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Thread: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    Keith,

    "Maps of Meaning" is maybe twenty five years old? I agree, those diagrams are a bit of a mish mash. A younger man struggling to put labels on things he didn't understand. If you'd tried to diagram your understanding at thirty I wager it wouldn't be nearly so complex. But then you're an engineer, not a psychologist.
    jack,

    I agree - from the little I've now read, he comes across as a man struggling to find the words to express something larger than his intellect can wrap itself around.

    It may be that he is in touch with something so large, so complex, so over-archingly comprehensive... that it would be the work of a genius over a lifetime to begin to articulate it adequately. It is possible for something to be SO subtle that our attempts to give voice to the vision and the distinctions SEEM like contradictions and confusion. Some ideas don't lend themselves to being boxed in by words. The brain is an amazing thing, and human attempts to understand the body/anatomy are far ahead of efforts to understand the brain/psychology. Which are far ahead of our efforts to comprehend the soul/spirit.

    Or not.

    At this point, I'm leaning toward 'not'.

    But if it IS all of that. If he HAS tapped into the ineffable, in a seminal way... he still is not able to explain it. His stuff IS self-contradictory and mercurial. Unless you enjoy pondering the imponderable, for the sake of convincing yourself you're on a journey toward enlightenment... which you could do with a rubber ducky in your lap, without all the dense and prolix persiflage.l.. it's pretty much useless.

    I'd head back to Jung for some serious study, were I you.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Did this guy self-publish? SERIOUSLY??????

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    I must have missed the Scrabble thread.

    I think Peterson is on to something good. Very good. I e-mailed him awhile back, just as he was emerging on the 'scene'. Didn't hear back from him, which didn't surprise me. He must be busier than the proverbial one-armed paper hanger these days.

    His prose, from what I've read in his new book, is utilitarian bordering on mildly inspired at times. He says what he means without much flourish.

    It's interesting, a 100 years plus since Freud, and the issue of the psyche as a primary mover is still a nascent topic.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    jack,

    I agree - from the little I've now read, he comes across as a man struggling to find the words to express something larger than his intellect can wrap itself around.

    It may be that he is in touch with something so large, so complex, so over-archingly comprehensive... that it would be the work of a genius over a lifetime to begin to articulate it adequately. It is possible for something to be SO subtle that our attempts to give voice to the vision and the distinctions SEEM like contradictions and confusion. Some ideas don't lend themselves to being boxed in by words. The brain is an amazing thing, and human attempts to understand the body/anatomy are far ahead of efforts to understand the brain/psychology. Which are far ahead of our efforts to comprehend the soul/spirit.

    Or not.

    At this point, I'm leaning toward 'not'.

    But if it IS all of that. If he HAS tapped into the ineffable, in a seminal way... he still is not able to explain it. His stuff IS self-contradictory and mercurial. Unless you enjoy pondering the imponderable, for the sake of convincing yourself you're on a journey toward enlightenment... which you could do with a rubber ducky in your lap, without all the dense and prolix persiflage.l.. it's pretty much useless.

    I'd head back to Jung for some serious study, were I you.
    I think you give him way too much credit. Now, I haven't read a ton of his stuff so I could be wrong, but from what I have read, what he's struggling with is finding a way to state simple and well-known truths and ideals in overly complex, jargon-fille, academic - speak to make himself and his message appear to be something new and deeply profound. In doing so, he obfuscates the meaning and the message with contradictory, vague and semi-coherent rambling language that never seems to actually make any specific points. I can understand how this sort of thing appeals to some people - it sounds really profound and meaningful so it's easy to believe that it actually IS profound and meaningful if you don't think too critically about it.

    He would do everyone a favor if he would follow his own rule: Be precise in your speech.

    His audience would probably do themselves a favor if they'd give up his diagrams and ramblings and take up Zen. They'd gain more insight into themselves and humanity by just sitting and meditating on a regular basis.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    I think you give him way too much credit. Now, I haven't read a ton of his stuff so I could be wrong, but from what I have read, what he's struggling with is finding a way to state simple and well-known truths and ideals in overly complex, jargon-fille, academic - speak to make himself and his message appear to be something new and deeply profound. In doing so, he obfuscates the meaning and the message with contradictory, vague and semi-coherent rambling language that never seems to actually make any specific points. I can understand how this sort of thing appeals to some people - it sounds really profound and meaningful so it's easy to believe that it actually IS profound and meaningful if you don't think too critically about it.

    He would do everyone a favor if he would follow his own rule: Be precise in your speech.

