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Thread: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

  1. #1
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    Default Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    It is possible to hate the man and love the character he played, no? I would think it possible to dislike what Pete Rose did off the field and still appreciate what he did on the field.

    I've seen/heard many comment recently that they will no long watch the Cosby show.

    I wonder, if, rather than being in show business, he was a scientist who developed a pill that cures cancer. Would his personal failing/crimes prevent one from taking that cure?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Art and morality have always posed challenges to each other. Philosophers have always struggled with the hope that the-good-the-true-and-the-beautiful are one versus the reality that really nasty stuff can be shown as beautiful, that poetry can exhault immorality, that rhetoric can make people believe lies. Better than trying to ram all art into a more or political frame (thank god Soviet Realism is dead) we can take a lesson from Kate Millett. D. H. Lawrence, Henry Miller, Norman Mailer, and Jean Genet were great artists whose work is important exactly because they expose society's (and their own) sexism. All four were at the least unpleasant to be personally involved with and Genet, whose work is in many ways the counter to the others' male exhibitionism, was certainly creepier than, say, Truman Capote.

    We read fragments of ancient writings and look at classical sculpture with aesthetic appreciation but no clue as to who the artists may have been or what moral stance they had. I rather divide my artistic critique into two different enterprises. One is the art just there as I encounter it. The other is the investigation, to the extent possible, of the cultural/historical context and the artist.

    There's the movie "Annie Hall". And then there's the whole Woody Allen bit.

    The art stands on its own. Great art leads me to see parts of my soul more forthrightly, including the not-so-nice bits, and if I can learn more about how and by whom the art was created I can learn even more.

    So, if I'd been watching Cosby back then and if I'd liked such a family situational, I'd still find it good, but now with an added depth of seeing Cosby himself in fuller context. Better example - Cosby's gentle stand-up which I liked then and still do.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Many historical figures challenge us to at least acknowledge, if not reconcile, their character faults. Wagner was an antisemite; Slocum was a pedophile, William Shockley and Margaret Sanger shared an opinion that the human race would be improved if reproduction by people of African origin was curtailed, Oliver Wendell Holmes endorsed forced sterilization

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    I still listen to Bach even tho he wrote most of it for some pie in the sky mythology.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    It is possible to hate the man and love the character he played, no? I would think it possible to dislike what Pete Rose did off the field and still appreciate what he did on the field.

    I've seen/heard many comment recently that they will no long watch the Cosby show.

    I wonder, if, rather than being in show business, he was a scientist who developed a pill that cures cancer. Would his personal failing/crimes prevent one from taking that cure?
    Similarly then this address here should be destroyed.

    MPLE:[Collected via e-mail, October 2005]
    They’re standing on the corner and they can’t speak English.
    I can’t even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain’t, Where you is, What he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be…
    And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.
    And then I heard the father talk.Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads.
    You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.
    In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.
    People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education, and now we’ve got these knuckleheads walking around.
    The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.
    These people are not parenting.
    They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what?
    And they won’t spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.
    I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.
    Where were you when he was 2?
    Where were you when he was 12?
    Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn’t know that he had a pistol?
    And where is the father?
    Or who is his father?
    People putting their clothes on backward: Isn’t that a sign of something gone wrong?
    People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn’t that a sign of something?
    Or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up?
    Isn’t it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?
    What part of Africa did this come from?
    We are not Africans.
    Those people are not Africans; they don’t know a thing about Africa.
    With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap, and all of them are in jail.
    Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back.
    People used to be ashamed.
    Today a woman has eight children with eight different ‘husbands’ — or men or whatever you call them now.
    We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can’t write two paragraphs.
    We as black folks have to do a better job.
    Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.
    We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
    We cannot blame the white people any longer.


    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cos-cause/ - CORRECTLY ATTRIBUTED
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    We all have our stuff. No one is just one thing. To be fair, it might be what trmp had in mind when he said there were good nazies and white supremacists. Except for rape, murder, crimes against humanity; such perpetrators are just that one thing, and ought to be at least sequestered from society.
    I don't care to know what the tough do when the going gets tough.

    I am interested in what the enlightened do.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    people still watch the cosby show?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    To answer the OP directly. We need a cure for a disease. Nobody needs a TV show.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    people still watch the cosby show?
    People still watch Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids. People still watch I Spy.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    Slocum was a pedophile, Margaret Sanger (held the) opinion that the human race would be improved if reproduction by people of African origin was curtailed
    It doesn't appear that either of those claims is correct. Slocum apparently exposed himself to a 12-year-old, possibly during a mental lapse; that is not an indication that he was a pedophile. As for Sanger, it appears that she clearly and consistently rejected racist eugenics; rather she was concerned that families with low incomes limit their children to the number they could rear and support in good health.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    It doesn't appear that either of those claims is correct. Slocum apparently exposed himself to a 12-year-old, possibly during a mental lapse; that is not an indication that he was a pedophile. As for Sanger, it appears that she clearly and consistently rejected racist eugenics; rather she was concerned that families with low incomes limit their children to the number they could rear and support in good health.
    We decided that it was best for us to limit the number of children we had to two.

    That way we would be able to afford to spend money, or income we had, to ensure that they had a good roof over their heads, adequate food to eat, decent clothing to wear, received a good education, etc.

    Thus if we had had three the amount spent on each child would be cut to a third of what we had.
    We were therefore able to afford 50% better quality resources on the two rather than if we had three. Accepted it is a simplistic calculation, as some things are common use etc.

