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Thread: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

  1. #211
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post

    There is a fault line running down the middle of our societies in the developed world, and it's beginning to open into an unbridgeable abyss. Peterson, while he is not himself flawless, is a kind of Cassandra figure.
    Well said. Most here cannot be expected to put much effort into unpacking an argument. However, I hope that perhaps one or two may consider what he is saying.

  2. #212
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    There's actually quite a lot I disagree with Murray about (Neoconservatism, the 2003 Iraq War, whistleblowers like Julian Assange), so you're making unwarranted assumptions. I broadly share his concern about Islam and his disdain for multiculturalism, but I come at these problems from a different perspective. I don't know just how much of Peterson's philosophy Murray would actually endorse, and vice versa (Peterson, although he seldom comments on foreign policy, has openly condemned "liberal interventionist" wars as "idiotic" while Murray has publicly supported them).

    I don't ask you to do anything (you are, as an adult, free to make your own choices) but since you are commenting on a thread about Jordan Peterson I have to assume that you have some interest in the subject. I have expressed my opinions on a forum, not thrown fits, hissy or otherwise, and you should be careful about accusing others of projection.

    A thread like this becomes a waste of time when people do not observe basic ground rules of discourse, of which the Principle of Charity (which you somehow distort to mean agreement with my opinions, which is not at all what I myself understand by the term) is a good example, and use tricks of rhetoric to stall and avoid giving straight answers to straight questions.
    And now you distort what I've said, and claim that what I've done. I've had enough of your tricks of rhetoric. Good day.

  3. #213
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    You do not know a thing about me, or where my thoughts stem from. Goodnight.
    I agree, it's not easy to make out what you think, since you don't appear to be too clear about it yourself. I know at least one thing about you, though. Goodnight.

  4. #214
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    And now you distort what I've said, and claim that what I've done. I've had enough of your tricks of rhetoric. Good day.
    More distortion and projection on your part.

  5. #215
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Here's a modestly interesting article on Mr Peterson - or, rather a response to the essay in The Atlantic. I'd never heard of Peterson before this thread, not the sort of thing I normally follow, but now I have not the slightest desire to learn more. Link to the article here.

    A brief quote:

    But the core problem with Peterson’s argument — the one that best justifies the left’s contempt for him — is that it proceeds from the premise that it is impossible to draw a categorical distinction between oppressions that are rooted in race, gender, or class, and ineluctable misfortunes like “being less tall than one might prefer.” A moment’s scrutiny reveals the absurdity of this idea. But for anyone who finds comfort in Peterson’s claim — anyone who does not wish to believe that he has benefited from unearned privileges, or that America has racked up unpaid debts to the poor, to women, or its black citizens — the notion is superficially plausible enough to be taken at face value. Which is why it is so popular; and therefore, dangerous; and therefore, contemptible.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  6. #216
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Here's a modestly interesting article on Mr Peterson - or, rather a response to the essay in The Atlantic. I'd never heard of Peterson before this thread, not the sort of thing I normally follow, but now I have not the slightest desire to learn more. Link to the article here.

    A brief quote:
    Another hit piece, characterised by exactly the kind of identitarian drivel Peterson is (quite rightly) out to expose and debunk.

  7. #217
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    Another hit piece, characterised by exactly the kind of identitarian drivel Peterson is (quite rightly) out to expose and debunk.
    Oh, please. He obviously disagrees with Mr. Peterson, but 'identitarian drivel"? The article is fairly careful to distinguish between the genuine effects of history and mere random accidents, as Peterson appears not to. You are not improving my opinion of Peterson.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    A good piece? Are you joking? This is a crude hit piece, written in SJW-speak, that misunderstands and misrepresents Peterson at every turn. At 58 years of age I am no swooning acolyte and have my own disagreements with Peterson, both in large areas like economics (where, surprisingly for an ex-activist for a socialist party, his views are strangely and disappointingly underdeveloped) and in points of detail, but he deserves far better than this pitiful hatchet job. (It's also depressing to witness how vertiginously standards have fallen at the TLS.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    ^ What a strange first post to a Wooden Boat Forum.
    Well, was I wrong?
    As a son of Kent, I feel that I should apologise.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #219
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Omar, this is a strange place. The site was created for the further glorification of wooden boats. However, it gets the most traffic in this section. The forty or fifty world wide benthic denizens of the place use it for their own purposes. Frankly, I don't know why the magazine furnishes the space for the limited number of participants.

