 10 years that I realized that education should make a person disbelieve all he knows. I am sure as he ages Gavid G will examine his beliefs in greater detail.

    Your book reference might be worthy of reading by liberals and Democrats. Perhaps even by constitutional scholars. I don't know if it covers the mid 80's court case.

    I am intentionally vague about that case. I used to know more, but time is bad for my memories. It happened in the Baltimore Federal District Court. It concerned a rule from HUD or some similar agency. An innocuous rule: The government would only guarantee loans for building housing if the housing did not affect the racial balance of the community.

    The rule was implemented as: The government guaranteed loans for building housing for white people in white neighborhoods. The government was forbidden from guaranteeing loans for building housing for black people in white neighborhoods. One might view that as a form of red-lining.

    The lack of a federal loan guarantee resulted in higher loan rates - if loans were available, and less profit for the investors. A consequence was: Few if any housing projects were began with the intent of integrating white neighborhoods. That kept schools segregated.

    The District court determined that the rule was racial discrimination and led to segregation, and ruled in favor of Baltimore. The federal government paid damages to Baltimore. It did so because it would have lost in the Appeals Court and had to pay damages throughout the appellate region. And it would have lost at the Supreme Court and had to pay damages throughout the country. The federal government continued with the practice except in Baltimore. I have no idea how the 2015 decision is going to change the situation. It certainly will not make up for the 30 years since the prior decision. Not even for the 8 years of Obama's administration.



    Both you and I seem to realize that the effects of slavery are rather significant even today. It seems that your book reference has material necessary for a full education.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Erm, and the Democratic Party ?:

    Racism:

    Greed and Corruption:

    So you are stating that Former President Lincoln was 'greedy and corrupt' ?

    Didn't Former President Lincoln and the Republican Party abolish slavery?

    Interestingly it seems little has changed (since 27 February 1860) 258 years in the references to Republicans by non-republicans/Democratic Party supporters
    e.g. See Mrs Clinton and others on this forum. LOL


    * or 'deplorables' etc. LOL
    Soooo, I take it you agree that the bobbys comment I lampooned is asinine, correct?
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Soooo, I take it you agree that the bobbys comment I lampooned is asinine, correct?
    You avoid addressing points made regarding your statement "That's because The Republican Party is a criminal organization at its core, founded in racism, greed and corruption." and . . .

    Woosh! . . . and another post goes straight over your head.

    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    . . .
    Both you and I seem to realize that the effects of slavery are rather significant even today. It seems that your book reference has material necessary for a full education.
    Slavery/White Privilege/Racism is the festering sore that gnaws away at the Constitution every day.

    It is the fatal flaw in our society.

    It fuels the division.

    It is easily exploited by populist demagogues to break down any semblance of justice.

    It erupted into inter-regional violence to the tune of 600,000 dead in 1860, and despite massive efforts at eradication a hundred years later it is now poised to rip this nation to shreds in the unprecedented horror of a true civil war, complete with genocide.

    There are participants on this forum who have all but openly advocated for the destruction of our republic through liberal genocide for the purpose of enforcing their own need for white privilege, however it may be disguised and buried within their souls.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    You avoid addressing points made regarding your statement "That's because The Republican Party is a criminal organization at its core, founded in racism, greed and corruption." and . . .

    Woosh! . . . and another post goes straight over your head.

    You are incorrect.

    It is MY post that has gone over YOUR head.

    Even though I overtly stated that my post was intended to mock bobbys' post, you refuse to understand that.

    What was the name of that Jethro Tull album from 1972?

    I can't seem to recall.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Interestingly it seems little has changed (since 27 February 1860) 258 years in the references to Republicans by non-republicans/Democratic Party supporters
    Lordy. So supporters of one party have often said nasty things about supporters of the other. But remember that February 1860 was nine months before the secession of South Carolina and and beginning of the US Civil War, and one would expect that the rhetoric would have been getting a bit overheated.

    It should be obvious that while US political parties may have the same names as they did 150 years ago, the similarity ends there.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Better education please

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Slavery/White Privilege/Racism is the festering sore that gnaws away at the Constitution every day.

    It is the fatal flaw in our society.

    It fuels the division.

    It is easily exploited by populist demagogues to break down any semblance of justice.

    It erupted into inter-regional violence to the tune of 600,000 dead in 1860, and despite massive efforts at eradication a hundred years later it is now poised to rip this nation to shreds in the unprecedented horror of a true civil war, complete with genocide.

    There are participants on this forum who have all but openly advocated for the destruction of our republic through liberal genocide for the purpose of enforcing their own need for white privilege, however it may be disguised and buried within their souls.

    "inter-regional violence to the tune of 600,000 dead in 1860".

    Ah yes, when the Democratic Party supported slavery (racism).
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Better education please

    The OP has no solutions nor ideas for whats happening right under his nose yet he digs out racism everywhere else to relive his white liberal guilt.

    Cue the white libs from cape cod.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Slavery/White Privilege/Racism is the festering sore that gnaws away at the Constitution every day.

    Interesting read here:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/gina-...b_5269255.htmlExplaining White Privilege To A Broke White Person



    By Gina Crosley-Corcoran

    Years ago some feminist on the Internet told me I was “privileged.”

    “THE F&CK!?!?” I said.

