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Thread: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

  1. #36
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Floorboard risers attatched to frames....

    PICT5615.jpg

    And floorboards rough cut ready to go through thicknesser, 6ft long, should be ok with a foam pad.

    PICT5618.jpg

    PICT5619.jpg

    Need to cut the floorboard cleats, then that can be screwed together and oiled at the same time as the frame.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Floorboards complete. Ready for a taking off of sharp edges (just finished that), and then a few coats of turpentine and tung oil. Spars will get coated at the same time. Ready for skin.

    PICT5620.jpg

    PICT5625.jpg

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  3. #38
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Lookin' good! Will you be able to weigh it on a scale?

    Woody

  4. #39
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Jones View Post
    Lookin' good! Will you be able to weigh it on a scale?

    Woody
    Yes, job for tomorrow. Frame has taken up a couple of litres/half gallon of turpentine and tung oil mix, so she will be a couple of pounds more than she was this morning. Easy to move if you can do one end at a time, but i have had a dead lift from midships onto my shoulder mostly and all ok. I will be making a trolly/cradle/roof rack gadget for it though.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Very interesting boat and build! What kind of skin and paint do you plan?

    If you still plan to head north for vacation this summer, she should be perfect for the Northern Archipelago...

    Keep posting!

    /F

  6. #41
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Jones View Post
    Lookin' good! Will you be able to weigh it on a scale?

    Woody
    26kg or 57lbs. I will re weigh when skinned and equipped.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by trango View Post
    Very interesting boat and build! What kind of skin and paint do you plan?

    If you still plan to head north for vacation this summer, she should be perfect for the Northern Archipelago...

    Keep posting!

    /F
    Hej Fredrik. I got some ballistic nylon from Extreme textiles. I will use the same monourethane paint from Biltema that worked well on the Mobjack. Limited in choice of colours, but im thinking dark grey hull, light grey decks, tan sails and some oiled fir wood trims.....or maybe a green hull......or.....

    I was going to come North on the bike, not sure towing trailers on a motorcycle is legal in Sweden?

  8. #43
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Maybe legal but not very fun...

    Long time ago I built a canoe, painted it BRG with cream topsides. Maybe not very naval/traditional but it pleased my eye - will use those colors again!

    /Fredrik

  9. #44
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Hej Fredrik. I got some ballistic nylon from Extreme textiles. I will use the same monourethane paint from Biltema that worked well on the Mobjack. Limited in choice of colours, but im thinking dark grey hull, light grey decks, tan sails and some oiled fir wood trims.....or maybe a green hull......or.....

    I was going to come North on the bike, not sure towing trailers on a motorcycle is legal in Sweden?
    I have not done a SOF project yet, but soon I am going to re-skin and do some frame work on an old Folbot. I have started researching the build method. Why did you decide to go with the Nylon skin? The concensous seams pretty split between nylon and Polyester fabric. I have really enjoyed the work from the Skin Boat School and Corey Freedman, nylon camp. Then there is D. Gentry and his good work, poly camp.

    Some of what I have gathered so far. Nylon: stronger but it expands a bit when it gets wet. Polyester: doesn’t expand, can heat shrink it, not as tough as nylon, but is tough. Any other input from more experienced people? How do they compare for the sewing work? I know not all polyester fabrics are the same. What else?

    Thanks
    https://www.skinboats.org/skin-boat-school

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    Last edited by Matt young; 05-10-2018 at 08:21 AM.
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  10. #45
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Hi Matt, i used the balistic nylon because it was the only thing i could get local (in Europe), if i wanted the nylon, i would have had to order it from Dyson in the US and the shipping was a bit pricy; i could not find a local supplier. Yes the nylon does expand a little when wet, some people find the ideas of wrinkles off-putting. I cant comment on polyester as i have not used it, certainly there was no issues with the sewing or shrinking of the nylon, though if you wet it out to stretch it, sewing a seam while wet is a tricky job, i found i pulled the material open, but i have heard similar tales with the nylon from Extreme textiles which does not have a tight warp/weft construction. I did spray it and use an iron on it after sewing, and it did go drum tight, and still is.......except when it gets wet! I prefered the idea of its toughness, re-skinning is not something i wanted to do on a regular basis.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Rudder and steering stock joined...

    PICT5628.jpg

    Leeboard getting a fore n aft chamfer with a belt sander.

    PICT5629.jpg

    And a 5in load bearing disc/washer on each side of the head epoxied on.

