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Thread: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

  1. #1
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    Default Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    I'm encouraged!

    Connecticut’s legislature has passed a bill that would give the state’s Electoral College votes to the presidential candidate who wins the popular vote nationally.The state Senate voted 21-14 on Saturday to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which includes 10 states and the District of Columbia. The state House passed the measure last week, 77 to 73.

    The compact requires its members to cast their Electoral College ballots for the presidential candidate who wins the national popular vote. The agreement goes into effect once states representing at least 270 electoral votes — the number needed for a candidate to win the presidency — signs the compact.

    Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy (D) has promised to sign the legislation committing his state to the interstate agreement. Once he does so, the compact will have 172 electoral votes. California, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia have already signed the accord.

    Malloy has described the current Electoral College voting system as “fundamentally unfair.”

    “With the exception of the presidency, every elected office in the country, from city council, to United States senator, to governor, is awarded the candidate who receives the most votes,” the governor said, according to the Connecticut Mirror. “The vote of every American citizen should count equally, yet under the current system, voters from sparsely populated states are awarded significantly more power than those from states like Connecticut.”

    In the 2016 presidential election, Donald Trump lost the popular vote by almost 3 million ballots, but won the electoral vote 304 to 227, thus clinching the presidency.

    According to The Associated Press, Connecticut ― which cast its seven electoral votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016 ― will be the first state to join the National Popular Vote agreement since Trump’s victory.

    State Rep. Matthew Lesser (D) said it’s taken a decade of lobbying to convince Connecticut lawmakers to join the compact.

    Trump’s victory, Lesser told AP, appears to have given the issue “some renewed momentum.”
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  2. #2
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Libs would love nothing better then the blue coastel states decide the election..

    This is why Norm ....thinks.....its fair and a great idea.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    ^
    Boo freaking Hoo.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  4. #4

    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    And the regressives love the fact low population Western and southern states are proportionally over represented in the electoral college. Tyranny of the minority.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Not everyone in CT is happy.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Libs would love nothing better then the blue coastel states decide the election..

    This is why Norm ....thinks.....its fair and a great idea.
    This is literally (and I mean that literally) about removing the whole notion of "states" from the electoral process.

    The idea, bear with me now, the idea is that the VOTERS decide the election, regardless of their zipcode...

    yes, I'm a super-progressive revolutionary. I buy beer on sundays, even.
    No adversary is worse than bad advice.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Libs would love nothing better then the blue coastel states decide the election..
    Yeah, it's just AWFUL, isn't it... I mean, the idea that everyone's vote should be counted equally is a CRIME, in the eyes of the right wing!
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  8. #8
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    "Turns out a presidential candidate could win the election with just 22% of the popular vote"

    Not all votes are equal when it comes to electing the president of the United States. Because of the electoral college system, votes cast in smaller states weigh more heavily than those cast in larger states. The difference is so significant that it's possible to win the election with a surprisingly low percentage of the popular vote.

    Popular Support for the Electoral College

    A Gallup poll in January 2013 found that a vast majority of Americans would prefer to do away with the electoral college for presidential elections.


    http://www.businessinsider.com/unequ...ar-vote-2016-5
    Last edited by Barry; 05-07-2018 at 02:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    What about the two senators per state thing...?
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    An end run around the electoral college. Cool.

    Where there is a will there is a way.
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    And the regressives love the fact low population Western and southern states are proportionally over represented in the electoral college. Tyranny of the minority.
    Someone recently calculated that 12% of the votes are needed to elect a majority of Senators. A minority can easily gain power.

    The problem is that we as a country are divided as to where we should go.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    I've often thought that keeping the college but adding electors at large for winning the popular vote.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    So it is fine to disenfranchise the voters in Wyoming?
    Maybe a more common sense solution would be for the 2020 candidates to remember to campaign in the midwest

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Yeah, it's just AWFUL, isn't it... I mean, the idea that everyone's vote should be counted equally is a CRIME, in the eyes of the right wing!
    You know darn well the Electoral College ensures that all parts of the country are involved in selecting the President of the United States. If the election depended solely on the popular vote, then candidates could limit campaigning to heavily-populated areas or specific regions. To win the election, presidential candidates need electoral votes from multiple regions and then they could build campaign platforms with a national focus, meaning that the winner will actually be serving the needs of the entire country. Without the electoral college, groups such as Iowa farmers and Ohio factory workers would be ignored in favor of pandering to metropolitan areas with higher population densities, leaving rural areas and small towns out . When elected the winner would just serve the majority states for re election,

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Such a bad idea. Getting rid of something that has serve us quite well. You will not find a perfect system. There is nothing special about 50.00001% of the vote.