    His audience would probably do themselves a favor if they'd give up his diagrams and ramblings and take up Zen. They'd gain more insight into themselves and humanity by just sitting and meditating on a regular basis.
    Yes, the odds are with your interpretation, and that of the article that F.O. referenced. And yet, I have heard similar sorts of seemingly muddled, confused, and contradictory language from academics who actually were onto something, but hadn't fully grokked it yet. At least not enough to explain it. But odds are you're right. And his schtick is just a schtick, which he himself seems to take seriously.

    I have one economist friend who used to teach, now consults, but whose real work is a way at looking at some aspects of economics that could be ground-breaking. Because we're old friends, and I have a bit of economics background, he used to bounce ideas off of me. It helped him sort thru things to have me attempt to pick it apart, and to insist on rigor. Now that he's putting it together, I can no longer help him, because his area is not mine, the structure of his reasoning has grown too large, and I simply can't keep up. He has some initial chapters for a book done, but he's not completely there yet on a theoretical level.

    But the point is - some of Peterson's writing reminds me of his - when he had only a glimmer of, and but a tenuous grasp on, the insight that's driving it all. Sometimes attempts to be precise end up being just wordy if the concept is still mostly nebulous in your mind. So... I'm not willing to absolutely write off Peterson. Just mostly inclined to.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Yeah, it's taken me more than 20 years, and about half of them were on the now-deceased scrabble thread.
    I suppose that's been replaced by Words with Friends. Someday, I will make it hard for my friend Mimi to beat me...

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    DavidG, what the heck!! I leave here for a while and when I come back you are quoting Jung and Jordan Peterson! I have been watching quite a bit of his videos on youtube; he is interesting. I got in a p*ssing match with some people in a film group in which I served on the board of directors. Peterson dislikes the "social justice warriors"...those hyper politically correct advocates of absolute identity political purity. He was almost fired from the U of Toronto for not using politically correct pronouns. Identity politics...that brought you the disaster of Donald Trump.

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    A friend just recommend his work. Seems like an interesting mixed bag at first blush --

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

    Anyone familiar with him?

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    DavidG, what the heck!! I leave here for a while and when I come back you are quoting Jung and Jordan Peterson! I have been watching quite a bit of his videos on youtube; he is interesting. I got in a p*ssing match with some people in a film group in which I served on the board of directors. Peterson dislikes the "social justice warriors"...those hyper politically correct advocates of absolute identity political purity. He was almost fired from the U of Toronto for not using politically correct pronouns. Identity politics...that brought you the disaster of Donald Trump.
    If you'd only let me keep the shop apron on...
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    If you'd only let me keep the shop apron on...
    The alt-right guys seem to love him. Though I don't think he desires their friendship. He is a fascinating phenomenon.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    The alt-right guys seem to love him. Though I don't think he desires their friendship. He is a fascinating phenomenon.
    Did you read the critique in Levitating Blackfish's #18??
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    To be fair, he us a lecturer more than a writer. His snippets of lectures from his u of Toronto classes are well worth listening to.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    The alt-right guys seem to love him. Though I don't think he desires their friendship. He is a fascinating phenomenon.
    He seems to share their contempt for people who fight for social justice, and had adopted their language in describing them. If he didn't want their peaches, why shake their tree?

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?


    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    A good piece? Are you joking? This is a crude hit piece, written in SJW-speak, that misunderstands and misrepresents Peterson at every turn. At 58 years of age I am no swooning acolyte and have my own disagreements with Peterson, both in large areas like economics (where, surprisingly for an ex-activist for a socialist party, his views are strangely and disappointingly underdeveloped) and in points of detail, but he deserves far better than this pitiful hatchet job. (It's also depressing to witness how vertiginously standards have fallen at the TLS.)
    Last edited by Khayyam1048; 07-30-2018 at 06:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    ^ What a strange first post to a Wooden Boat Forum.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Peterson may well share the alt-right's contempt for those who represent themselves as fighting for social justice, but he has also explained why he dislikes both the alt-right and the SJWs in terms of what he calls the "ideological possession" common to both. Those who wish to link him with the alt-right because he and they share a common enemy in the SJWs are clearly trying to smear Peterson by association. In so doing, they are grievously mischaracterising him.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    You'll have to explain why.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    This is a fair comment. Peterson is brilliant as a lecturer, public speaker and interviewee, but clumsy and pedestrian for the most part (odd bravura flashes aside) as a writer. He seems to be a natural performer who needs an audience as a sounding board as he develops his ideas (rather like an improvising jazz musician) in the act of presenting them.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    You'll have to explain why.
    First off, I had to Google SJW-speak.
    Social justice warrior (commonly abbreviated SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism,[1][2] as well as identity politics.[3] The accusation that somebody is an SJW carries implications that they are pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction,[4] and engaging in disingenuous arguments.[5]
    You will fit right in here with the likes of SB. Nothing like joining a conversation with a vitriolic ad hom to endear yourself to strangers.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Just another messiah substitute. The opportunists, fools and weak minded are always with us and a reliable meal ticket to someone with a gift of the gab.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    After Peterson was recommended to me - by a friendly, earnest, questing... but not always reliable source - I looked into him a bit.

