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Thread: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

  1. #1
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    Default Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    I want to build a launch trolley, out of wood. I have some DF stock and a couple of 16" wheelbarrow wheels - and a 1" diameter steel tube, thin wall maybe 1mm, for an axle.
    9ft Nutshell Pram.
    Launch from a beach via Carpark. No ramp to speak of, bit of a small drop from the grass verge to the sand - which is soft right there.

    Desired;
    Disassembles into two parts, shaft and main support, plus wheels off.
    Reassemble in 2 to 3 mins.
    Parts stow easily on a trailer with the long shaft perhaps on the roof rack.
    Light enough for a person to lift. Light enough for a young teenager to push/pull.
    Some strength, would like to fit with electric trolling motor and battery (a-mid-ships) before launch. Total max weight probably in the 150kg (300lbs) range.

    Working through ideas in my head, but if anyone has had success with something like this, i'd appreciate a picture.
    There's a real danger I'll over build this.
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    I don't have a picture, but I used to have something similar for a holdfast trainer. About the same as a sabot. I made a square frame, about 1 metre square. Stainless tube for the axle. Split pins to hold the wheels on. Easily removed. No drawbar, just grab the boat and push/pull. We transported the whole lot on a ute, wheels off, boat sitting on frame.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Ohh - noice.
    I think without the drawbar I'd lose it on the step down onto the beach - and would have trouble getting it back up.
    But food for thought - thanks.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    I'm having trouble picturing why you'd need a trolley with a frame and drawbar, and really can't see one that would fully assemble in 3 minutes!

    Got photos or better description of the distance, and the height of the drop from grass to sand? I move my 350lb fir over oak dory skiff around on a full-size boat trailer, and can't see pulling it up any sort of incline, much less a steep drop of over 6". I'd be really tempted to haul the trolling motor, heavy battery and other gear in a separate load. I think you'll need taller wheels to get over that drop. My friends cobbled together a cart from a wheelchair for use on boating trips where we have to haul heavy gear and ice chests up a rough trail for about 200 yards and 50' elevation change, but those wheels wont carry 300lbs.

    Northern Tool has 26" wheels that could be doubled-up, using two on each side of the axle. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...3513_200463513

    Even cheaper are deer carts made for hunting. They're rated for 4-500lbs, have tall wheels and a drawbar of sorts. You could probably modify one of these for your needs -- I've used one on heavy boats before and they track OK if strapped to the hull properly.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Thanks Thorne, interesting looking trolley - not sure i see how the boat would ride on it.

    Just found this - close to what i want. https://www.tridentuk.com/gb/product...rtra165lt.html
    Hadn't thought about an A frame arrangement. Must have a think about how it could work with the Nutshell - wouldn't have to be anywhere near as long as that one.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Maybe a little pricey for you $500+, (well, for me anyway) but for ideas look here:
    http://www.apsltd.com/aps-advisor/do...sport-storage/

    Pneumatic wheelbarrow wheels often have a 5/8" or 3/4" bore. I would think 16-19mm. A standard hex head cap screw has a long unthreaded portion that makes a decent axle. Using two nuts to clamp the bolt to a heavy gauge steel angle makes a wheel assembly that can be bolted to a wooden or metal cross member. Bolt a long 2x4 to that using 1/2" bolts with wing nuts and you have most of the trolley for about $75.
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    I like that strap idea - instead of a landing panel or skids. would save weight.
    The nutshell has a flat bottom so the strap supports would have to be wide.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Hi Gypsie

    I have built two wooden launching trolleys, with a third in production. The launching trolley shown here is for a Sabre sailing dinghy. The Sabre hull is about 12’7” long and 40 kg, and I guess fully rigged is in the range of 50 to 60 kg. This trolley is overbuilt for the boat weight though. :-)

    20180420_133736-small.jpg


    This trolley does not disassemble, but why not build it so that the boat can sit on the trolley on the trailer? For a 9’ pram, you are probably looking at a 5’-6’ long trolley, so it is not huge. I can easily carry my Sabre trolley on a car roof rack.