    I came from the kind of poor that people don’t want to believe still exists in this country.
    Have you ever spent a frigid northern-Illinois winter without heat or running water?
    I have.
    At 12 years old were you making ramen noodles in a coffee maker with water you fetched from a public bathroom?
    I was.
    Have you ever lived in a camper year-round and used a random relative’s apartment as your mailing address?
    We did.
    Did you attend so many different elementary schools that you can only remember a quarter of their names?
    Welcome to my childhood.

    This is actually a much nicer trailer setup than the one I grew up in.

    So when that feminist told me I had “white privilege,” I told her that my white skin didn’t do **** to prevent me from experiencing poverty.

    Then, like any good, educated feminist would, she directed me to Peggy McIntosh’s now-famous 1988 piece “White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack.”

    After one reads McIntosh’s powerful essay, it’s impossible to deny that being born with white skin in America affords people certain unearned privileges in life that people of other skin colors simply are not afforded. For example:

    “I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.”


    “When I am told about our national heritage or about ‘civilization,’ I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.”

    “If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.”

    “I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.”


    If you read through the rest of the list, you can see how white people and people of color experience the world in very different ways. But listen: This is not said to make white people feel guilty about their privilege. It’s not your fault that you were born with white skin and experience these privileges. But whether you realize it or not, you do benefit from it, and it is your fault if you don’t maintain awareness of that fact.

    I do understand that McIntosh’s essay may rub some people the wrong way. There are several points on the list that I felt spoke more to the author’s status as a middle-class person than to her status as a white person. For example:

    “If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area, which I can afford and in which I would want to live.”


    “I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.”

    “I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.”

    “If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.”


    And there are so many more points in the essay where the word “class” could be substituted for the word “race,” which would ultimately paint a very different picture. That is why I had such a hard time identifying with this essay for so long. When I first wrote about white privilege years ago, I demanded to know why this white woman felt that my experiences were the same as hers when, no, my family most certainly could not rent housing “in an area which we could afford and want to live,” and no, I couldn’t go shopping without fear in our low-income neighborhoods.

    The idea that any ol’ white person can find a publisher for a piece is most certainly a symptom of class privilege. Having come from a family of people who didn’t even graduate from high school, who knew not a single academic or intellectual person, it would never occur to me to assume that I could be published. It is absolutely a freak anomaly that I’m in graduate school, considering that not one person on either side of my family has a college degree. And it took me until my 30s to ever believe that someone from my stock could achieve such a thing. Poverty colors nearly everything about your perspective on opportunities for advancement in life.
    Middle-class, educated people assume that anyone can achieve their goals if they work hard enough. Folks steeped in poverty rarely see a life past working at the gas station, making the rent on their trailer, and self-medicating with cigarettes and prescription drugs until they die of a heart attack. (I’ve just described one whole side of my family and the life I assumed I’d be living before I lucked out of it.)

    I, maybe more than most people, can completely understand why broke white folks get pissed when the word “privilege” is thrown around. As a child I was constantly discriminated against because of my poverty, and those wounds still run very deep.
    But luckily my college education introduced me to a more nuanced concept of privilege: the term “intersectionality.”
    The concept of intersectionality recognizes that people can be privileged in some ways and definitely not privileged in others.
    There are many different types of privilege, not just skin-color privilege, that impact the way people can move through the world or are discriminated against.
    These are all things you are born into, not things you earned, that afford you opportunities that others may not have. For example:

    Citizenship:
    Simply being born in this country affords you certain privileges that non-citizens will never access.

    Class:
    Being born into a financially stable family can help guarantee your health, happiness, safety, education, intelligence, and future opportunities.

    Sexual orientation:
    If you were born straight, every state in this country affords you privileges that non-straight folks have to fight the Supreme Court for.

    Sex:
    If you were born male, you can assume that you can walk through a parking garage without worrying that you’ll be raped and then have to deal with a defense attorney blaming it on what you were wearing.

    Ability:
    If you were born able-bodied, you probably don’t have to plan your life around handicap access, braille, or other special needs.

    Gender identity:
    If you were born cisgender (that is, your gender identity matches the sex you were assigned at birth), you don’t have to worry that using the restroom or locker room will invoke public outrage.
    As you can see, belonging to one or more category of privilege, especially being a straight, white, middle-class, able-bodied male, can be like winning a lottery you didn’t even know you were playing.
    But this is not to imply that any form of privilege is exactly the same as another, or that people lacking in one area of privilege understand what it’s like to be lacking in other areas. Race discrimination is not equal to sex discrimination and so forth.

    And listen: Recognizing privilege doesn’t mean suffering guilt or shame for your lot in life. Nobody’s saying that straight, white, middle-class, able-bodied males are all a bunch of assholes who don’t work hard for what they have.

    Recognizing privilege simply means being aware that some people have to work much harder just to experience the things you take for granted (if they ever can experience them at all).

    I know now that I am privileged in many ways.
    I am privileged as a natural-born white citizen.
    I am privileged as a cisgender woman.
    I am privileged as an able-bodied person.
    I am privileged that my first language is also our national language, and that I was born with an intellect and ambition that pulled me out of the poverty that I was otherwise destined for.
    I was privileged to be able to marry my way “up” by partnering with a privileged, middle-class, educated male who fully expected me to earn a college degree.
    There are a million ways I experience privilege, and some that I certainly don’t.
    But thankfully, intersectionality allows us to examine these varying dimensions and degrees of discrimination while raising awareness of the results of multiple systems of oppression at work.

    Tell me: Are you a white person who’s felt uncomfortable with the term “white privilege”? Does a more nuanced approach help you see your own privilege more clearly?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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