Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

  1. #1

    Default Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    Ok another beginner question. I like the idea of a smaller skin on frame decked canoe because it eliminates the whole fiberglassing of the hull that a typical stitch and glue decked canoe has but I also like the wooden hull the stitch and glue provides

    so my obvious question is, in general, could a typical stitch and glue decked canoe be covered in heat shrunk Dacron and oil paint in place of the typical fiberglass epoxy? Would it work to replace the benefits the fiberglass and epoxy provide and perhaps be lighter in weight?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Blacksburg, VA
    Posts
    399

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    What you are describing is very similar to the old-fashioned way of finishing wooden decks: cover them with canvas and then saturate the canvas with paint.

    It would probably work, but I doubt that it would be significantly lighter.

    If you want to keep weight down, perhaps you should use fiberglass and epoxy only in the most abrasion-prone areas. For the rest, just several coats of epoxy.
    I will beg you for advice, your reply will be concise, and I will listen very nicely and then go out and do exactly what I want! (Apologies to Lerner and Lowe.)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    616

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    I dunno the exact answer to you question, having never tried this, but I seriously doubt you'd save anything in terms of time, money or weight. The benefits of FG/epoxy over plywood are well established. One of the main benefits of FG over wood is encapsulation. The thinking goes that when a boat is properly encapsulated, water and subsequent rot will not get a toehold. However the integrity of the encapsulation must maintained. I doubt that Dacron/paint will have anything like the durability of FG. I would expect a LOT more scratch and gouge maintenance for this method. I also can't see a time savings. Once you get the hang of FG it goes really quick. Lastly I'm guessing the costs will be comparable, especially if you get no-name epoxy.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    I wasn’t so much focused on saving weight a pound or two either way is irrevelant but more the joy of not needing to use epoxy and glass. Not to mention the aesthetics of replicating the looks of a canvas covering, if you like that sort of thing, and the simpleness of stapling on some Dacron shrinking it with an iron and painting with oil based enamel as opposed to the whole multiple coats of epoxy getting the mix correct and sanding

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    2,091

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    It will work. Well, if you get it right, it can work. I think you need a primer or seal coat on the wood first.

    By skinning with Dacron, you will trade one set of operations and problems for another. The glass drapes pretty easily, so there is no labor savings there with the Dacron. You still have to apply several coats of liquid and let it set, and I suppose the paint is easier to spread. Sanding is the real difference in the noise and labor, but with a light glass cloth and sufficient filler coats, not that bad.

    You may find that eliminating the skin altogether is an easier option. Depends on the plywood thickness, design and fillets. Bruce (wizbang13) is a major opponent of glass, including taping the seams. He has done quite well without it. I think that on flatter joints the glass adds a lot more strength to the fillet, but as the angles get bigger, the fillet gets thicker, and the break will be near, but not in the joint, so the glass may just be along for the ride. A butt joint needs fiberglass. A right angle with a generous fillet might not. Where to draw the line in between is the question.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  6. #6

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    The big problem I see is taking a boat designed for method A and using it with method B which it wasn’t designed for

    In theory if the Dacron works over just a bare frame it should work over a plywood skin. If it gives support and strength to a bare frame it should do so and more over a skinned boat. But not being a designer it is all guess work on my part

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,982

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    If it gives support and strength to a bare frame it should do so and more over a skinned boat.
    Highly unlikely. The skin boats rely to some extent on the skin's ability to flex away from danger, impact, and abrasion. Back it up with a solid plywood surface and you will lose the vast majority of that, exposing the true nature of Dacron - it is too thin to really offer much abrasion resistance and it has pretty lousy tear strength, complete with a tendency toward explosive tearing due to the non-stretch nature of its polyester yarns. In short, other than adding an outer layer which can keep water out, it ain't gonna do squat for the actual structure and isn't likely to give any serious boost to the overall durability of the boat.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    Thank you that is why I wanted an experts opinion

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    S.W. Florida
    Posts
    3,570

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    Reuel Parker recommends using xynole-polyester cloth instead of fiberglass -- it is stronger weight-for-weight than FG, more flexible, slightly stretchy, takes compound shapes in a way FG can't,
    and ** it doesn't itch **.


    Details can be found in his The New Cold-Molded Boatbuilding (LINK)


    Excerpt
    It's generally agreed that cold-molded construction is the best method for the amateur or independant professional interested in building a full-size cruising sail or power boat. A truly appropriate technology, cold molding combines the beauty of wood with the low-maintenance characteristics exceeding those of fiberglass. The New Cold-Molded Boatbuilding is the complete, soup-to-nuts presentation of process, with chapters detailing every facet of construction from choosing a design and setting up, through engine installation and wiring, to launching a design and performing sea trials. In addition, the author has streamlined the cold-molded process considerably, producing boats that are more economical, efficient, and sturdy--Boats built from native materials that will last the life of the builder and turn heads in harbours around the world.

    Price: $19.95(($25 including domestic mailing)
    #include [std-disclaimer]

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
    (Keeley - Sherrard translation)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,982

    Default Re: Beginner question 2 Dacron covering

    Xynole and Dynel do have their own limitations though, which should at least be considered whenever you compare using them to using fiberglass. They will lack the rigidity that glass can provide, which may or may not matter to any given project, but in some cases can be quite important. They also soak up a lot more heavy and expensive epoxy resin when saturated, so your boat may gain substantial weight if using them. There is no absolutely perfect sheathing fabric for all projects and they will all have advantages and disadvantages which should be taken into consideration when choosing your cloth.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •