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Thread: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

  1. #141
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    I remember the libs screaming blood for oil when Bush was prez.

    What hypocrites.
    Hypocrites? We'll be screaming again when your boy invades Iran - most likely under a made-up pretext like WMDs were.
    Last edited by Garret; 05-09-2018 at 04:05 PM. Reason: spelink
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  2. #142
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    The markets are up, what could POSSIBLY be wrong in the world?

    "I got mine, screw you."
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    I remember the libs screaming blood for oil when Bush was prez.

    What hypocrites.
    I scream you scream we all scream for ice cream.

  4. #144
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    ....Of course Saudi Arabia is chuffed to bits with Trump's foolishness.
    The Saudis know no better...father forgive them for they know not what they do !

  5. #145
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    The White House’s implacable hostility to the Iran nuclear deal—the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action—coupled with the administration’s policy lockstep with Israel and Saudi Arabia on Iran, just brings the Middle East to the brink of war more quickly.
    The wider Middle East region is a pressure cooker and the lid is likely to blow. Iran could quickly acquire a nuclear weapons capability towards the end of the JPCOA’s term. Cancellation of the agreement would just bring the potential timeframe forward. In either case, neither Israel nor Saudi Arabia can be expected to wait for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons before acting.
    The chaos in Iraq and Syria has allowed Iran to strengthen its strategic position vis-à vis Israel and Saudi Arabia. The high cost of the Iraq–Iran War is also a factor in Iran’s desire to dominate its western flank. Irrespective of the merits of withdrawing from the JPCOA in the eyes of the US, Donald Trump’s approach is unlikely to bring Iran into negotiations for a new, wider agreement.
    Despite the objections of the other JPCOA signatories and widespread international support for the agreement, the JPCOA itself is no panacea. The basic makings for a major conventional war in the wider Middle East are already present. Such a war would draw in all the great powers and have grave consequences well beyond the region. Any map will tell the tale.
    China now has important strategic investments in Pakistan, and Xinjiang, its difficult western province, shares a border with Afghanistan. But China’s strategic interests go well beyond the stability of Iran’s eastern neighbours.
    Central Asia and Transcaucasia are central to the Belt and Road Initiative. The BRI’s southern route options from China to Europe either traverse Turkmenistan–Iran–Turkey or take the trans-Caspian route of Kazakhstan–Azerbaijan–Georgia to Turkey. China may beprepared to deploy the PLA to defend its extensive BRI investments.
    Transcaucasia and the Caspian Sea are already volatile areas. Iran has strategic interests in both, especially in Azerbaijan, which is 65–70% Shiite. Turkmenistan shares a long, remote border with Iran and could provide a logistics corridor if Russia decided to support Iran.
    Russia’s Transcaucasian priorities are exemplified by its decision to build a naval base at Kaspiysk on the Caspian Sea. Russia demonstrated the strategic importance of the Caspian Sea in 2015 when it fired 26 cruise from there into Syria. The Caspian Sea also provides a secure resupply route to Teheran and would allow Russia to support Iranian military operations.
    The Russians would oppose strongly the prospect of the Middle East being dominated by a US client state like Saudi Arabia or Israel. Russia has its own border security problems and strategic interests in Georgia, and may take advantage of any major turmoil to change the facts on the ground as it did in Crimea.
    President Trump’s response to any crisis is going to be unpredictable. In Washington, support for Israel and the administration’s growing closeness to the Saudis would incline the US to provide substantial logistical support and intelligence, and perhaps military forces, in the event of a war with Iran. The US still maintains a strong interest in Afghanistan and Pakistan—a legacy of the ongoing war on terror—where Iran could foster a diversion.