    My trolley has been made with 7035 mm MGP10 structural pine (used to frame houses in Australia), 18 mm marine plywood sheet for the bunk supports and fibreglass for the bunks. The trolley has been epoxied together, so no metal screws or fittings to rust -- the only metal is the aluminium axle; the wheels have plastic bushes, the wheel washers are plastic and I am using zip ties to secure the wheels, rather than metal R-clips (stainless steel R-clips through the aluminium axel may have led to galvanic corrosion).

    Critical to building a trolley for a 150 kg boat will be getting the wheel position right so that most of the weight is carried by the wheels and you only have about 10-12 kg weight at the handle.

    I have detailed my trolley build on this page. http://www.blokespost.com/?p=6095 I have included lots of information about my build decisions, so there might be some useful ideas that you can adapt.

    Rex.
    Last edited by rex_wolfe; 05-07-2018 at 06:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Gypsie

    If the nutshell pram has a flat bottom, you could probably do away with the bunks and simply have the boat sit on the A-frame. My first trolley was built in a similar style for a Minnow sailing dinghy. A Minnow is an 8’ pram dinghy in Australia. I covered the A-frame with some pool noodles (dodgy!) but some marine carpet or similar would probably do well too.

    launching_trolley.jpg

    Sorry, I do not have any photos of just the trolley itself.

    In terms of using a strap to support the boat, I have always found them a pain to get in the right position -- they always tend to drag forward on the hull as you pull the boat back on the trolley when recovering it. You also need to think how you are going to brace the supports on either side of the hull. They will potentially be loaded with the full 150 kg boat at times during launch and recovery.

    Rex.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Instead of disassembling how about something like these folding dollies made out of wood? The main axle folds and the dolly could be secured inside or atop the Nutshell when trailering. http://www.marinefoldingdolly.com/products.html
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    This is a timely thread for me as I am about to embark on building a trolly for the HV-13 that is just about ready for it's first launch. I considered wheel barrow wheels but quickly discarded the idea. I boat in salt water and the steel hubs and bearings would go south rather soon. So I purchased some more expensive wheels with Delrin bearings. I will use an aluminum tube (1" OD) as an axel. Epoxying the wood frame is a good idea, I'll incorporate that. Also, the A-frame rather than a T seems more sound and easier to accomplish. I have a bit of irregular ground to go over so the extra rigidity will be better, I think. My boat is coming in at about 125 pounds, ready to row.

    Otherwise I've no additional ideas at this point. It will be a trail and error road for me. I will be visiting your blog, rex wolfe. Thanks.

    My trolly build results will be posted on my Hv13 thread here.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    How about drilling a couple of holes in your bilge runners, and just poking the axle through the holes. Then fit the wheels. No need for a trolley at all.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    jpatrick

    The wheels I have used are wheelbarrow wheels purchased from a local hardware store (Bunnings in Australia). If you scroll about a third of the way down my blog page (under the Materials heading) , you will see a photo of the two wheels. The wheels have a plastic poly rim hub and are rated to 180 kg each -- plenty strong enough for my needs!

    http://www.blokespost.com/sailing/ho...ley-dolly/6095

    The metal bearings supplied with wheelbarrow wheels are not designed for immersion in water and will quickly rust out. Note that the wheel on the left in the photo has had the metal bearings replaced with the plastic bushes supplied with the wheels. The wheel on the right in the photo has the metal bearings still in place and the plastic bush on the side. Swapping over the bearings for the bushes is a very simple five minute job.

    Rex.
    Last edited by rex_wolfe; 05-07-2018 at 06:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post

    Otherwise I've no additional ideas at this point. It will be a trail and error road for me. I will be visiting your blog, rex wolfe. Thanks.
    Jeff

    I have now built two wooden launching trolleys, with a third in production and a fourth trolley on order (I'm building it as a favour for someone at our local sailing club). Based on my own trial and error, I have a few ideas on how to refine the design further. I will put some notes together in the next couple of days to share the ideas.

