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Thread: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

  1. #71
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    PICT5649.jpg

    I got as far as painting the rudder in a yellow that was not quite what i wanted, and what with all else that was going on at the time, i just painted the leeboard in green.

    PICT5651.jpg

    with the rails and coamings, the only thing to look out for was staples. If you really want to have equally spaced screw holes in your rails, work backwards from that when applying the skin, i didnt, but an inch here or there is no matter, to me.

    PICT5655.jpg

  2. #72
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    PICT5669.jpg

    Although i didnt have much trouble lifting the boat onto my shoulder, transfering it onto the roof of the car single-handed without doing damage to either was a different matter. I built the wooden trolley to slide up over the rear of the car and locate on the roof bars. It didnt work out. The angle needed due the extended roof spoiler and a daft non-removable roof antenna foiled my plan, but it does slide effortlessly on my road trailer. I shall be rethinking the car-top issue as it was supposed to be a trailer free boat.

    My addition of decks at each end raised the deckline above the drawn sheer, which throws the line off somewhat, compared to Daves boat.

    Just for comparison with volume, Daves Mobjack.

    PICT5666.jpg


    PICT5668.jpg

    The Mobjack is a one-hand lift.....perhaps i should be looking into a downwind rig for it......

  3. #73
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Daves rudder works fine. I thought if i needed more depth i could use the existing rudder as a head and just bolt through a foil. It launches and retries ok onto the trolly (which could do with some weights as it floats). The steering stick works ok, i kept the head as drawn as i might try out steering lines at some point. Certainly an easier set-up than the slave tiller system.
    The sheet block was stropped around a frame, coming up between my legs in the sit-in position, hard to know just where to put it for max convienience if you move around a bit inside. The other small details will get sorted as they become apparent in use, i think i can actually leave the oars in place, blades on the aft deck without them interfering, as long as a lashing is put across the top of the lock, which i might do anyway. I will get round to weighing it too. And yeah....i really should get a picture of it rigged up and floating......

  4. #74
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Sorry to hear things are rough at the moment. The canoe seems to be shaping up really well though, glad you are so happy with it.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Thanks for the new postings--this thread will be very useful to me when I start my build. The boat looks great--how is the headroom under the boom when tacking and gybing?

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  6. #76
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Thanks for the new postings--this thread will be very useful to me when I start my build. The boat looks great--how is the headroom under the boom when tacking and gybing?

    Tom
    I did not have the yard peaked right up, so i just had to give my head a nod, when sitting down on the bottom, or if i leaned back slightly, the end of the boom would just clear my nose. With the yard on the stop, i would have good clearance above my head. Also the option to bring the boom back aft slightly and when pulled taught with a purchase, kicks up the aft end some more, much like Daves rig.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Very impressed with the speed you have finished this magnificent craft despite the curve balls life has thrown you recently. I have throughly enjoyed your warts and all account of your build, please keep reporting and developments as you enjoy your new creation.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Thanks Tink. Wilco.
    She weighed in at 40kg and thats with the floorboards screwed in. Both masts,sails,oars and leeboard add an extra 10kg, but they are easily removed and can be stowed back inside the hull once its loaded onto the roof. Im working on a side loading roller, and probably need a trolley with much bigger wheels just at the aft end, more or less like a proper commercial portage trolley. I will post some stuff about that once i bolt the contraption together.
    I also added up all the epoxy i used which came to 650g of resin. I did not use epoxy to glue the ply stiffner to the keel, but it was used at the ends of all the stringers and fillets around all the frame slots; certainly a litre pack would more than suffice if you are not excessively wastefull.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    A brief update. I ended up cutting my trailer down to more of a dolly-trolly that sits around midships, and stows in the back of the car. I can shift one end at a time loading from the side of the car, off and onto the dolly, but i am having to get my feet wet to launch it off the dolly and untie it.

    PICT5674.jpg

    My roller ended up being a bit of cord between the roof bars inside a plastic hose, that keep the bottom off the roof of the car, simple enough to get the bow section onto the car, then pick up the aft end, push forward a little then twist to the side, loads without any hassle at all.
    Been out for a breezy 2 hour sail, again under main only. Really could do with a double block on the mainsheet as the single really loaded up the required grip. Got chatting with a guy when i got back to the ramp, he was an experienced canoe sailor, and was impressed by the way she made upwind "with that rig". Taken at 10pm this evening.

    PICT5676.jpg

    I found myself thinking that i have been missing out on some great sailing in simple boats......