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/th...not-the-issue/
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  6. #146
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    things are heating up.....

    from https://mideast.liveuamap.com/

    *a few seconds ago
    Israeli army now shelling Hezbollah positions in Madinat Al Baath city in Quneitra
    *3 minutes ago
    Pro-Syrian government news outlet al-Mayadeen reporting any further strikes will be met by "larger" attack on Israel
    *7 minutes ago
    The missiles in the Golan heights targets according to al maydeen tv: -Israeli military base for electronic warfare.; -Israeli military base 9900 for intel gathering.; - Israeli militray base for communication and spying center.; -the military HQ of Israeli army position 810.

    *
    10 minutes ago
    Syrian Air Defence units Shoot in the sky towards Israeli Missiles.

    *
    11 minutes ago
    Video of Rocket hits on the Golan

    *11 minutes ago
    Israeli army says attack on Israel's northern border from members of the Quds force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard

    * Israel asks the residents of the Golan to remain in shelters until further notice....
    Last edited by Hallam; 05-09-2018 at 06:12 PM.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  7. #147
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    I'm no strategist but i see the position of the USA as weakening and the very real possibility of a coalition of like-minded parties using the situation developing in Syria to have a real go at the USA / Israel and the Saudi's. This could be their opportunity?

    ....and Israel is stoking the fire.
    Last edited by Hallam; 05-09-2018 at 06:16 PM.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  8. #148
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Well Bibi knew the decision long ago. At the same time the decision was confirmed, the Israelis were installing anti-missile batteries and opening air raid shelters. I expect some provocation some time soon by the Israelis, and if that's not enough even a black op's operation just to ramp up the fear.
    A couple of rockets for them to shoot down somewhere safe inside the border maybe………...
    I thought so………….
    Bibbi wants Donald to intervene, directly………...

  9. #149
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Iranians are getting brave....
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...heights-israel

    Being let off the leash a little, clearly.
    Everyman carries within himself a world made up of all that he has seen and loved; and it is to this world that he returns incessantly, though he may pass through, and seem to inhabit, a world quite foreign to it.
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Iranians are getting brave....
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...heights-israel

    Being let off the leash a little, clearly.
    They are a fine and developed people, who took heavy casualties while ousting a powerful puppet that ruled them mercilessly until 1979, and have demonstrated stalwart resilience, self respect and dignity since.

    Not wishing to share the same fate as at least two less fortunate neighbours, they came to Syria´s aid as it was being blown to bits battling a proxy-war masterminded by foreign interests.

    The Iranian Forces are now battle-hardened, having driven out heavily-armed Iraqi invaders in a protracted war in the 80´s - guess who egged Saddam Hussein on ? - and more recently, routing proxy-forces in Syria.

  11. #151
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..FART


  12. #152
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by carioca1232001 View Post
    They are a fine and developed people, who took heavy casualties while ousting a powerful puppet that ruled them mercilessly until 1979, and have demonstrated stalwart resilience, self respect and dignity since.

    Not wishing to share the same fate as at least two less fortunate neighbours, they came to Syria´s aid as it was being blown to bits battling a proxy-war masterminded by foreign interests.

    The Iranian Forces are now battle-hardened, having driven out heavily-armed Iraqi invaders in a protracted war in the 80´s - guess who egged Saddam Hussein on ? - and more recently, routing proxy-forces in Syria.
    Good points, your observations are reminiscent of the Vietnamese after the French pulled out. A proud tradition of resistance is a powerful force.
    Everyman carries within himself a world made up of all that he has seen and loved; and it is to this world that he returns incessantly, though he may pass through, and seem to inhabit, a world quite foreign to it.
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  13. #153
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .



    Course libs hate trump more then these nuts..

    scary, but true.

  14. #154
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Trump knows the nature of these bad people...

    The folks of iran are good people.

    Very smart.

    They are under these religious nuts.

    Odd how libs defend a country that throws gays off buildings, makes women cover their faces etc.

    Course libs hate trump more then these nuts..
    Did the Oregon “libs” do a number on you when you moved out there? Never heard a man sound so victimized by libs like you.

