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Thread: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?


  2. #177
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    It's interesting that the fellow who mentioned Peterson to me is dyslexic, and ADD... and can not assimilate written information well at all. But he has a curious, active, if untutored, mind. And he watches hours and hours of videos from all sorts of folks.

    I'm just the opposite. I don't have time to invest in watching videos, but love reading.

    And here several folks have told us that videos is where Peterson shines. Written format... not so much.

    I wonder if part of the reason Peterson comes across better in video form is that it's harder to evaluate such information critically. With a book, you can easily stop at any moment and think about a word, phrase, chapter, or topic. You can flip back to a previous comment. You can look at the index and refresh your memory of what, precisely, was said - and how - about a particular example, analogy, metaphor, or detail.

    Watching a video seem a bit more of a 'swallow it whole' experience.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I wonder if part of the reason Peterson comes across better in video form is that it's harder to evaluate such information critically.
    You can wonder whether and even hope that is the case, but with Peterson you would be wrong. He's a natural performer who seems, rather like an improvising jazz musician (and here I speak from first-hand experience), to need an audience as a kind of emotional sounding board. Improvising in public, whether with music or words, is precisely to walk the precarious line between chaos and order that Peterson so frequently invokes.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Watching a video seem a bit more of a 'swallow it whole' experience.
    For sure. Like movies, suspension of disbelief.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    You can wonder whether and even hope that that is the case, but with Peterson you would be wrong. He's a natural performer who seems, rather like an improvising jazz musician (and here I speak from first-hand experience), to need an audience as a kind of emotional sounding board. Improvising in public, whether with music or words, is precisely to walk the precarious line between chaos and order that Peterson so frequently invokes.
    Being married to a musician who composes, writes lyrics, plays both piano and guitar beautifully, and who made her living for a bit doing jazz improv at a local cafe... and also having done some extemporaneous public speaking myself, I do understand the urge, the approach... and the talent it takes to perform in that way. And I see the parallel you are drawing. At the same time, having a bit of an academic background, I understand the clarity, rigor, cohesion, and precision required to produce something of value in that way.

    So... I understand the former. Do you understand the latter?

    From what you've said so far, I have to wonder. Are you so taken by his improv skills that the apparent holes in his logic/narrative disappear for you?

    Or... to put it another way... improv is about inspiration. Sometimes the unleashing of that inspiration can lead to brilliance. Sometimes - it just works! Though not always, of course. Science, otoh, involves reproducible results, and sustainable coherent logic strings stretching from hypothesis to conclusion... and beyond to overarching theory . Something Peterson seems not to shine at. Too many leaps. Too many gaps. Too much performance, not enough rigor.

    AND... none of that answers the question I posed in #177.

    AND... I have to object to your first sentence, above. I don't 'hope' anything about Peterson. I approached this thread with an open, but skeptical, mind. I've become more skeptical, not less, but remain open to being convinced that Peterson has something of substance to offer. I've invited you, or anyone, to convince me. Some folks I respect continue to think he's not a total write-off. So this assigning a motive where there is none is bs. The sort of sloppy rhetoric that I objected to previously in our conversations. I'm happy to engage with anyone who wants to meet me halfway, but I'm not at all willing to wade thru that sort of claptrap to get there. This is also the sort of logical sloppiness and intellectual dishonesty that makes me discount your opinion of Peterson a bit.
    David G
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  6. #181
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Being married to a musician who composes, writes lyrics, plays both piano and guitar beautifully, and who made her living for a bit doing jazz improv at a local cafe... and also having done some extemporaneous public speaking myself, I do understand the urge, the approach... and the talent it takes to perform in that way. And I see the parallel you are drawing. At the same time, having a bit of an academic background, I understand the clarity, rigor, cohesion, and precision required to produce something of value in that way.

    So... I understand the former. Do you understand the latter?

    From what you've said so far, I have to wonder. Are you so taken by his improv skills that the apparent holes in his logic/narrative disappear for you?

    Or... to put it another way... improv is about inspiration. Sometimes the unleashing of that inspiration can lead to brilliance. Sometimes - it just works! Though not always, of course. Science, otoh, involves reproducible results, and sustainable coherent logic strings stretching from hypothesis to conclusion... and beyond to overarching theory . Something Peterson seems not to shine at. Too many leaps. Too many gaps. Too much performance, not enough rigor.