    PICT5631.jpg

    The frame, floorboards and spars got another 3 coats of oil mix this morning. My spare oars have a square loom in the wrong place due to the narrow beam, and i dont want to throw the balance out cutting them down, now might be the time to try a set of simple ply spoon blade oars i was saw.

    Fredrik, BRG with cream is a common clour in the UK, i lost count how many Cornish Shrimpers i have seen in that combination, it does work!

  12. #47
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Progress...

    PICT5632.jpg

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    The essential tools for nylon, water spray to damp down, canvas grips and a staple gun.

    PICT5634.jpg

    I was not clock watching, but it could not have taken that long as i did not stop for a cup of tea, and being the weekend, no limit on brew breaks...

  13. #48
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Daves plan show for the excess cloth on the stems to be epoxied then staple/tacked to the stem, however, having soaked the frame in copious amounts of turpentine and tung oil, i stapled one side and then rolled the excess and sewed through both sides, i need the stitching practice...

    PICT5635.jpg

    Its drum tight already now its dry, i hope the few wrinkles from the staples will iron out.

    PICT5636.jpg

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    Deck to follow.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Thanks for the update! I just ordered my own Chautauqua plans from Dave Gentry--I was going to go with his Annabelle design, but I think a sailing canoe will fit my needs better. I won't be starting my build until August, but it's nice to have this thread to look to for inspiration.

    Your boat looks great--can't wait to see it sailing.

    Cheers,

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  15. #50
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    I love seeing how SOF comes together. It looks very satisfying compared to many other techniques.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Thanks for the update! I just ordered my own Chautauqua plans from Dave Gentry--I was going to go with his Annabelle design, but I think a sailing canoe will fit my needs better. I won't be starting my build until August, but it's nice to have this thread to look to for inspiration.

    Your boat looks great--can't wait to see it sailing.

    Cheers,

    Tom
    Thanks Tom. Good one! You will have plenty of time to digest the instructions several times, i think some points might need some clarification. I need to run it by Dave first.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarkey View Post
    I love seeing how SOF comes together. It looks very satisfying compared to many other techniques.
    I find constructing almost anything that can get me afloat satisfying, but i admit this method with minimal epoxy, no glass work or endless sanding, sure does take some beating, especially the "planking up" in fabric which might have taken around an hour, i was left wondering how long that would have taken had the design used clinker ply, and its hard to see the benefit except for sealed chambers which need access hatches anyway. Its also pretty clean work once all the parts are cut and dimensioned. Much to be said for the method.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I find constructing almost anything that can get me afloat satisfying, but i admit this method with minimal epoxy, no glass work or endless sanding, sure does take some beating, especially the "planking up" in fabric which might have taken around an hour, i was left wondering how long that would have taken had the design used clinker ply, and its hard to see the benefit except for sealed chambers which need access hatches anyway. Its also pretty clean work once all the parts are cut and dimensioned. Much to be said for the method.
    Compelling

  19. #54
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    I went to get paint today. I thought i would play it safe and just go for simple 2-tone grey, but they didnt have any of the dark and didnt know when it would be coming in, so, i ended up buying green instead, and not quite sure how this shade is going to work out. Then i got to thinking yellow rudder and board might look a bit trick....



    Or just play it safe and paint the foils in grey or green?

  20. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I went to get paint today. I thought i would play it safe and just go for simple 2-tone grey, but they didnt have any of the dark and didnt know when it would be coming in, so, i ended up buying green instead, and not quite sure how this shade is going to work out. Then i got to thinking yellow rudder and board might look a bit trick....



    Or just play it safe and paint the foils in grey or green?


    British Racing Green with Yellow detailing is a design classic.


    You could always say you painted the foils yellow so they didn’t warp in the sun and darker hulls create less air resistance. Someone spend a fortune researching that last bit - something like 1/2 a boat length per mile in a foiling moth - I kid not.


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  21. #56
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Hi Matt, i used the balistic nylon because it was the only thing i could get local (in Europe), if i wanted the nylon, i would have had to order it from Dyson in the US and the shipping was a bit pricy; i could not find a local supplier. Yes the nylon does expand a little when wet, some people find the ideas of wrinkles off-putting. I cant comment on polyester as i have not used it, certainly there was no issues with the sewing or shrinking of the nylon, though if you wet it out to stretch it, sewing a seam while wet is a tricky job, i found i pulled the material open, but i have heard similar tales with the nylon from Extreme textiles which does not have a tight warp/weft construction. I did spray it and use an iron on it after sewing, and it did go drum tight, and still is.......except when it gets wet! I prefered the idea of its toughness, re-skinning is not something i wanted to do on a regular basis.