  15. #155
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Trump knows the nature of these bad people...

    The folks of iran are good people.

    Very smart.

    They are under these religious nuts.

    Odd how libs defend a country that throws gays off buildings, makes women cover their faces etc.

    Course libs hate trump more then these nuts..
    Very simplistic partisan comment showing no understanding of the history that led these people to despise the USA, and the UK. Post #157 mentions the powerful puppet these people ousted in
    1979. I assume you know that puppet was put there by the UK/ USA "regime change" 1953 coup.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_I..._d%27%C3%A9tat
    ...that the coup overthrew a democratically elected Govt.......that Trumps latest move is a clear statement that the USA intends to again effect "regime change" in Iran.....and you call these people nuts!! Now put the boot on the other foot for a moment. I don't make these comments because I hate USA or because you support Trump but because your commentary is meaningless blind patriotic nonsence that perpetuates a state of war, conflict, misery and suffering caused by grave injustices heaped upon other nations in pursuit of economic and military domination...... and my position has nothing to do with left verses right political dynamics.
    Last edited by Hallam; 05-09-2018 at 10:07 PM.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  16. #156
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    scary, but true.
    You talking about your complete ignorance of history?

    A bunch of pollies burn an American flag so they must be nuts?
    What would the USA have done if Iran had facilitated the killing of hundreds of thousands, of Americans?

    Do you think it would;
    1. more
    2. equally
    3. less
    nuts?
    Everyman carries within himself a world made up of all that he has seen and loved; and it is to this world that he returns incessantly, though he may pass through, and seem to inhabit, a world quite foreign to it.
    Chateau-Briand, Voyage en Italie.

  17. #157
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Odd how libs defend a country that throws gays off buildings, makes women cover their faces etc.

    Odd how cons so smartly salute the torture state . .

    Vets For Peace

  18. #158
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    Very simplistic partisan comment showing no understanding of the history that led these people to despise the USA, and the UK. Post #157 mentions the powerful puppet these people ousted in
    1979. I assume you know that puppet was put there by the UK/ USA "regime change" 1953 coup.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_I..._d%27%C3%A9tat
    ...that the coup overthrew a democratically elected Govt.......that Trumps latest move is a clear statement that the USA intends to again effect "regime change" in Iran.....and you call these people nuts!! Now put the boot on the other foot for a moment. I don't make these comments because I hate USA or because you support Trump but because your commentary is meaningless blind patriotic nonsence that perpetuates a state of war, conflict, misery and suffering caused by grave injustices heaped upon other nations in pursuit of economic and military domination...... and my position has nothing to do with left verses right political dynamics.
    So you’re saying it’s Iran’s turn to torture and terrorize, and we should just help ‘em? You’re implying that we should allow them to build nuclear bombs and ICBMs, because they hate us, and will never forget it?
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    So you’re saying it’s Iran’s turn to torture and terrorize, and we should just help ‘em? You’re implying that we should allow them to build nuclear bombs and ICBMs, because they hate us, and will never forget it?
    No, that's way off the mark! How the hell do you get that from anything I've posted on the subject????
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Trump Considering Pulling U.S. Out of Constitution

    Andy Borowitz


    Photograph by Chip Somodevilla / Getty WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—

    Calling it “maybe the worst deal ever,” Donald J. Trump said on Wednesday that he is considering pulling the United States out of the United States Constitution.

    “I’ve seen a lot of bad deals in my life, but this Constitution is a total mess,” he said. “We need to tear it up and start over.”

    Trump was scathing in his remarks about the two-hundred-and-twenty-nine-year-old document, singling out for special scorn its insistence on three branches of government. “The branches thing is maybe the worst part of this deal,” he said. “The first thing we do when we pull out of the Constitution is get rid of two of those branches.”

    He also called the First Amendment “something that really has to go.”

    “No one in his right mind would put something like that in a Constitution,” he said. “Russia doesn’t have it. North Korea doesn’t have it. All the best countries don’t have it.”