    AND... none of that answers the question I posed in #177.

    AND... I have to object to your first sentence, above. I don't 'hope' anything about Peterson. I approached this thread with an open, but skeptical, mind. I've become more skeptical, not less, but remain open to being convinced that Peterson has something of substance to offer. I've invited you, or anyone, to convince me. Some folks I respect continue to think he's not a total write-off. So this assigning a motive where there is none is bs. The sort of sloppy rhetoric that I objected to previously in our conversations. I'm happy to engage with anyone who wants to meet me halfway, but I'm not at all willing to wade thru that sort of claptrap to get there. This is also the sort of logical sloppiness and intellectual dishonesty that makes me discount your opinion of Peterson a bit.
    I have done a first degree in Music (in the days when it was just Classical Music) and pursued postgraduate studies (as a musicologist) to PhD level; I have no idea whether this has (or possibly could have) endowed me with the qualities (clarity, rigour, cohesion and precision) that you mention.

    As a practitioner of jazz improvisation I must remark that inspiration, while it can and does occur, is - however desirable - neither a necessary nor an inevitable component of the enterprise. Your wife will be able to advise you that extemporisation was once widespread in classical music (and still survives among organists - I once heard an elaborate fugue improvised by a young French virtuoso in Derby Cathedral); there are books such as Christopher Simpson's "The Division Viol", Quantz's "On Playing the Flute" and C. Ph. E. Bach's "The True Art of Keyboard Playing" (to mention no others) that systematically train the student in, among other things, improvisation (often as an outgrowth of ornamentation, thoroughbass, etc.). Inspiration cannot be taught, but the mechanics of improvisation can be (although there are also brilliant autodidacts who seem to infer the principles without explicit instruction). There is, of course, an already vast and still rapidly growing library of materials related to the techniques of jazz improvisation.

    Peterson himself is a psychologist, and it seems to me - although I lack the background and training to assess the matter with any likely prospect of accuracy - that psychology, in point of rigour, lies somewhere between the hard sciences (generally more rigorous) and the social sciences (generally less so). Thus, on my analysis (for whatever it may be worth), the psychologist is apt to shuttle between the positivistic, quantifiable and demonstrable on the one hand, and the speculative, subjective and intuitive on the other.

    Could you be specific about the holes, the leaps and the gaps in Peterson's logic? I have noted small errors of fact in his lectures (concerning such things as the dates of events) and an annoying tendency on his part, for example, to treat "phenomena" as a singular noun (along with the mispronunciation of words that he has, presumably, only encountered in print), but - although I have studied critical thinking (and even elementary logic as an undergraduate) - I have not so far discerned any obvious lapses of reasoning in Peterson's discourse. Since I myself am not the subject of discussion here, I am less interested in my own purported lapses which, if they have occurred, are the result of human fallibility rather than vice.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?


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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    Try as I might, I cannot find the interview, speech or lecture in which Peterson declares that Hillary's campaign was only about identity politics. If you can direct me to it, I'll readily (if not exactly gladly) eat humble pie. What he has repeatedly said, in one form or another, is that she laid undue emphasis upon it, and that this cost her the election. I think the first part of this summary of Peterson's position is correct (a value judgement on my part, of course), but I lack the detailed knowledge of American politics to know whether the second part is supported by the facts. It has, to me, an intuitive ring of plausibility about it, but I admit that this is just a feeling on my part.

    Incidentally, which "advocate for right-wing identity politics" was he being interviewed by? (I am certainly aware that such people exist, and equally aware that Peterson has regularly condemned them.)

    I'd read bits of Freud, Nietzsche (via Richard Strauss's Also Sprach Zarathustra and later Bertrand Russell's very hostile chapter in "A History of Western Philosophy") and Jung (partly via Christopher Booker's "The Neophiliacs") in my late teens (born in 1960, I am two years older than Peterson), but he does seem to have put a bit of a new spin on them, and has certainly introduced their names and at least some of their ideas to people who might not otherwise have encountered them.
    If you're not going to view the links you ask me to view, I don't see why I should view them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    About 7 minute in, he said that identity politics are all the Democrats have to offer, it's that "or nothing." If he doesn't know more than that about American politics, why is he commenting on the topic?