    Rex.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    I built a launch dolly years ago with wheelbarrow wheels. The frame was wood. One problem was that the frame was floating at the surface when I was trying to pull the boat onto the dolly. I finally put barbel weights on the axles so the dolly would stay on the bottom while I floated the boat onto it.
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    I built a launch dolly years ago with wheelbarrow wheels. The frame was wood. One problem was that the frame was floating at the surface when I was trying to pull the boat onto the dolly. I finally put barbel weights on the axles so the dolly would stay on the bottom while I floated the boat onto it.
    Most lightweight trolleys will float because of the buoyancy in the wheels -- all aluminium and stainless steel tube trolleys I have owned have done this. The only trolley I have owned that has not floated was made of heavy galvanised steel -- it was so heavy and difficult to manage that I am replacing it with a wooden trolley!

    I have built my wooden launching trolleys so that I can put my toe on the axle case and submerge the aft bunk sufficiently to pull the boat over the trolley.

    Rex.
    Last edited by rex_wolfe; 05-07-2018 at 09:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    A photo off the net that may be useful.

    $_20 (1).jpg
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Thanks for the great responses all.

    Rex - that blog is Great! Thanks heaps for the link. Plastic bushing, all epoxy - shhweeet.
    Welcome to the forum!

    My weight estimate is well over - i imagine i'd only ever push it around when its in the 60kg-ish mark tops.
    When its in the water loaded up with fresh water, diesel, food, gear, kids and me it'll climb up then.

    IMG_4641.jpg

    Solid rethink thats to this great input, 'A' frame has all the advantages mentioned.
    I'll prolly do my bunks different - rather skids, because of my other great idea of adding bilge runners (nice idea Phil but wood too thin).
    Rocker may be a consideration.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
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    You need to redo those bilge runners already. Make them be handles and axle holders! I'm glad we had this discussion because I reckon that's what I might do and wouldn't have thought of it otherwise.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Thanks for the welcome Gypsie. I have often surfed by this forum looking for ideas -- I thought it was time that I shared. :-)

    I thought 150 kg seemed heavy for a 9' plywood boat. My trolley design should support a 60 kg boat.

    Yes, you will need to put some thought into the aft bunk. Depending on where your boat's balance point is, you may be able to simply place a plywood sheet on top of the aft section of the trolley A-frame. Cover the plywood in marine carpet for the runners to land on.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    You need to redo those bilge runners already. Make them be handles and axle holders! I'm glad we had this discussion because I reckon that's what I might do and wouldn't have thought of it otherwise.
    Could make them lead shoes and give myself 20kg a side of ballast?
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    These socking great cobles are recovered on an axle that is simply tied on with ropes.

    You can do the same and use the dinghy's painter as a draw bar.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    ^ The guy on the left is wearing waders. The guy on the right has his boots filled.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    One thing to remember is that we're talking about rolling it an unknown distance over grass and sand, and lifting / dropping it over an unknown height dropoff. Having personal experience with being stupid stubborn (yes, I am from Missourah...how can you tell?) about moving boats through the woods and beach launching, I really think that taller wheels will be needed to get the boat over that dropoff -- the tall plastic ones would work, and can be doubled-up on the axle if not wide enough for soft sand.
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    You need to redo those bilge runners already. Make them be handles and axle holders! I'm glad we had this discussion because I reckon that's what I might do and wouldn't have thought of it otherwise.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Can you explain how you would get the axle in place when recovering the boat in any kind of surf?Seems like a real challenge to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Can you explain how you would get the axle in place when recovering the boat in any kind of surf?Seems like a real challenge to me.
    Same applies with any launching trolley or trailer.

    Round here because we actually have tides we beach on a falling tide, and within a few minutes we can walk around the boat and sort it out in slow time.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    I spent a while trying to make a dolly or trolly along these lines but nothing was as handy as the wheels here. They ride in channels and can be flipped up for rowing or down for hauling out right side up. I actually usually kept them in the up position and hauled the boat over the beach upside down.