    He stopped short of accusing his predecessor, Barack Obama, of writing the United States Constitution, but said, “He’s working hard behind the scenes trying to save it, because he knows that the Constitution is very, very bad for me.”

    Vowing to replace the Constitution with “a new, much, much better Constitution,” he acknowledged that there might be some elements of the original document worth salvaging. “We’re going to keep the Second Amendment,” he said, “and definitely the Fifth.”

    Andy Borowitz is the New York Times best-selling author of “The 50 Funniest American Writers,” and a comedian who has written for The New Yorker since 1998. He writes the Borowitz Report, a satirical column on the news, for newyorker.com.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  21. #161
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Iranians are getting brave....
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...heights-israel

    Being let off the leash a little, clearly.
    It would be worth verifying that this attack actually originated by Iranian leadership. I don’t see the upside for Iran to attack a nuclear armed Israel.

  22. #162
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Trump knows the nature of these bad people...

    The folks of iran are good people.

    Very smart.

    They are under these religious nuts.

    Odd how libs defend a country that throws gays off buildings, makes women cover their faces etc.

    Course libs hate trump more then these nuts..
    Trump knows jack. You understand less than jack.

    How can you say on one hand the folks of Iran are good people and on the other hand a country that throws gays off buildings and makes women cover their faces? You appear to be confusing Iran with ISIS. Look up our Wahhabi ally Saudi Arabia.

  23. #163
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Speaking of Saudi Arabia.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/09/polit...ons/index.html
    Saudi Arabia's foreign minister told CNN on Wednesday that his country stands ready to build nuclear weapons if Iran restarts its atomic weapons program.

    Asked what his country will do if Iran restarts its nuclear program, Adel Al-Jubeir told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that "we will do whatever it takes to protect our people. We have made it very clear that if Iran acquires a nuclear capability we will do everything we can to do the same."
    But why build them? I'm sure that SFB will sell them a boat load of nukes, they just need to butter him up a little.
    Nosce te ipsum

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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Must be a grand time for air defense analysts. This is kinda big. Not quite the peace in the ME Bluey spoke about.


    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_s...other-ttg.html

    A long time reporter out of Syria has sent out a series of tweets over the last six hours describing an Israeli missile attack on the Damascus area. What is unique about this attack is that the SAA is not only engaging the attacking missiles, but is firing missiles and artillery into Israeli positions in the Golan Heights. All this while Netanyahu is watching a parade in Moscow. Now that’s chutzpah. -TTG

    Pat Lang
    44 minutes ago
    Trump is encouraging Israel's aggression and has given Bibi an unlimited blank check for US support. IMO a US/Israeli war against Iran/Syria and Hizbullah is now inevitable.

  25. #165
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    The stage is set. Will Congress provide a check on Executive power?


    https://www.juancole.com/2018/05/tru...-playbook.html

  26. #166
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Your vague reference to “the markets” doesn’t define anything specific about the wisdom of Trumps actions. You have a medicated way of dismissing arguments without addressing them.
    Let me try again. The fact that few people are panicking - indicated by the fact that the financial markets are still stable and there are no runs on supplies at the local super markets, would indicate to a rational person that the situation is not as dire as you and others suggest.

    While I disagree with most of what Trump has done since taking office - including getting out of this agreement, I look around and see the wheels are still on the bus. More importantly I don't see the Democratic leadership - including those who might run for office in 2020, even suggesting that they will overturn many if any of Trump's actions. It appears that any complaint about his most recent act of withdrawing for the agreement is something that the Democrats have little concern about.