    You didn't notice that, and you didn't notice that the interviewer is Douglas Murray, who wrote an entire book about how Europe faces "death" because its identity is threatened by Muslims immigrating. This is the sort of thing you are more likely to stop and think about if you're reading than if you're listening.

    You may like his performance, but I'm looking for a bit more depth than he seems to offer, based on what I've seen. If you could guide me to some of his writing that's reasonably short, I'll give it a shot, but my initial impression of his performance is that he adjusts to say what will get the desired response from his audience. If you're making money on public appearances, perhaps that makes sense. If you're offering real insights, the written word is better.

    I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to you more quickly. I'm extremely busy right now at my shop and on a book project, so I don't have a lot of time for listening to lectures. I can get a better picture, and get it more quickly, if you'll just provide me with something to read. I'm pretty sure I can give Peterson a fairer hearing in print than in performance, in part because he will be more careful and precise in his writing than in his speech.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    I have done a first degree in Music (in the days when it was just Classical Music) and pursued postgraduate studies (as a musicologist) to PhD level; I have no idea whether this has (or possibly could have) endowed me with the qualities (clarity, rigour, cohesion and precision) that you mention.

    As a practitioner of jazz improvisation I must remark that inspiration, while it can and does occur, is - however desirable - neither a necessary nor an inevitable component of the enterprise. Your wife will be able to advise you that extemporisation was once widespread in classical music (and still survives among organists - I once heard an elaborate fugue improvised by a young French virtuoso in Derby Cathedral); there are books such as Christopher Simpson's "The Division Viol", Quantz's "On Playing the Flute" and C. Ph. E. Bach's "The True Art of Keyboard Playing" (to mention no others) that systematically train the student in, among other things, improvisation (often as an outgrowth of ornamentation, thoroughbass, etc.). Inspiration cannot be taught, but the mechanics of improvisation can be (although there are also brilliant autodidacts who seem to infer the principles without explicit instruction). There is, of course, an already vast and still rapidly growing library of materials related to the techniques of jazz improvisation.

    Peterson himself is a psychologist, and it seems to me - although I lack the background and training to assess the matter with any likely prospect of accuracy - that psychology, in point of rigour, lies somewhere between the hard sciences (generally more rigorous) and the social sciences (generally less so). Thus, on my analysis (for whatever it may be worth), the psychologist is apt to shuttle between the positivistic, quantifiable and demonstrable on the one hand, and the speculative, subjective and intuitive on the other.

    Could you be specific about the holes, the leaps and the gaps in Peterson's logic? I have noted small errors of fact in his lectures (concerning such things as the dates of events) and an annoying tendency on his part, for example, to treat "phenomena" as a singular noun (along with the mispronunciation of words that he has, presumably, only encountered in print), but - although I have studied critical thinking (and even elementary logic as an undergraduate) - I have not so far discerned any obvious lapses of reasoning in Peterson's discourse. Since I myself am not the subject of discussion here, I am less interested in my own purported lapses which, if they have occurred, are the result of human fallibility rather than vice.
    The gaps in his logic? Several have already been mentioned. I'm not inclined to go back and dredge up more examples. I'll just say even my brief survey showed up several.

    But I think I've heard enough. It may turn out I'm missing something, but I'm willing to take that chance for now.
    David G
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    The gaps in his logic? Several have already been mentioned.
    Then mention them again, otherwise people might think that you are stalling/bluffing.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    If you're not going to view the links you ask me to view, I don't see why I should view them.



    About 7 minute in, he said that identity politics are all the Democrats have to offer, it's that "or nothing." If he doesn't know more than that about American politics, why is he commenting on the topic?

    You didn't notice that, and you didn't notice that the interviewer is Douglas Murray, who wrote an entire book about how Europe faces "death" because its identity is threatened by Muslims immigrating..
    Once again (as with some of your confrères on this forum), your tone is simultaneously passive-aggressive and self-righteous.

    Do you know, in the practical sense, what intellectual charity is?