  10. #80
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I found myself thinking that i have been missing out on some great sailing in simple boats......
    That is the conclusion I myself am drawing to.

    re loading, have you tried moving the rear roof bar as far back as you can and loading the canoe over the back. Fully appreciate that being SOF rolling is not as easy.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    That is the conclusion I myself am drawing to.

    re loading, have you tried moving the rear roof bar as far back as you can and loading the canoe over the back. Fully appreciate that being SOF rolling is not as easy.
    One of those EU rules that is a bit daft, and designed to sell standardized products like roof boxes, all of which have the bar mounts 50cm apart. The studs in the roof can not be moved. I do have a long "plywood rack", that fits on the standard bars, that would allow loading over the back, but the side load is not a problem unless someone comes and takes the parking space next door. It would not be an issue with 2 people.
    I have usually had access to small boats even when i have been using larger ones, but never a sail canoe. I was somewhat struck by the downwind pace, without seeming fast, i was a bit shocked to find how suddenly far away the harbor was, and that it only required 8 tacks to get back, might have done it in 6 if i was prepared to sit out, but im getting into the floating armchair style, ergonomically, it works for me like that. Im thinking a 12ft version can be carried on my shoulder without the need for a trolley and loaded on the roof easily.......

  12. #82
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    One of those EU rules that is a bit daft, and designed to sell standardized products like roof boxes, all of which have the bar mounts 50cm apart. The studs in the roof can not be moved. I do have a long "plywood rack", that fits on the standard bars, that would allow loading over the back, but the side load is not a problem unless someone comes and takes the parking space next door. It would not be an issue with 2 people.
    I have usually had access to small boats even when i have been using larger ones, but never a sail canoe. I was somewhat struck by the downwind pace, without seeming fast, i was a bit shocked to find how suddenly far away the harbor was, and that it only required 8 tacks to get back, might have done it in 6 if i was prepared to sit out, but im getting into the floating armchair style, ergonomically, it works for me like that. Im thinking a 12ft version can be carried on my shoulder without the need for a trolley and loaded on the roof easily.......
    I have a loading frame for my daughters Optimist which is required because of the shape of my car and shortness of the Optimist.
    Sounds like good performance, you must be chuffed
    My 12’ x 30” (ply 15kg) is easy to solo load and carry short distances. It is great with about 30-40sq ft on a lake but I have outriggers for river work just because the wind is everywhere and the the river very quiet.

    I imagine there is graph that could be drawn showing that as the craft gets smaller the weigh savings for SOF reduce vs ply reduce to the point of impracticality.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    .

    I imagine there is graph that could be drawn showing that as the craft gets smaller the weigh savings for SOF reduce vs ply reduce to the point of impracticality.
    Im not sure where the lines cross, but the DD16 built from 2 sheets of 4mm ply is an easy carry, but there is no decking or frames.

    Realized i have not posted a picture of the rig...

    PICT5681.jpg

  14. #84
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Im thinking a 12ft version can be carried on my shoulder without the need for a trolley and loaded on the roof easily.......

  15. #85
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Great job on this build and fast too! How is the nylon?

    I did rebuild my leeboardbracket, and yes my first version of this was a bit “fugly” I agree. I put one together out of aluminum. It wasn’t strong enough and broke during my first outing with it. That wasn’t so bad, I then had the chance to learn how much sailing I could actually do without the board. I now know how I want to weld one up out of aluminum. Till then it is back to strong galvanized steel. I still really like this type of board control. It hold position and tension all day through heavy conditions. I am done fiddling with this canoe. I’ll start a new build soon. Then I want to get the pivot rod under the side deck. Picture below of the current set up, not the prettiest but at least the view is good. Cheers.

    38E59CF6-B125-40D8-AEF6-996E48B03ACA.jpg
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  16. #86
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    22DCAECA-9183-4662-9453-33320B7005E3.jpg

    Did someone say 12 foot sailing canoe?
    Your boat looks sweet with the red sails.

    Peace,
    Robert

  17. #87
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Did someone say 12 foot sailing canoe?

    Looks sweet Robert... tell us more.

    Woody
    Last edited by Woody Jones; 06-20-2018 at 08:52 PM.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Hi Matt, the nylon in this damp weather looks awfull. It looked the same as the last batch i ordered, but it seems to behave a bit different and relaxes a lot more. Looks good under a hot sun, would look crap on a wet weekend. No doubt it is still incredibly tough, but i am dissapointed. Marcin Bobber over on a Facebook SOF site is sending me some samples of a tighter weave nylon, maybe that will work better on the next one.
    Glad to hear you have sorted your tinkering with the board, im happy with what i did and it works well now that i have stops to limit movement. Nice view!

