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Thread: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

  1. #1
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    Default A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    I had a lot of fun building a Dave Gentry Mobjack Kayak, apart from the bleeding fingers, and when i saw Daves Chuatauqua sailing canoe, i had a "oooh, i like that!" , moment.

    Daves boat.



    I had already got round to cutting out the frames from 12mm Okume, when Dave was in touch about some plan updates, and i had some questions regarding some measurements that seemed to contradict, so i trimmed where needed and set up on a strong back. I only started yesterday afternoon.

    Looks like my Picasa picture host does not upload anymore.......need to find another host.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    PICT5542.jpg

    PICT5544.jpg

    Not sure why the pics are so small, they are loading direct from a memory card. Anyway, thats the frames set up on the strong back as i left it last night, with the first lower gunwhale epoxied in situ.

    PICT5546.jpg

    Second layer glued into place this afternoon and i will let that set up before doing the rest of the stringers.

    There was 2 versions of the Canoe, the one that Dave built with a daggerboard, and a "cruiser" version with a bigger cockpit and a lee-board. My version is going to be a hybrid, i wanted the cockpit big enough to lay down in, which means a lee-board, but i didnt fancy the cockpit ending where Dave suggests, which to me looks a little too far forward, so i will be making it up as i go along.
    I also already had the spar blanks and sails rough cut for Jim Michalaks sailing canoe "Pauls boat", so i will use that rig, and sort out the issues involved, namely lee-board location, as things progress.
    I didnt build the Michalak boat as at 120lbs, it was getting a bit lumpy to single hand on and off a roof, and Daves boat is about half the weight. It rows as well, so i do not feel so bad letting the rowing snipa go to another home, as in a strong wind, that high bow and general weight of the thing is too much for my elbows, so i might be able to do at least some gentle rowing into the future. It was suppose to have been a winter project, ready to launch now, but we had an extended winter and it was just too cold and dark out there to do anything.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Following with interest as I am also in love with Chuatauqua...

    I like Flickr for photo hosting. They were just purchased by SmugMug, another service that has gotten high marks here, so I have some confidence that they will continue to be a good platform.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Very interesting project! Spruce for the stringers?

    /Fredrik

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Thanks Chris, i will check out Flikr.

    Hi Fredrik, yes spruce from the local timber merchant (not Bygmax), its not clear. few small knots and a bit of a kink in the gunwhale im hoping will polish out! Its made from natrual timber by a human, so it will be an honest boat, rather than perfect. Has your snow gone yet? Only took the snow chains off the tractor last week, and some of the bays on the lake are still ice bound, even in Karlsborg.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Todays result is 2 pairs of stringers epoxied in place.

    PICT5547.jpg

    PICT5548.jpg

    I do not have the thickened epoxy in a tube Dave suggests using. I found the "standard" epoxy required giving the end grain of the stringers and ply frames several coats before applying a thickened mix, which probably draws out what would be a reasonably quick job to several hours. The advantage of lashing is being able to walk away for a brew when you fancy it, rather than have to organize your lunch around and epoxy job.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    This is great--thanks for posting. A question: why did you go with epoxy rather than lashing? Is epoxy needed to support the higher stresses (and needed stiffness) of a sailing hull, or was that just a choice? Do the plans specify one or the other?

    Sometime down the road I may build a SOF sailing dinghy of some kind, and I'd like to go with lashings instead of epoxy unless there's some reason not to that I'm not thinking of.