    One of George Will's recent editorials.

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will050318.php3


    George Will has been hitting it out of the ballpark lately with his editorials, I might start a thread just to give a list of what he has produced in the last couple of months.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Someone recently calculated that 12% of the votes are needed to elect a majority of Senators. A minority can easily gain power.

    The problem is that we as a country are divided as to where we should go.
    Remember that until 1911, senators were appointed (theoretically by state legislatures, but often by governors), not elected.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    From the count up to 40% of potential voters 'disenfranchise' themselves……………...

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Am I correct that the number of electoral college members for each state is determined by the state's population? If that is correct, and this vastly improved system is eventually implemented nationally would there be any need for the electoral college at all?

    Also, as P. I. S-N. asked, what about the gross unfairness of having 2 senators per state. What was everybody thinking when they established that foolishness?

    Next, forbid corporate donations to election campaigns and totally eliminate gerrymandering of any sort.

    I get the feeling that if the system were actually fair the republicans would seldom stand a chance at the federal level. Most people in the US are pretty nice people who care about each other and their environment and the rest of the world.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    I can see why the electoral college was put in place & I am not yet convinced that doing away with it is the best path. As mentioned, going with popular vote only means that carrying 10% of the states would be enough to elect someone.

    To be frank, I'm not sure I want the president elected by a few metropolitan areas. Yes, I know the electoral college produced the Trump presidency, but if the DNC/HRC had paid a little bit of attention to rural areas, it wouldn't have happened.

    So - eliminating the electoral college is basically saying that rural voters don't matter.

    ETA: Another way to look at it is that going to popular vote would mean that New York City (the CITY, not the state) would have more clout than all of Washington State. Or more than VT, NH, & ME, CT & RI combined. Or more than MA & RI combined.
    Last edited by Garret; 05-07-2018 at 03:38 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Wasn't the electoralcollege system set up so that no crass populist could be elected Pres. by the hoi polloi?…..

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    So it is fine to disenfranchise the voters in Wyoming?
    Maybe a more common sense solution would be for the 2020 candidates to remember to campaign in the midwest
    No, they would still get to vote, and their votes would count just as much as anyone else's.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    This is literally (and I mean that literally) about removing the whole notion of "states" from the electoral process.

    The idea, bear with me now, the idea is that the VOTERS decide the election, regardless of their zipcode...

    yes, I'm a super-progressive revolutionary. I buy beer on sundays, even.
    GOD forbid! And drink it to I'll bet!
    PaulF

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Montgomery View Post
    An end run around the electoral college. Cool.

    Where there is a will there is a way.
    There is NO way it will happen except in the mind of a liberal.

    The electoral college, after all, is enshrined in our Constitution, which means getting rid of it requires a constitutional amendment. That's a two-thirds vote in both the House and the Senate and the ratification of three-fourths (38) of the 50 states.



    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d40bb2754181

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    You know darn well the Electoral College ensures that all parts of the country are involved in selecting the President of the United States. If the election depended solely on the popular vote, then candidates could limit campaigning to heavily-populated areas or specific regions. To win the election, presidential candidates need electoral votes from multiple regions and then they could build campaign platforms with a national focus, meaning that the winner will actually be serving the needs of the entire country. Without the electoral college, groups such as Iowa farmers and Ohio factory workers would be ignored in favor of pandering to metropolitan areas with higher population densities, leaving rural areas and small towns out . When elected the winner would just serve the majority states for re election,
    In a fair and equal system Bobby every vote counts, regardless of where the voters live. Living in a state where the majority of voters are rednecks should never give a voter more clout than that held by those living in other states. The current system is profoundly unfair, but that's what it takes for the corporations to rule, and they never quit trying.