    Again, I recommend Jordan Peterson for serious consideration. I do not endorse (or even understand) everything he states, but I believe the guy is worth some effort.

  10. #220
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Oh, please. He obviously disagrees with Mr. Peterson, but 'identitarian drivel"? The article is fairly careful to distinguish between the genuine effects of history and mere random accidents, as Peterson appears not to. You are not improving my opinion of Peterson.
    There is only one history, Keith; it does not bifurcate into what you call the "genuine" variety (whose "effects" presumably arise from human agency), and "random accidents" (which result from what insurers and other mystics refer to as Acts of God). Consequently, if Peterson does not merely "seem" not to make this "distinction without a difference", but, in fact, does not make it, then that is surely a point in his favour.

    Our writer tries to turn Peterson's criticism of identity politics against him, but this comes across to anyone who has actually been listening to what Peterson has said as pitifully contrived and shoddily journalistic.

    You are not, incidentally, improving my opinion of you.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    shoddily journalistic
    wth does that even mean?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  12. #222
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Jordan Peterson is not always careful to maintain a proper distinction between Marxism, broadly understood, and what is sometimes called Cultural Marxism, and - as I have elsewhere noted - his understanding of Postmodernism is over-reliant on the writings and presentations of Steven R. C. Hicks. Marx himself is certainly too complex and multifarious a thinker to be summarily written off (the YouTube lectures by David Harvey on "Capital" are well worth watching), and I wish Peterson's critique here and elsewhere was more nuanced and developed, but I certainly find Peterson's general strictures about identity politics timely and convincing.

    Like Peterson, I dislike the clickbait-y titles with which people, supposedly his admirers and allies (although they have clearly not attended to him properly), often post his interviews to YouTube. His interlocutor in the first clip here is not "destroyed" by Peterson but simply, I would maintain, bettered by him in debate:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFCaABqPGxk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfH8IG7Awk0&t=1048s

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    wth does that even mean?
    Got a dictionary? OK, turn to "shoddy". "Shoddily" is the adverbial form (i.e. indicative of something done in a shoddy fashion). Now, turn to "journalist". "Journalistic" could be regarded simply as the adverbial form, but actually means rather more than simply "of or pertaining to a journalist or journalists".

  14. #224
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    There is only one history, Keith; it does not bifurcate into what you call the "genuine" variety (whose "effects" presumably arise from human agency), and "random accidents" (which result from what insurers and other mystics refer to as Acts of God). Consequently, if Peterson does not merely "seem" not to make this "distinction without a difference", but, in fact, does not make it, then that is surely a point in his favour.

    Our writer tries to turn Peterson's criticism of identity politics against him, but this comes across to anyone who has actually been listening to what Peterson has said as pitifully contrived and shoddily journalistic.

    You are not, incidentally, improving my opinion of you.
    Well THAT'S a surprise!

    Do you believe that you are improving anyone's opinion of YOU, with this unmitigated onslaught of supercilious sanctimony?
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    Got a dictionary? OK, turn to "shoddy". "Shoddily" is the adverbial form (i.e. indicative of something done in a shoddy fashion). Now, turn to "journalist". "Journalistic" could be regarded simply as the adverbial form, but actually means rather more than simply "of or pertaining to a journalist or journalists".
    Jesus T. Christ, what an ornery cuss you are.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Check this out
    Make life more pleasant for everyone else with Kitty Flanagan's handy new book "488 Rules For Life". #TheWeekly
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 08-11-2018 at 07:26 AM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Well THAT'S a surprise!

    Do you believe that you are improving anyone's opinion of YOU, with this unmitigated onslaught of supercilious sanctimony?
    Not anyone capable of perpetrating a linguistic atrocity such as "this unmitigated onslaught of supercilious sanctimony", that's for sure. You just liked the sound of it, didn't you? Whether it meant anything (beyond a suggestion of being insulting) never bothered you, did it? Lose the mental flab.