    Thanks for this reply.
    Looks great. Your stitch work appears to be pretty neat.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  22. #57
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Decking.....sort of....

    PICT5641.jpg

    cut a hole....

    PICT5643.jpg

    Trim and add staples....

    PICT5644.jpg

  23. #58
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    All holes melted, two mast positions, drain plug and leeboard pin.

    PICT5645.jpg

    PICT5646.jpg
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 05-14-2018 at 03:39 PM.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    I might just go for the yellow foils, if nothing else, they will be easy to find if they fall off. I did not go so heavy on the stretching of the deck and there is less stress lines, it will tighten up a little when it has the iron run over it. Cockpit coamings and rub rails to cut, still deciding on shape, i was going to clear finish that, but it might look pretty snazzy in yellow and means i do not have to hunt through the wood pile for some good grain patterns, though i can always paint after....
    I could not find a 14mm bolt long enough for the leeboard, so had to buy a length of threaded rod instead, need to make some kind of wheel/hand grip for the inside nut rather than lash a 14mm ring spanner to a frame.
    I tried out the sole boards and no worries about me taking a snooze and i can probably leave the mast in place too as i do not have excessively large feet.
    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 05-14-2018 at 03:42 PM.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    86F7DD28-046D-4F83-8366-4FB3EF27D9F0.jpg

    I dont know if you have ever tried this method of leeboard control? Or the style you are planning exactly. Someone posted it here a while back. This image is of my first crude, not wanting to buy anything, setup. I really liked it, way better for me then the bracket bolt style. The compression from the plaric clamshells keep the tube and board in position. I am making the MK-2 now. It will be ready in a few days.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Hi Matt, thats interesting but a bit fugly. I like leeboards on Dutch boats, some Michalak and Bolger boats get away with it, but all to often the mounting hardware starts to take over visually and not in a good way, at least in my eyes. I will be using a bronze skin fitting as a bearing to carry a 14mm shaft, so when the board is not in use, i may just want to go for a row, then there is no awkward construction to be seen. Some people feel the same way about tabernacles, yet i have no problem with those.
    Feel free to post what you come up with, be interested to see how other people solve the same issue.

  27. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    86F7DD28-046D-4F83-8366-4FB3EF27D9F0.jpg

    I dont know if you have ever tried this method of leeboard control? Or the style you are planning exactly. Someone posted it here a while back. This image is of my first crude, not wanting to buy anything, setup. I really liked it, way better for me then the bracket bolt style. The compression from the plaric clamshells keep the tube and board in position. I am making the MK-2 now. It will be ready in a few days.

    I like this, it removes the friction element from the rotation element which is good IMHO.
    I use a similar system to the Solway Dory method - the pivot is a bolt and I tighten the bolt to increase friction (this is the Solway Dory product)

    The issue I have found is that the rotation of the board changes the friction, on the todo this to fix

    I also like this, bit agricultural, but nice way to stop the board resting on the side on the hull and generally de-stress the system


    I live in the UK, loving this thread and think a skin boat will be my next one, I have two concerns - getting the lumber without spending $$$$$, I think Dave Gentry designs make this less of an issue. The other is the fabric, Ballistic Nylon is available but I don’t like the stretching when wet issues so think polyester is a better choice. I have managed to find this

    “440gsm heavy water resistant PU coated polyester canvas in beige”

    https://www.croftmill.co.uk/products...c-product.html

    Is the fact that is PU coated an issue, I have read somewhere someone used PU coated (I looked at so much last night can’t find the source)





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  28. #63
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Tink, Dave suggests using Cedar for the stringers and keel in the plans, but i used ordinary spruce from the builders yard, and yes there are some small knots. I have seen some really clean "white deal" in Jewsons before, so worth looking around a bit. I recall looking at a cutting list for one boat that involved 8 different species of timber, most of it imported and very expensive, when in actual practicality side of things, the whole boat could have been constructed in local Larch for a fraction of the price.
    I like that leeboard prop. I could live with that as a "drop in" unit, but decided a fixed point would serve better and i can stash the board in the cockpit under the side deck when not in use.
    Im currently in the iron mode, the deck relaxed a lot overnight and has taken a lot work (relatively speaking when pushing an iron to and fro) to tighten up, the stress marks in the topsides are still visible though not as bad, but the skin there is really tight and i do not want to make it any worse.
    When i built the Mobjack using the same nylon, i was pretty gung ho with a sponge and water after reading as much as i could find on skinning with nylon, and it stretched great, the issue was sewing wet nylon, you cant put tension on it when its wet without it deforming. I used a spray mist this time around, the nylon goes semi-transluscent when damp, but i might have gone too far putting in tension, hence the stress marks. This is only my second SOF, so im a newbie at this, but im sure the next one will be better. Also different fabric could well behave differently, so well worth testing out a small panel first for stretching-shrinking and painting. It does not effect how the boat operates, and im hoping some paint will hide the tension marks rather than highlight them, but as organic type boats, im happy to live with some minor blemishes.....i wont be able to see it while reclining in the cockpit drifting downwind....