    He appears to be another in a long line of folks who use large words, important sounding but vague phrases, and disjointed discourse to appear a 'deep thinker' to those who don't have the background to recognize the difference. He seems to alternate between being assiduously and punctiliously vague - hoping to offer no substance for any rebuttal - and outbursts of tenuously-grounded assertions. It's a bit dizzying, really.

    He may be onto some salient points. But - if so - he's really still in the exploration stage. Not ready for prime time... but appearing to crave it. So he ventures forth, not wholly prepared, to explore in public the nuggets of truth he has grasped. The problem seems to be that he hasn't used those nuggets to build anything coherent by way of theories or explanations of larger issues. But he keeps trying, developing his understanding in fits and starts, rejecting his prior comments, but not seeming to make a lot of progress toward a larger vision. Just offering up different, but equally bootless, theories.

    Either that - or he's a conceptual genius who just hasn't developed the language to express it. I'm not ruling that out entirely. Just mostly. Since my examination has been cursory... perhaps I'm being unfair. But after reading enough academic writing - both good and bad - I think I've got the picture.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    He appears to be another in a long line of folks who use large words, important sounding but vague phrases, and disjointed discourse to appear a 'deep thinker' to those who don't have the background to recognize the difference.
    That describes his charts exactly. Vaguely connected profound-appearing word salad, with some circles and boxes and arrows thrown in apparently for decoration.

    It's hard sometimes to tell the difference between an inarticulate genius and a pompous mediocrity.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    .
    Meh.

    Color me surprised that anyone would dredge up this thread. Especially a newbie.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    i've been watching a few of peterson's videos lately. they're entertaining and he makes some good points.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    That describes his charts exactly. Vaguely connected profound-appearing word salad, with some circles and boxes and arrows thrown in apparently for decoration.

    It's hard sometimes to tell the difference between an inarticulate genius and a pompous mediocrity.
    He's been described, amongst other things as "the stupid person's idea of a smart person".

    I haven't seen, heard or read much of his stuff, but, on the basis of what I have done, that seems to me to be quite apt. He certainly seems to have tuned in quite successfully to a strain of reactionary thought that seems to be popular at the moment in some quarters.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    A good piece? Are you joking? This is a crude hit piece, written in SJW-speak, that misunderstands and misrepresents Peterson at every turn. At 58 years of age I am no swooning acolyte and have my own disagreements with Peterson, both in large areas like economics (where, surprisingly for an ex-activist for a socialist party, his views are strangely and disappointingly underdeveloped) and in points of detail, but he deserves far better than this pitiful hatchet job. (It's also depressing to witness how vertiginously standards have fallen at the TLS.)
    Cool.

    So give us some of each. What are some specific critiques you'd offer of his work, as a whole? And what about his work is of value (deserves better)? Perhaps I've missed something...
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    He doesn't "shine" in print, I agree, but his lecture clips from his classrooms are pretty good. As are some at least of his other speaking and interview clips. I don't agree with the notion that he's "a stupid person's idea of a smart person;" he's actually a smart person. Just one who does not agree with various tropes in modern academic discourse that have become rather hegemonic. And likes being pugnacious and passive-aggressive in his delivery.

    I don't think Peterson's even really trying to say something "new" or "revolutionary" - I don't experience him as a reactionary, let alone an alt-con, or a neo-con, however much those folks seize upon him. The "rules" he proposes for getting oneself together (he's got an active clinical psych private practice, eh) aren't revolutionary or even outside of common sense. They're obviously, intentionally, pointedly based on the "received wisdom" of the Western culture, and supported by a fairly comprehensive command of the relevant clinical literature. His unpacking of biblical themes (note, he's not a supernatural-god-believing-Christian) to find actual value has a lot of commonality with what Northrop Frye did in English Lit through his rather illustrious academic career; similarly Peterson's unpacking of myth and legend isn't terribly different from what Joseph Campbell did.