  19. #89
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by DGentry View Post
    I did see that Dave and am pondering. I have plans for a PBK folding yak that might convert, but otherwise the Chukanut 12 looks ideal. Having a bit of a clear out at home, and people who have seen your Mobjack have been impressed with its looks and lightweight, have not been tempted to let it go though, just too easy to use.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    22DCAECA-9183-4662-9453-33320B7005E3.jpg

    Did someone say 12 foot sailing canoe?
    Your boat looks sweet with the red sails.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Whassat? Nice hat and a slicker looking sail.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Whassat? Nice hat and a slicker looking sail.
    The old canoe. Iím getting less acrobatic with each year. The trimaran project (ahem) will be a replacement. I was thinking of straight sailing canoe, but The Boss doesnít want me out in a wee tippy boat any more.

    The boat is just a goofy sharpie-esque boat with a little flare and a bit of arc to the bottom. The sail is,one I dreamed up and had a friend make. Heís a real wizard.

    Incidentally, this is one of the later trips in the boat. I never quite got used to the push/pull tiller.

    The boat has been permanently converted into a fishing canoe for my FIL, and the sail is on loan. The mast is now the mizzen mast on orange boat. Will be anyhow.

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. That hat is a match to one my wife owns. I am somewhat of a hat guy, actually. Maybe twenty, total. People who are balding like hats.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Hi Matt, the nylon in this damp weather looks awfull. It looked the same as the last batch i ordered, but it seems to behave a bit different and relaxes a lot more. Looks good under a hot sun, would look crap on a wet weekend. No doubt it is still incredibly tough, but i am dissapointed. Marcin Bobber over on a Facebook SOF site is sending me some samples of a tighter weave nylon, maybe that will work better on the next one.
    Glad to hear you have sorted your tinkering with the board, im happy with what i did and it works well now that i have stops to limit movement. Nice view!
    Iíd rather go back to cotton duck than use nylon. Any nylon. I hate nylon for skinning boats. One I went to polyester, I was hooked. Iíll never skin with anything but, again.

    But, thatís me, and my own quirks. One reason I am reticent to advise. Who cares about what I like? Haha

    Peace,
    Stitch Witchington

  23. #93
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Your thoughts and wisdom are always welcome,

    I wish I could find suitable polyester here in the UK - not treated

    from post 91 a Trimaran - in my case a simple canoe with outriggers has a lot of mileage, also obsessed with a idea of a Skin on Frame Peapod and if I ever move somewhere more suitable a Duck Punt - perhaps I just take what I like from each and come up with something new.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Hi Matt, the nylon in this damp weather looks awfull. It looked the same as the last batch i ordered, but it seems to behave a bit different and relaxes a lot more. Looks good under a hot sun, would look crap on a wet weekend. No doubt it is still incredibly tough, but i am dissapointed. Marcin Bobber over on a Facebook SOF site is sending me some samples of a tighter weave nylon, maybe that will work better on the next one.
    Glad to hear you have sorted your tinkering with the board, im happy with what i did and it works well now that i have stops to limit movement. Nice view!
    Such a pity we can’t get untreated Polyester here in Europe, I asked on the Facebook group but didn’t get anything. Nylon is probably OK on a skinny canoe but with the extra span on something bigger a bigger issue. It is easy to get hold of reinforced PVC as used by many commercial SOF folder and Yostwerks ( http://www.yostwerks.org/MainMenu.html ) but again long span might be an issue.

    On a side note how much do you feel the skin adds to the rigidity of the canoe? Do you notice less stiffness when the skin has stretched?

  25. #95
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    These guys are using hemp, not as tough as nylon more expensive but shrinks. Some of their videos should white boats on which the skin looks poor but I think the newer ones are the brown skin ones and they look good.

    http://www.a-mare.es/en/

  26. #96
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    An acquaintance of mine used a material sold as ' horse cover' material. Evidently its a blend of poly and something, looks very successful to my eye, and he thinks its very tough. Perhaps its just thicker?
    Any knowledge on that approach?

  27. #97
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post
    .

    On a side note how much do you feel the skin adds to the rigidity of the canoe? Do you notice less stiffness when the skin has stretched?
    None. I would say the whole frame is so well constructed the skin really just keeps the water out, i may aswell have wrapped it in cling-film. The Polyester can be obtained easily from Dyson in the US, but like you, i was hoping for a source closer to home. I have some samples coming from Poland, will let you know.....