    Thanks,

    Tom
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Hi Tom. Dave is quite adamant about the epoxy and not using "gorrilla" or "tightbond", so it must be down to stiffness and loadings of the rig. Though i did use a D3 rated glue to stick the gunwhales together, being plenty of contact area, they were still epoxied to the frames, backed with a single screw,as per plan.
    I think the option is still there to lash, it just leaves the framework open to movement, as you can imagine using the mast as a lever between the deck partner and keel mount will transfer quite a load, and there is also the daggerboard stresses to take into account.
    I am still weighing options, it will likely get used as a row boat platform too, and i would like to get away from any fixed form of lee-board fittings on the hull, so i am considering something like Storeres "drop in sailrig", but with the 42sq Michalak sail. I have to do some research on how i could fit the beam across the coamings, and may have the need to add an additional deck frame. It would be nice to keep the sporty sail option there, but im willing to compromise if it makes it a more usefull and practical craft.
    Im building this instead of the dinghy i drew up, mainly because the hull can be covered in one width of cloth, the dinghy i drew up required a join, and i was not so keen on that. The hybrid option with a ply floor and fabric sides would not have been much lighter than an all ply S&G boat. Daves boat has the potential for much higher speed off wind over a shorter dinghy also.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    . . . as you can imagine using the mast as a lever between the deck partner and keel mount will transfer quite a load, and there is also the daggerboard stresses to take into account.
    This is the reason I specify screws and epoxy, yes. It is certainly OK to lash a sailing boat together, but I don't think it to be ideal.

    . . . i would like to get away from any fixed form of lee-board fittings on the hull, . . .
    As designed, if the leeboard is removed (simply by unscrewing a knob), there's nothing on the outside of the hull other than the rub strip on the chine. Certainly a lot less clutter than Mik's drop-in rig.

    But - as we all know, but tend to discount - with a little piece of line, leeboards need not have mounts at all. One just has to be willing to have two, or to move a single from side to side when tacking or gybing.

    Daves boat has the potential for much higher speed off wind over a shorter dinghy also.
    So much fun.

    Looking forward to seeing your boat come to life. You do good work.
    Dave

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Todays effort got the final lower stringer in place, and i dry fitted the seat carlins.

    PICT5550.jpg

    I also roughed in what might be a mast partner, it manages to have the carlins run underneath, and i can run the yet to be fitted king-plank over the top. Some small details need thinking about.

    Thanks Dave for dropping in, and for the kind words. I have had another thought regarding the leeboard possibly utilizing a row-lock mount, but the idea is stewing. Hopefully she wont end up too far from your idea, despite the rig change.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Mast partner.

    PICT5551.jpg

    That will define the forward end of the cockpit, still long enough to lay down in with the mast dropped. Details like a coaming need to be thought about. I might fit the ply seats at the aft end of the cockpit and a raised coaming forward of that. Square fronted, round or to a point, to be decided......it could be retro-fitted later later time.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Thanks for the replies.

    Dave, what do you think of your SOF sailing canoe being used consistently in 15-20 knot winds? (Not too much waves as the prevailing winds are offshore, so somewhat sheltered). How would it compare to your Annabelle dinghy in those conditions?

    I'm contemplating a build for those specific conditions, and for various reasons SOF would be ideal in some ways, but I wonder about the ability to stand up to those winds. With a properly reefable rig I can't think of a reason why not, but I'm curious what you think.

    Thanks!

    Tom
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Dave, what do you think of your SOF sailing canoe being used consistently in 15-20 knot winds? (Not too much waves as the prevailing winds are offshore, so somewhat sheltered). How would it compare to your Annabelle dinghy in those conditions?

    I'm contemplating a build for those specific conditions, and for various reasons SOF would be ideal in some ways, but I wonder about the ability to stand up to those winds. With a properly reefable rig I can't think of a reason why not, but I'm curious what you think.

    Thanks!

    Tom
    No problem, Tom, at least in my boats. For example, I have taken two different SOF sailboats on the Everglades Challenge. So, a few hundred miles in them, and I don't think the wind ever dropped below 20kts on the first one, which I sailed in my Chautauqua.

    Likewise, I have sailed all my others in 15-20kts, with no issues - and without reefing (I used to take myself very seriously when it came to dinghy racing, back in the day, and of course we never reefed anything). I did put reef points on the EC boats, and used them plenty, though.

    Chautauqua is relaxed and easy to sail sitting down in the cockpit, but you can't get full speed potential out of her unless you sit up on the deck and hike some. In high winds, one should be relatively spry and skilled for that, as she's a narrow boat.

    Dave

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    I got the mast partner epoxied in place.

    PICT5572.jpg

    And the breasthook and foredeck support.