    What's different is that Peterson is up front in saying that empirical quantitative data, including data from a wide variety of economic and social datasets, shows that quite pragmatically, people often choose to continue to embody bits of those myths and archetypes. Given free choice to do so. And Peterson argues that folks' choices to do so are not primarily driven by discourses of social domination or patriarchal oppression, but by what folks seem to genuinely prefer. By what is consistent with how folks tend to self-describe in established clinical psychology tools like the OCEAN personality tests - the tests which are accurate enough descriptors of one's tendencies and preferences that Cambridge Analytica used them to (successfully) sway elections through micro-targeted info, eh?

    I think that what Peterson would say is not that he's even really attempting to break new ideological ground; he's trying to indicate that there's empirical quantitative support across a raft of disciplines for attitudes and practices which have largely been disparaged in currently dominant academic circles as "cultural imperialism" or "social constructs." Peterson is saying that such disparagements have it backwards; that the social constructs (myths, legends, archetypes, norms) often arose from physiological experience. Experience which (as in his Lobster illustration) is physiologically observable and quantifiable in other species which broke off from our own evolutionary pathway hundreds of millions of years ago. Lobsters, he says, don't have social constructs of oppression/dominance, but their neurological markers react exactly as humans' do in situations of stress.

    That is, Peterson thinks it's unlikely that complex socially constructed narratives about fluid gender identity and heteronormative lobster oppression etc. are the reason that lobsters' neurotransmitter levels change when they meet up with other bigger or smaller lobsters. Or that male lobsters' levels are reliably different from females'. He figures that way back in evolutionary time, before lobsters and mammals diverged, some common ancestor of lobsters and humans developed this neurological system which we (and pretty much every other creature) share. Which suggests that it's flat wrong to argue that socially constructed gendered narratives among humans are the cause of gendered behaviour. That instead, humanity's various social constructs and narratives about such things arose as means of describing and explaining what people (and lobsters) are impelled towards by our physiology. The narratives are epiphenomenal, more than deterministic and oppressive.Again, that isn't exactly novel.

    We've talked for ages here on the forum about things like the adaptive nature of altruism for a species (though not for an individual within the species), and how this is a logical origin point for discourses of morality. We've talked about the adaptive nature of developing social relations, seen in species from wolves to lions to ants to herring to primates ... and how this is a logical origin point for discourses of nationalism or religious identity groups. Secular science-friendly Liberals are OK with that, are fully engaged in what they view as a legitimate and substantive line of inquiry. But somehow, we're not OK with Peterson exploring the same patterns respecting gender relationships.