  18. #228
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Jesus T. Christ, what an ornery cuss you are.
    Not really, Keith. But, like most people, if I'm baited I'll snap back.

  19. #229
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    oh come now khayyam, surely you recognise that garbanzo was virtue signalling with that post in a manner in which to 'identify' himself aligned in a certain way here. . .

    no? you didn't see that as being obvious???
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  20. #230
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    how'd you find us btw khayyam? and is your login name a nod to the persian astronomer poet?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  21. #231
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    One small cavil with this article: the thin-skinned identitarian narcissists who fear Jordan Peterson are not worthy of being called "left"; they present zero challenge to Monopoly Capitalism at home or military adventurism abroad. They are a kind of ersatz left, born of intellectual malnutrition and moral atrophy, just as chicory coffee was born of war shortages.

    https://hotair.com/archives/2018/08/...rdan-peterson/

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    how'd you find us btw khayyam? and is your login name a nod to the persian astronomer poet?
    Oh, I ran into you while searching for pieces (friendly, hostile and neutral) about Peterson.

    And, yes, my monicker is a nod to the great man (born in Naishapur in AD 1048).

  23. #233
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    yeah, chicory sucks
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    What a tedious ... oh, ffs, I'm out of here.
    "We were schooner-rigged and rakish, with a long and lissome hull ..."

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Great thread! Thx

  26. #236
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    oh come now khayyam, surely you recognise that garbanzo was virtue signalling with that post in a manner in which to 'identify' himself aligned in a certain way here. . .

    no? you didn't see that as being obvious???
    Really?
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?


  28. #238
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?


  29. #239
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    What a tedious ... oh, ffs, I'm out of here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Great thread! Thx
    Lol
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?


  31. #241
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Lol
    One thing's for sure: Jordan Peterson was not sent by the Universal Father to reunite us.

  32. #242
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    XXVII
    Myself when young did eagerly frequent
    Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument
    About it and about: but evermore
    Came out by the same door where in I went.


    And, for that matter, when old, too.

    Jordan Peterson does not provide, and does not purport to provide, solutions to all the problems of the world (his 12 Rules, distilled from the 42 on Quora, are not intended to be exhaustive). The Internet provides many other commentators whose observations bear reading and listening to or watching; every now and then, to my delight or horror, I encounter somebody new.

    The Scottish vlogger/podcaster Alan Watt (not to be confused with his near-namesake, Alan Watts) is worth a listen:

    https://tunein.com/podcasts/Politics...atrix-p154155/

    CGP Grey has an interesting channel on YouTube as well as a web site:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/CGPGrey...able_polymer=1

    http://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/qa-with-grey

    And, if you're not already Jordan-ed out, there is a Young Pretender, Jordan Greenhall:

    http://themillenniumreport.com/2017/...e-blue-church/

    https://medium.com/deep-code/underst...h-e4781b2bd9b5

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Perhaps we should start a Rubaiyat thread, truth be told I was about Petersoned out when you arrived.*
    I bet even Keith and you might get along there and then!


    Here with a Loaf of Bread beneath the Bough,
    A Flask of Wine, a Book of Verse — and Thou
    Beside me singing in the Wilderness —
    And Wilderness is Paradise now.




    *The rightes and lefties here have been going at it hammer and tongs for some time now.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Perhaps we should start a Rubaiyat thread, truth be told I was about Petersoned out when you arrived.*
    I bet even Keith and you might get along there and then!


    Here with a Loaf of Bread beneath the Bough,
    A Flask of Wine, a Book of Verse — and Thou
    Beside me singing in the Wilderness —
    And Wilderness is Paradise now.




    *The rightes and lefties here have been going at it hammer and tongs for some time now.
    Give me enough wine and I can get on with almost anybody.

  35. #245
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Without the support of a flotilla of wooden boats it would appear that this thread has already gone to a watery grave. Still, should anyone happen upon its sunken remains the following might be of interest:

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...8#.W3RYqn3TU1L

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