    Yes, a serious war, even nuclear war, could break out. A non-nuclear war will be far from home. A nuclear war will end it for most if not all of us. In neither case is panic a proper response.

    edited to add:

    Godel and high school debate. I did not dismiss your argument. I am sure everyone on your side has a good argument. Unfortunately, that does not preclude the opposing side from having an equally good or even better argument. I have no desire in getting into a discussion as to whose argument is better. I am less interested in determining which argument is right. I find it sufficient for me to simply state my lack of concern relative to your greater concern.
    Last edited by Too Little Time; 05-10-2018 at 09:52 AM.
    Life is complex.

  27. #167
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    Trump knows the nature of these bad people...

    The folks of iran are good people.

    Very smart.

    They are under these religious nuts.

    Odd how libs defend a country that throws gays off buildings, makes women cover their faces etc.

    Course libs hate trump more then these nuts..
    First of all, women are required to wear head coverings, not required to cover their faces. Just like in Saudi Arabia. Treatment of homosexuality is also pretty similar in Iran and Saudi Arabia.

    Unlike the Saudis, however, the Iranian government recently (a few months ago) announced that women will no longer be arrested for not wearing a head covering. This forward step in enlightenment came, oddly enough, after a treaty normalizing Iran diplomatically and economically.

    Now, of course, all bets are off. President Trump brings North Korea into the fold with one hand while pushing Iran out with the other. Give that man a Nobel!

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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post

    While I disagree with most of what Trump has done since taking office - including getting out of this agreement, I look around and see the wheels are still on the bus.
    You can get used to anything but hanging. You're getting used to Trump and seem to have done so with little or no concern.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  29. #169
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    ^ The classic "boiling frog" scenario.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    ...... You’re implying that we should allow them to build nuclear bombs and ICBMs, because they hate us, and will never forget it?
    Being a signatory to "The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons " was considered as an abomination at least in South Asia (Pakistan and India).

    Quite reasonable if one takes ino account the principal events that occurred between 1945 and 1967, under the stewardship of those countries pressing for it´s adoption by the world community; needless to say, whole countries were devastated since 1967 and others are currently being so, by using only conventional weaponry and explosive charges.

    Makes one wonder that had they the gumption to 'do a Kim' on a wielder of the big-stick .....they might have saved their country and its people ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty...uclear_Weapons

    It does afford some similarity with demanding that a US citizen sign away his/her rights as laid down in the Second Amendment and restrict the use of his/her firearm (auto or manual ?) solely for hunting game or for cleaning out blocked drain-pipes. .

    Four UN member states have never accepted the NPT, three of which are thought to possess nuclear weapons: India, Israel, and Pakistan. In addition, South Sudan, founded in 2011, has not joined.

    The treaty defines nuclear-weapon states as those that have built and tested a nuclear explosive device before 1 January 1967; these are the United States, Russia, the United Kingdom, France, and China. Four other states are known or believed to possess nuclear weapons: India, Pakistan, and North Korea have openly tested and declared that they possess nuclear weapons, while Israel is deliberately ambiguous regarding its nuclear weapons status.

    The NPT is often seen to be based on a central bargain:

    the NPT non-nuclear-weapon states agree never to acquire nuclear weapons and the NPT nuclear-weapon states in exchange agree to share the benefits of peaceful nuclear technology and to pursue nuclear disarmament aimed at the ultimate elimination of their nuclear arsenals.[5]


    So it is not about hating this country or that, but more in line with possessing a credible deterrent in hands .... 'should you decide to devastate our country and people, through the use of conventional or non-conventional weaponry, take note that our capacity to retaliate may seem feeble in comparison, but we are not a hapless nation'

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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..


  32. #172
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    Default Re: What happens when Donald pulls out of the Iran accord………..

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dryfoot View Post
    Speaking of Saudi Arabia.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/09/polit...ons/index.html


    But why build them? I'm sure that SFB will sell them a boat load of nukes, they just need to butter him up a little.
    The scores of billions channeled by them into the Syrian 'civil war' were ineffective, a resounding defeat for their proxy-fighters.

    Give them a nuke by all means, we might be lucky in that they drop it on themselves.

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