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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Can you explain how you would get the axle in place when recovering the boat in any kind of surf?Seems like a real challenge to me.
    I'd drag the dinghy onto the beach then fit the axle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    I spent a while trying to make a dolly or trolly along these lines but nothing was as handy as the wheels here. They ride in channels and can be flipped up for rowing or down for hauling out right side up. I actually usually kept them in the up position and hauled the boat over the beach upside down.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Well we have tides too,but not with a huge range.The thing is that leaving a boat with any kind of water moving round it tends to leave it fairly stuck so we float onto the trolley and walk it up the beach a bit.Then you have time to tidy things up.One work of caution;the trolley needs to guide the boat into position or there is a risk of any projecting corner holing the boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    One thing to remember is that we're talking about rolling it an unknown distance over grass and sand, and lifting / dropping it over an unknown height dropoff. Having personal experience with being stupid stubborn (yes, I am from Missourah...how can you tell?) about moving boats through the woods and beach launching, I really think that taller wheels will be needed to get the boat over that dropoff -- the tall plastic ones would work, and can be doubled-up on the axle if not wide enough for soft sand.
    drop from grass to sand, maybe 1m height difference over a slope of about 45 degrees, with a 1ft-ish drop where the grass ends and the sand begins.
    Tide in, about 15meters of sand, first 5meters is nearly always very soft - except in king tides.
    Tide out, about 40m of sand.
    Tides are about 1m on average -ish, so the beach is a gentle slope. Pretty sharp pebbels and shell, hence the need to carefully shepherd the boat over the surface.

    the height is a consideration to get clearance for the boat. big wheels is good, the alternative is lifting the bed higher above the axle = weaker structure.

    Ian - I've considered wheels like that. You can get systems like that off the shelf.
    Maybe I'm being a bit vain, but i just don't want to stick them on the nutshell. Seems like an afront to the lovely little boat. Maybe next year...
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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    One work of caution;the trolley needs to guide the boat into position or there is a risk of any projecting corner holing the boat.
    That is where the axle positioned with ropes works so well. The two ropes hooked over cleats position the boat as it is pulled onto the axle. Then ropes going in the other direction secures the boat and you are good to go.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    drop from grass to sand, maybe 1m height difference over a slope of about 45 degrees, with a 1ft-ish drop where the grass ends and the sand begins.
    Tide in, about 15meters of sand, first 5meters is nearly always very soft - except in king tides.
    Tide out, about 40m of sand.
    Tides are about 1m on average -ish, so the beach is a gentle slope. Pretty sharp pebbels and shell, hence the need to carefully shepherd the boat over the surface.

    A trolley of similar design to mine will handle most of that:


    - drop from grass to sand, maybe 1m height difference over a slope of about 45 degrees -- easy, but you need to be strong enough to pull a 60 kg boat up it, and not let it run away going downhill.
    - 1ft-ish drop where the grass ends and the sand begins-- slide the trolley rails over this, it will make it, but you might want to put a skid on the bottom of the rails to protect them.
    - tide in, about 15meters of sand, first 5meters is nearly always very soft -- use big, wide wheels that will float over the soft sand.
    - tide out, about 40m of sand -- presumably hard packed? easy.

    You have spent countless hours building a beautiful wooden boat. Why go with a solution that is going to make launching and retrieving the boat a hassle and potentially damage the boat? Spend the time to build a decent trolley that will make launching a breeze, protect the boat during transit and gently cradle it during storage.

    Enjoy.

    Rex.
    Last edited by rex_wolfe; 05-09-2018 at 03:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by rex_wolfe View Post

    I have now built two wooden launching trolleys, with a third in production and a fourth trolley on order (I'm building it as a favour for someone at our local sailing club). Based on my own trial and error, I have a few ideas on how to refine the design further. I will put some notes together in the next couple of days to share the ideas.
    I have put some notes on my blog -- http://www.blokespost.com/sailing/up...ly-design/6313

    The gist of it is to separate the aft bunk and axle case to better balance the boat on the trolley while also being able to set the desired weight at the handle. I also suggest removing the brace on the forward bunk -- I do not think that it is needed for my boats.

    I am yet to upload a sketch. I will do it in the next day or so. Or perhaps I will just build my next trolley like this and take photos. :-)

    Enjoy.

    Rex.
    Last edited by rex_wolfe; 05-09-2018 at 03:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Luanch Trolley Ideas, Anyone?

    Mocked something up on the boat last night.

    IMG_4676.jpg

    I'll work with that i think.

    IMG_4678.jpg

    Two cross pieces, one at the back and one to support the front.
    I'll have a pad each side of the keel on each cross piece.
    I did try a plank lengthways between the cross pieces, but the rocker would just make it rock...

    IMG_4681.jpg

    Thanks for the inspiration Rex, cometh the challenge, cometh the man.
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