  29. #64
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    I came across this website a few weeks ago while searching for skin on frame materials in the UK:

    http://www.flaxland.co.uk/fabric%20boats.html

    fram4.jpg

    Neither nylon or polyester but it seems that they can supply something specifically woven for boat skin use so it may well be worth a look?

  30. #65
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    ^ Nice to see flax making a comeback, twas a time all square riggers sails were made from flax. Not particulary cheap per metre cost, and extra cost of "resin" over paint. I would be tempted on a tar boat though. Certainly worth looking into some more, thanks for posting.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    PICT5648.jpg

    Only the second light coat with at least another 2 follow. Drying times mean the painting stage will take the rest of the week, but other bits to sort out, including finishing off the lug main sail.

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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    ^ Nice to see flax making a comeback, twas a time all square riggers sails were made from flax. Not particulary cheap per metre cost, and extra cost of "resin" over paint. I would be tempted on a tar boat though. Certainly worth looking into some more, thanks for posting.
    I suspect by 'resin' they are simply referring to a linseed oil paint, which would naturally cure in sunlight (it would take a while) or in an accelerated fashion under a high intensity UV lamp.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Been slack on the updates,had a sudden unexpected death to deal with last week, and having been burning the candle at both ends it was the straw that broke the camels back and i have been down with some sort of flu virus, however, been hammering away on the sewing machine in between sleeping, and decided that although being out on a cold lake might not be a good idea, i decided i really couldnt feel much worse, so....

    PICT5671.jpg

    PICT5673.jpg



    PICT5672.jpg

    I will come back with the stuff in between. First imprewsssions, stable, quick (also under oars), and goes upwind a treat. Im feeling wiped out, but i will be back with a full report in due course. Its a good-un!

  34. #69
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Sorry to hear you've had a rough time of it lately, but I'm glad to see the boat on the water--looks great!

    I got my Chautauqua plans, will start building in August. I'll be interested to hear whether you think the modifications you made were worth it, or if sticking with the plans would be your recommendation.

    Tom
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    Default Re: A Gentry sailing canoe.......sort of....

    Morning Tom, thanks!. I guess sticking to plans is always the best idea, unless the changes you make are to make the boat more suitable for your needs. Daves cruiser version is a bit simpler, lighter and a more spacious cockpit, if that important. I might never actually sleep onboard, but i wanted that option.
    The only real change was the rig and leeboard placement. If there is an advantage to the Michalak rig, it was designed to be usable under main only, and the placement of the mizzen, much further aft, allows me to use a steering stick even when sitting on the port sidedeck. I like the look of Daves original rig and the short masts, very low windage.
    I sailed mostly sitting on the floor, arms resting on the sidedecks, i briefly tried out the side deck during a gusty period, but i felt sitting out would be better attempted when im back to full working order, sitting on the aft deck down wind was comfy. I get the feeling one of those strap-in seats is in my near future, though sitting on a bouyancy aid was ok. I had the mizzen in place with the sail furled, but never set it, so i can confirm that she sails good with just the main. The only issue i had was with the leeboard reversing during tacks, the bottom going towards the bow, so i need either a stop block, or just rig some lines to limit travel. The board needs to be down a tad to clear the oar, and a bit of board in helps track well. Pretty effortless rowing as would be expected of something so light, even with my 2 hour oars. Only issue i had was oars flipping out the top of the locks, but more likely due to rowing from a low sitting position, and my muscle memory is used to dipping a bit deeper. I imagine with outriggers and a half good seat, she would make a good row cruiser in her own right. I didnt find the need to row cross-handed with 6ft oars, and when tried, more often lifted the oar. I expect i might modify the oars some when i get some more time pulling, but can safely say my rowing days have been extended a little more. A single paddle worked ok from the sitting position with the sail set, just to clear through a windless section of the harbour, i carry both, no shortage of room.
    I was only out 3 hours, didnt put any reefs on the sail, and only had a bag of polystyrene and some old water jugs as bouyancy shoved fore-n-aft, so i launched before i was really set, but i needed the breathing space i find on the lake. I shall report back after more use, but i would not change anything i have done.

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