    IMHO Those that spurn birth control or decide not to limit the number of children they have are irresponsible.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    We decided that it was best for us to limit the number of children we had to two. (...) IMHO Those that spurn birth control or decide not to limit the number of children they have are irresponsible.
    I agree. And that was Sanger's stance as well. (She had some other ideas, like the involuntary sterilization of people with disabilities, that do not fit with our modern understanding of genetics and human rights, but she was remarkably progressive for her time and place.)

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    I agree. And that was Sanger's stance as well. (She had some other ideas, like the involuntary sterilization of people with disabilities, that do not fit with our modern understanding of genetics and human rights, but she was remarkably progressive for her time and place.)
    There are various birth controls, including voluntary sterilization for males and females available.

    As to "involuntary sterilization of people with disabilities", that is a whole bucket of worms e.g. starting with at what level of disability should one be sterilized and who decides on that level?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    As to "involuntary sterilization of people with disabilities", that is a whole bucket of worms e.g. starting with at what level of disability should one be sterilized and who decides on that level?
    There are bigger problems than that, even. The most glaring is, of course, that disability does not abrogate one's human rights in most civilized nations. But there's also the fact that the vast majority of disabilities do not make the disabled person any more likely to have a disabled child than you or (as I did) me.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    For the love of God, do we have to rehash this flaming bullsh!t about Margaret Sanger again?? Eugenics was conventional wisdom 90 years ago, approved by most educated people left, right, and center. "Scientific racism" although not universal, was very common. Bringing it up out of context is a stupid and transparent attempt by today's anti-abortion right to discredit Planned Parenthood. It's crap. Stop it.

    The personal faults of an artist and how to separate them from the artist's work - now that's interesting, and a fairly complicated subject.

    The personal faults of scientists or those who work with objective reality are much easier to disconnect form their work. Isaac Newton may have been an utterly bonkers mystic who wrote huge nonsensical treatises on numerology, but calculus still works, as does gravity, and the usefulness of both idea is quite independently of Newton's weirdness.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    People still watch Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids. People still watch I Spy.

    Kevin
    Never was a Cosby Show Fan, ( to me it seemed OVERLY White Washed )
    Never was even a Cosby ( JELL-O rolling eyes ) Fan

    Finding out he was a weird perv - not that surprising
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    People still watch Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids. People still watch I Spy.

    Kevin
    Only on DVD. All Cosby stuff has been pulled.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Only on DVD. All Cosby stuff has been pulled.
    Or on YouTube.

    My point was that interest in the shows was still robust enough for them to have remained in syndication five and six decades after their initial creation. ( Paul's question was relevant to audience demand) Whether a network drops them or not --as I would bet they have--is not the same thing as people refusing to watch.

    Kevin
    Last edited by Breakaway; 05-02-2018 at 10:31 AM.
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    For the love of God, do we have to rehash this flaming bullsh!t about Margaret Sanger again?? Eugenics was conventional wisdom 90 years ago, approved by most educated people left, right, and center. "Scientific racism" although not universal, was very common. Bringing it up out of context is a stupid and transparent attempt by today's anti-abortion right to discredit Planned Parenthood. It's crap. Stop it.

    The personal faults of an artist and how to separate them from the artist's work - now that's interesting, and a fairly complicated subject.

    The personal faults of scientists or those who work with objective reality are much easier to disconnect form their work. Isaac Newton may have been an utterly bonkers mystic who wrote huge nonsensical treatises on numerology, but calculus still works, as does gravity, and the usefulness of both idea is quite independently of Newton's weirdness.
    I am not aware where I have brought 'it' up out of context in a stupid and transparent attempt by today's anti-abortion right to discredit Planned Parenthood.
    Nor do I consider myself part of 'today's anti-abortion right'.

    Therefore I take this opportunity to most sincerely apologize for posting something on a public forum that apparently upset your delicate sensibilities.

    Please continue with your patrol.

    Forum cop keith.jpg
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Only on DVD. All Cosby stuff has been pulled.
    Ah yes censorship.

    Hide those programs in the 'closet'.

    Unfortunately the other actors that were part of those shows not are deprived of royalties etc. Oh well, on to the next item.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Hey, that's a spiffy car!

    My dear Mr. Pirate, you may notice that in my complaint about including Margaret Sanger, I didn't mention your name at all . David Pratt brought her up, not you, and although you talked about birth control, you were doing nothing even vaguely resembling what I complained about. In short, I wasn't talking about you at all.

    The relationship between an artist's personal faults (and God knows Cosby turned out to have far more than anyone realized) and his work is complicated. In this case, I think the contrast between his persona and his personal life is particularly jarring, and people are reacting very strongly, maybe too strongly.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    I don't care at all for Clint Eastwood's opinions on a variety of things, but he knows how to make a movie.

    We need, IMO, to simply acknowledge that actors play parts. And we should realize they are acting.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Similarly then this address here should be destroyed.
    The link in the above posting has a virus on it. DO NOT OPEN
    Last edited by Hwyl; 05-02-2018 at 11:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    This link has a virus on it. DO NOT OPEN
    Strange. I Googled Snopes.

    Then inserted in the search facility"

    "
    Bill Cosby 'Can't Blame White People' essay"

    and clicked on answer.

    Maybe when I tried to paste "- CORRECTLY ATTRIBUTED" it formed part of the link and generated an 'alert' ?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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    Default Re: Bill Cosby is NOT Cliff Huxstable

    Quote Originally Posted by john smith View Post
    i don't care at all for clint eastwood's opinions on a variety of things, but he knows how to make a movie.

    We need, imo, to simply acknowledge that actors play parts. And we should realize they are acting.
    y> y> y>
    Last edited by Rum_Pirate; 05-02-2018 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Hmm 'thumb's up' Smiley not working!
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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