  28. #98
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Skaraborgcraft, thank you for letting us know how the nylon preforms. Too bad you can’t get polyester in Europe. Let me know if I can help, I will be ordering some very soon. I am happy to mail you or Tink what you want, from the USA. It it makes sense?
    Last edited by Matt young; 06-22-2018 at 08:45 AM.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  29. #99
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    None. I would say the whole frame is so well constructed the skin really just keeps the water out, i may aswell have wrapped it in cling-film. The Polyester can be obtained easily from Dyson in the US, but like you, i was hoping for a source closer to home. I have some samples coming from Poland, will let you know.....

    Thanks, did some very crude modelling yesterday. It might be crude and conclusions obvious but certainly gives you a feel for the stiffness and how to improve it.








    Going to do more tests adding a skin, if the skin doesn’t add any stiffness think removable reinforced PVC may be my direction, easy to get and relatively cheap.
    Had reports that the material from Dyson is hard to get through customs


    https://tinkboats.wordpress.com
    http://proasail.blogspot.co.uk
    What I get up to
    https://youtu.be/X9NZEyvpb_Y Streaker dinghy
    https://youtu.be/oni-3rJzxqQ Sail Canoe
    https://youtu.be/eW078PPgJak Proa

  30. #100
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by tink View Post




    Had reports that the material from Dyson is hard to get through customs


    https://tinkboats.wordpress.com
    http://proasail.blogspot.co.uk
    What I get up to
    https://youtu.be/X9NZEyvpb_Y Streaker dinghy
    https://youtu.be/oni-3rJzxqQ Sail Canoe
    https://youtu.be/eW078PPgJak Proa

    Im sure you can get it through, but maybe only with paying an import duty charge. The racelite rudder fittings i got from Duckworks ended up almost twice the price after Swedish customs hit me with import tax.

    Im sure with a more flexible/lashed frame, the skin might add some stiffness, but with nylon being able to stretch 300%, its value in that regard is zero.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Hi Matt, the nylon in this damp weather looks awfull. It looked the same as the last batch i ordered, but it seems to behave a bit different and relaxes a lot more. Looks good under a hot sun, would look crap on a wet weekend. No doubt it is still incredibly tough, but i am dissapointed. Marcin Bobber over on a Facebook SOF site is sending me some samples of a tighter weave nylon, maybe that will work better on the next one.
    Glad to hear you have sorted your tinkering with the board, im happy with what i did and it works well now that i have stops to limit movement. Nice view!
    The way I was taught to stretch the Nylon is to sew it about 3-4" short and dunk it in water before stretching it over the canoe. It seems to stay pretty tight. We had to compensate for the tension with some extra rocker in the frame to prevent hogging. We also use 2-part PU, which is a much tougher material than paints, varnishes and construction adhesive. The skin stays tight after a week in the Boundary Waters.

    I understand that some people have strong preferences for either Nylon or Dacron. The guys I work with started with Nylon, tried Dacron for a while and settled on Nylon. It was not a very strong preference. I think that if they had started with Dacron and then tried Nylon, they would have settled on Dacron. My take on it that the one you get more familiar with first tends to be your preference.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    None. I would say the whole frame is so well constructed the skin really just keeps the water out, i may aswell have wrapped it in cling-film. The Polyester can be obtained easily from Dyson in the US, but like you, i was hoping for a source closer to home. I have some samples coming from Poland, will let you know.....
    I have been working with frames that are much lighter, like Platt Monfort's, and the skin seems to add some rigidity. The 17 1/2 ft canoes weigh about 40 lbs.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  32. #102
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    That is good information Dave.

    I recently emailed Dyson about a fabric order and also asked him about shipping to Sweden and the UK. He can do it no problem, he said it is a bit spendy. About $70 for two kayaks worth of material. Than I also don’t know what kind of tariff Sweden would then drop on it, as Skar has talked about.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  33. #103
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    I have had some samples of another nylon from a guy on a SOF facebook group, kind of local down the road in Poland. This stuff is of a far tighter weave than the stuff from Germany, and i will give it a go on the next yak. I will get a picture for reference later.
    I only ever recall one occasion of having a package from the US get import duty in the UK, yet everything in Sweden from outside of the EU has been stopped and charges applied, the last duty of 3 times the value on a 36 year old scratched and bent aluminium bash plate for my old XL250! Not even a system to question the charge.

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