    PICT5567.jpg

    PICT5568.jpg

    Daves original had a long king plank, but as i am moving the mast aft, and considering putting in a forward deck access hatch, that would have involved cutting into the king-plank and weakening it.

    PICT5570.jpg

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Moving aft, again, my mizzen is aft of the rear frame, so im doubling up on the aft king-plank.

    PICT5573.jpg

    PICT5574.jpg

    I need to go and get some foam for floation before fitting the decks permanently. I could not bring myself to rip into a brand new sheet of 12mm, so in historical fashion of SOF, im using up scraps of 9mm and doubling where needed, being Okume, its nothing as heavy as the pine ply i could be using!

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Seat risers,carlins in.

    PICT5576.jpg

    Seats and aft king-plank installed...

    PICT5577.jpg

    I must say it seems odd that with the topside work complete, there is no keel yet. Next job will be to flip and install that. Im already curious about the weight.....

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    So, it was with some delight that after releasing the support blocks, the turn over was completed without any strain at all. Im sure if i dont go silly on the floorboards and floors it will remain quite luggable.

    PICT5582.jpg

    Daves reccomendation was to epoxy the ply keel apron to the keel and frames at the same time, but that seemed too stressy for me. I am making the most of off-cuts, so have used 4 sections of ply on top of the keel, and these have been glued in situ on the canoe and clamped in place with lots of wax paper on the frames. Once its set, i will remove it, chamfer all the edges and then epoxy it to the frames.
    I need to laminate the leeboard blanks together and shape the rudder. Once back upright i can fit the leeboard mounting plate and mast steps.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Skaraborgcraft, thanks for posting this build. Subscribed.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Skaraborgcraft, thanks for posting this build. Subscribed.
    I will be sure to add some more stuff as if i know there is interest. The keel came off today so the frames could get some resin on, then thickened bog and the keel was put back on, screwed into the frames, with a couple of clamps taking the strain at each end until the bog sets. I shall flip it again tomorrow to finish of the interior. I cant get very far away to take pictures as im limited with space up in the loft. Once the mast steps and leeboard point is installed it can come down for final sanding and sealing with tung oil...........if the rain stops.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Skaraborgcraft, thanks for posting this build. Subscribed.
    +1

    I started building Dave Gentry's "Ruth" last summer, the frame is built, I hope to cover it soon. It is always good to see how others go about their build.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcodger View Post
    +1

    I started building Dave Gentry's "Ruth" last summer, the frame is built, I hope to cover it soon. It is always good to see how others go about their build.
    May i suggest following the plans! I have come across some minor issues with my "modifications", nothing major, and could have been avoided had i knew what i was planning right from the start......but i began by cutting out frames before i knew what version i was going to build which meant adding some wood back into frame 3 where the daggerboard keel logs would have been. We continue....

    PICT5585.jpg

    Keel is now in permently. The extra weight is noticable.

    PICT5588.jpg

    The leeboard glued up on a workbench . Im using Jims sizes as the rig is off his Paulsboat. Made up from offcuts, 9mm Okume and 8mm pine...

    PICT5591.jpg

    PICT5589.jpg

    I have an idea of hanging it from a single pivot bolt, and hoping to avoid any ugly brackets and guides on the outside.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    The seat carlin ran level with the lower gunwhale, so needed building up so the fabric will be running correct.

    Attachment 15255

    It takes up the difference in height of the 9mm seat and the extra height of the mast partner, both not as designed!

    I was/am hoping to get away with having a square coaming, so i have a template made up to have a circular front end.

    Attachment 15258

    But having seen that one over on Duckworks, square does not look as bad as i thought it might...



    Cracking job!

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    To match the Michalak rig, the board has to come forward a wee bit from where Dave suggests for his rig. No a big issue, but the bend in the frame widens the gap between board and hull needed to be able to raise the board. Test fit.

    PICT5594.jpg

    PICT5595.jpg

    I have a plan for that......in the meantime, the pivot bolt frame stiffner goes in epoxied to 2 stringers and a frame.