    The US really could be great, but never will be under the current system, never.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post

    So - eliminating the electoral college is basically saying that rural voters don't matter.
    No, but it would mean that the minority cannot rule the country, which, it seems to me, is far more important. Looking at the current situation they are clearly not up to the job.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Gotta agree with woodpile, it's a non-starter. It would mean the States giving up control of their dispirit and sometimes corrupt electoral systems in favour of a federally constituted independent electoral commission with the power to to redistribute and change boundaries on a regular scheduled basis, and to regulate the registration process to ensure that differing electorates are fairly represented.
    Not gonna happen

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    I just would like to see Connecticut get its finances straightened out.
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by peb
    Such a bad idea. Getting rid of something that has serve us quite well.
    THAT is a matter of opinion.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  29. #29
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    For all the whining about voters in less populated stated losing representation, I don't hear a single peep from the same people about the urban citizen whose vote is wasted.

    I do like where this is headed.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    It would mean the States giving up control of their disparate and sometimes corrupt electoral systems in favour of a federally constituted independent electoral commission . . .
    Nah. First, there's not much opportunity for 'corruption' in the normal sense (gerrymandering, fiddling with the votes) in the current system; the occasional exception is when the vote in a state is very, very close (Florida 2000) and winner-take-all system will shift tall the state's electoral votes. The state governments themselves don't have much power to influence things.

    There are three huge problems with the electoral college. The first is obviously that the population per electoral vote varies a LOT, by a factor of about 3.5:1 from the most to the least populous state.



    A second is the winner-take all system. If the margin of victory in one state is much larger than in another, then the voters in the second state who voted for the winning candidate have a much greater voice than those in the first. An example - in 2008 Alabama and Louisiana both had 9 electoral votes, and about 4.5 million population. Very fair, right? But if all of the voters in Alabama had voted for the winning candidate, yet only 50.0001% in Louisiana had, then the votes in Louisiana would count about twice as much as those in Alabama. Obviously that's an extreme example, but smaller examples of the same effect happen all the time.

    A third problem is the effect of differential turnout. A state's electoral votes are vaguely proportional to population, yet independent of the actual number of votes. Say we have two states with roughly equal populations and the same number of electoral votes (Alabama and Louisiana, let's say), and which vote by the same percentage for the winning candidate. Yet Alabama has a 40% turnout, Louisiana 80% The votes in Alabama would count twice as much as those in Louisiana. This isn't far-fetched, since turnout ranged from 43% (Hawaii) to 75% (Minnesota) in the last election.

    Bottom line, the electoral college is an obsolete and wildly anti-democratic system, originally implemented to placate slave owners (3/5 of a person, yet they couldn't vote, remember?). Get rid of the damn thing. One person, one vote.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 05-07-2018 at 04:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    I thought the Nazi's were taking over, seems that was the flavor of the day not that long ago. Every time the left wants a change and gets it they wish they hadn't two years later. For better or worse Trump has done jack sh*t to our republic and frankly the entire population is getting sick and tired of listening to you whine like the little kittens you have become.

    I don't care what poll you suck from every single one shows an upward trend. You want to win elections learn the rules, run someone that can win and suck it the f up when you loose.

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    They’re making the mistake of believing democracy is good, it’s not. Two wolves and a lamb voting on what’s for dinner. It also assumes that it would benefit one certain party. That’s certainly not in evidence , considering a large majority of governors , and state governments, are held by the opposing party. Changing the method would mean fewer republicans in California would stay home, feeling their vote didn’t count, and likewise, dimocrats in Tennessee. Democracy was well understood, and purposely avoided, by our founders. Thankfully. The 17th Amendment needs to be repealed , but looking at this coalition of states doesn’t give confidence that it would change many elections. Several of them, should they be won by a Republican, would indicate a landslide in both the popular, and electoral college votes.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    very pleasant………….

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    I am sick and tired of Republican presidential candidates losing the popular vote but winning the electoral college and then the GOP base crowing while their installed candidate governs uncompromisingly as if he had won some sort of mandate.

    We've had 10 years out of the last 18 of that nonsense. And counting.
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    Trump is doing beautifully.





  35. #35
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    Default Re: Another victory towards getting rid of the Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G View Post
    I just would like to see Connecticut get its finances straightened out.
    Fat chance as long as the tax and spend dem's run this state.

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