    I don't see Peterson as a guru, or some enormously novel thinker; I disagree with quite a lot of what he says, actually. But I also don't think he's a wannabe academic or some kind of alt-right crackpot. His often pugnacious phrases and responses really get on my nerves, and IMO detract from what he says - but then again, interviewers and critics persist in making him out to say things which he actually doesn't, and then slaying their own strawmen. That would get me punchy too.
    Last edited by TomF; 07-30-2018 at 10:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    He doesn't "shine" in print, I agree, but his lecture clips from his classrooms are pretty good. As are some at least of his other speaking and interview clips. I don't agree with the notion that he's "a stupid person's idea of a smart person;" he's actually a smart person. Just one who does not agree with various tropes in modern academic discourse that have become rather hegemonic. And likes being pugnacious and passive-aggressive in his delivery.I don't think Peterson's even really trying to say something "new" or "revolutionary" - I don't experience him as a reactionary, let alone an alt-con, or a neo-con, however much those folks seize upon him. The "rules" he proposes for getting oneself together (he's got an active clinical psych private practice, eh) aren't revolutionary or even outside of common sense. They're obviously, intentionally, pointedly based on the "received wisdom" of the Western culture, and supported by a fairly comprehensive command of the relevant clinical literature. His unpacking of biblical themes (note, he's not a supernatural-god-believing-Christian) to find actual value has a lot of commonality with what Northrop Frye did in English Lit through his rather illustrious academic career; similarly Peterson's unpacking of myth and legend isn't terribly different from what Joseph Campbell did. What's different is that Peterson is up front in saying that empirical quantitative data, including data from a wide variety of economic and social datasets, shows that quite pragmatically, people often choose to continue to embody bits of those myths and archetypes. Given free choice to do so. And Peterson argues that folks' choices to do so are not primarily driven by discourses of social domination or patriarchal oppression, but by what folks seem to genuinely prefer. By what is consistent with how folks tend to self-describe in established clinical psychology tools like the OCEAN personality tests - the tests which are accurate enough descriptors of one's tendencies and preferences that Cambridge Analytica used them to (successfully) sway elections through micro-targeted info, eh?I think that what Peterson would say is not that he's even really attempting to break new ideological ground; he's trying to indicate that there's empirical quantitative support across a raft of disciplines for attitudes and practices which have largely been disparaged in currently dominant academic circles as "cultural imperialism" or "social constructs." Peterson is saying that such disparagements have it backwards; that the social constructs (myths, legends, archetypes, norms) often arose from physiological experience. Experience which (as in his Lobster illustration) is physiologically observable and quantifiable in other species which broke off from our own evolutionary pathway hundreds of millions of years ago. Lobsters, he says, don't have social constructs of oppression/dominance, but their neurological markers react exactly as humans' do in situations of stress. That is, Peterson thinks it's unlikely that complex socially constructed narratives about fluid gender identity and heteronormative lobster oppression etc. are the reason that lobsters' neurotransmitter levels change when they meet up with other bigger or smaller lobsters. Or that male lobsters' levels are reliably different from females'. He figures that way back in evolutionary time, before lobsters and mammals diverged, some common ancestor of lobsters and humans developed this neurological system which we (and pretty much every other creature) share. Which suggests that it's flat wrong to argue that socially constructed gendered narratives among humans are the cause of gendered behaviour. That instead, humanity's various social constructs and narratives about such things arose as means of describing and explaining what people (and lobsters) are impelled towards by our physiology. The narratives are epiphenomenal, more than deterministic and oppressive.Again, that isn't exactly novel. We've talked for ages here on the forum about things like the adaptive nature of altruism for a species (though not for an individual within the species), and how this is a logical origin point for discourses of morality. We've talked about the adaptive nature of developing social relations, seen in species from wolves to lions to ants to herring to primates ... and how this is a logical origin point for discourses of nationalism or religious identity groups. Secular science-friendly Liberals are OK with that, are fully engaged in what they view as a legitimate and substantive line of inquiry. But somehow, we're not OK with Peterson exploring the same patterns respecting gender relationships. I don't see Peterson as a guru, or some enormously novel thinker; I disagree with quite a lot of what he says, actually. But I also don't think he's a wannabe academic or some kind of alt-right crackpot. His often pugnacious phrases and responses really get on my nerves, and IMO detract from what he says - but then again, interviewers and critics persist in making him out to say things which he actually doesn't, and then slaying their own strawmen. That would get me punchy too.

    it's almost comical to go watch the full length video of the interviews that these hatchet job articles are based on. they go WAY out of their way to murder the context of what he's saying.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Damn, something weird on my computer isn't allowing paragraphs to separate. Sorry for that obliterating wall of text, folks.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Damn, something weird on my computer isn't allowing paragraphs to separate. Sorry for that obliterating wall of text, folks.


    hahhaha, i got through it... barely.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    "I never met a shrink who didn't need a shrink." - JoP

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Damn, something weird on my computer isn't allowing paragraphs to separate. Sorry for that obliterating wall of text, folks.
    Good text, though.

    I've watched a couple of his videos. Sometimes I agree strongly and admire his clarity. Sometimes I disagree. Sometimes I can't figure out what he's saying.

    But it seems like apart from all of that, he sometimes goes off the rails into reification, i.e. inventing concepts, building them into systems, and then arguing that the systems are the things themselves. As if nature distinguished between insects and mammals.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by downthecreek View Post
    He's been described, amongst other things as "the stupid person's idea of a smart person".

    I haven't seen, heard or read much of his stuff, but, on the basis of what I have done, that seems to me to be quite apt. He certainly seems to have tuned in quite successfully to a strain of reactionary thought that seems to be popular at the moment in some quarters.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    . . . humanity's various social constructs and narratives about such things arose as means of describing and explaining what people (and lobsters) are impelled towards by our physiology. The narratives are epiphenomenal, more than deterministic and oppressive. Again, that isn't exactly novel.
    Well, of course. To say otherwise is 'blank slate' hogwash, and pretends that we aren't evolved mammals - although it works both ways, of course; the cultural stuff does affects our thinking and behavior to some degree, and there are always some people who don't fit the standard categories. Puncturing fashionable academic nonsense is almost too easy. Steven Pinker does that kind of thing better, and far more coherently.

    Your paragraphs appear to have returned.

    'Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world' is a bit silly, even if you leave out the ludicrous 'perfect'. Nothing this side of mathematical equations is ever in perfect order anywhere.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Paragraphs re-emerged when I edited The Wall '0 Text on a different machine. But the Deus just isn't in one of my Machinas.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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