    PICT5599.jpg

    Once that has gone off, there will be some additional bits to stick on. The mast steps have been glued up from 3 layers of 12mm ply, i shall cut and drill them once dry.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Oh, if the handle on the leeboard is suppose to be on the aft edge, i will have to cut off that elliptical curve that was on the trailing edge, or perhaps just cut the handle off. The length is a bit oversize so a smaller handle could be cut in.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Mast steps. Laminated ply.

    PICT5600.jpg

    Test fit mizzen...

    PICT5601.jpg

    Both steps now fitted. Been shaping the mast blanks i had previously made. The main mast blank i thinned down slightly to use as a mizzen on my Low Horsepower Planing Boat, but i shall see if i can break it.....at least its varnished already.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    So, got the rudder pintle mount blocks glued in, which only leaves the floor board supports and leeboard mounting to complete before skinning up.....

    PICT5606.jpg

    I was not keen to stick the mounting bolt for the leeboard right through the gunwhale, so have decided, possibly uneccessary, to add another bit of blocking, as above. I then had another thought and decided to rebate a bit of oak into both the block and partially into the gunwhale. Possibly overkill, but i feel better for doing it.

    PICT5608.jpg

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    The rounded coaming for the forward end of the cockpit, rough sawn from 3 layers of 18mm ply.

    PICT5603.jpg

    Im still in two minds about it, it wont be too pretty clear finished, and the oak coamings might look a bit of a mis-match, so i can either try a thin slice of oak glued to the ply, or just paint it all.

    PICT5604.jpg

    Wont be fitted till after skinning, so time to decide yet. A pointed "V" coaming running out almost to the deck edge might work too.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Paint looks fine to me if it's neatly done (reasonably neatly). I think people tend to over-emphasize the need for brightwork.

    Thanks for posting; I have a Gentry SOF build in my near-ish future (August) so I'm following with great interest.

    Tom
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    www.tompamperin.com

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Paint looks fine to me if it's neatly done (reasonably neatly). I think people tend to over-emphasize the need for brightwork.

    Thanks for posting; I have a Gentry SOF build in my near-ish future (August) so I'm following with great interest.

    Tom
    I agree, paint can look fine. My last cruising boat had no varnish on it at all, and i didnt miss the work. Oiled coamings need a wipe over once or twice a year i can deal with.
    What boat do you have in mind? I ordered plans for the "chow-take-away" (as its called around here), before i saw Daves outboard canoe, but the Whitehall and Melonseed are tempting too! I was going to build a Fisher Thames 12 rowing skiff as a car top boat, but Daves canoe has a bit more waterline for around the same weight, so it will most likely row and sail a bit faster, not that it would be a deal breaker, i just fancied another SOF project as i might be working up to something Currach sized at some point.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Following this thread with interest.

    Of course you could always work down to possibly the strangest currach of all:



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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Funny how some things seem to shrink, until its time to move them....

    PICT5610.jpg

    The board bolt mount will use a bronze thru-hull, taking a 14mm shaft.

    PICT5611.jpg

    And will be taken down all around the flange so the skin can be stretched tight.

    PICT5614.jpg

    Lots of sanding and rounding off of edges to follow.......then i will fit the floorboards.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    Following this thread with interest.

    Of course you could always work down to possibly the strangest currach of all:
    I like all-sorts. Though with my wrists, shoulders and elbows, i would not be able to propel one of those very far! When i first saw that i thought of the Portland Pudgy....



    Sometimes short fat boats with full bows works!

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    What boat do you have in mind?
    Probably his Annabelle dinghy. I'm after something I can hand launch by myself on a beach, and a quick simple cheap build, primarily for sailing.

    Tom
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Annabelle skiff.....



    Good choice! If i find the "chow-take-away" too exciting, i can add some Solway dory type outriggers, i do not really want to "have to" sail wearing a dry suit. I had my first sit inside......think it will be a comfortable floating carpet ride!

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Last epoxy jobs on the list, Leeboard mount braces to transfer load to frame and carlin.

    PICT5616.jpg

    And as the mizzen got moved further aft, its quite possible if the conditions allow i could sit on the aft deck and paddle, so i added a stiffner under the kingplank.

    PICT5617.jpg
    PICT5617.jpg

    Which also serve duty to stop any baggage falling to the lower side.

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