    Of course, any sensible person "knows" that everything in Europe is just fine and that its burgeoning Muslim population present absolutely no problems. The problem is clearly Islamophobia on the part of the indigenous population. How dare bigots and hatemongers like Murray mention Theo van Gogh, Lee Rigby, Charlie Hebdo, the Manchester Arena bombing, the grooming, abuse and rape scandals in Rochdale, Rotherham, Telford, Oxford, etc., the vehicles driven into crowds, the acid attacks, the lawlessness in places such as the Parisian banlieues, Molenbeek, Malmö and Cologne...! Nothing to see here! Move on! Move on!
    Last edited by Khayyam1048; 08-09-2018 at 06:13 AM.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    We've had some Bilge threads go theologically circular due to the doggedness of one correspondent but it's something new and remarkable for a Forum member's entire oeuvre, running at a brisk 4.6 posts per day and producing 27% of this thread's post count, to be devoted to the intellectual glory of one Canadian.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    Then mention them again, otherwise people might think that you are stalling/bluffing.
    Some might. But they'd be wrong. Most will see that I've simply concluded for now that the game is not worth the candle.

    Wait... Jordan? Izaat you??
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Some might. But they'd be wrong. Most will see that I've simply concluded for now that the game is not worth the candle.

    Wait... Jordan? Izaat you??
    In other words, you have no constructive criticisms to offer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    We've had some Bilge threads go theologically circular due to the doggedness of one correspondent but it's something new and remarkable for a Forum member's entire oeuvre, running at a brisk 4.6 posts per day and producing 27% of this thread's post count, to be devoted to the intellectual glory of one Canadian.
    Er, the clue is in the name of the thread. And, as I've already made clear, I am not an uncritical admirer of Peterson, although on balance I see him as a force for the good. I'm just someone who has noticed huge amounts of pomposity and intellectual arrogance among his critics here, combined with evasiveness and sheer nastiness.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Some might. But they'd be wrong. Most will see that I've simply concluded for now that the game is not worth the candle.

    Wait... Jordan? Izaat you??
    I'll just leave this here . . .

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeter...%A1m_inspired/
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    Er, the clue is in the name of the thread. And, as I've already made clear, I am not an uncritical admirer of Peterson, although on balance I see him as a force for the good. I'm just someone who has noticed huge amounts of pomposity and intellectual arrogance among his critics here, combined with evasiveness and sheer nastiness.
    Oh, dear.

    That's the MIRROR, man!
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Oh, dear.

    That's the MIRROR, man!
    I haven't got the faintest idea what you might mean (assuming you mean anything).

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I use Khayyam as a monicker and Peterson makes a reference to The Rubaiyat so I must be Peterson, QED. Actually, no; if Peterson were here I'm sure he'd identify himself. I was born two years before Peterson in London, England, and have never pursued a career in Clinical Psychology.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    God, what an ornery bunch. All I can say is that Peterson draws the silliest diagrams I've seen in years, something like Tufte would make as an example of how not to do it.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Well... we all grow... we all gather wisdom... in our own ways, and in our own times. And sometimes one has to explore half-truths and partial explanations - that nonetheless lead us down a useful path - to prepare for a fuller understanding.

    So to all those who find Peterson to be useful/helpful in their journey... good on ya! Bon Voyage!!
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Well, Omar, it seems like the boys are either too busy to investigate Peterson or think they have seen right through it

    Peterson is perhaps unique on the American cultural scene at the moment. He actually summons one to think carefully. This is a rare commodity in this venue.

    Peterson got his first attention in mass media by his opposition to requirements by the university and ultimately provincial authorities which required transexuals to be addressed with whatever pronoun they desire.

    Perhaps a bit of background here would be useful. There are those that believe that they can change their genders at will. These genders are not strictly binary; in fact, the believe there are hundreds if not thousands of newly named genders. I stress this has nothing to do with sexuality; whatever happens between two people when the lights go out is no business of you or me. Actual incidents of transgender people is quite rare; there is no scientific evidence to argue otherwise. The rub came when transgendered people required others to call them by a certain pronoun. For example, it is common that a putatively transgendered person will want to be called "they" instead of he or she. When the university and provincial administration promulgated a legal requirement to do so, Peterson refused to acquiesce. At great personal and even physical risk. By the way, Peterson states he usually calls a person with the pronoun that they appear to desire. But he strenously objects to the government requiring certain pronouns to be used. The transgender movement is integral to a hyper-politically correct faction on the American political scene; they are sometimes called social justice warriors.

    Here is a parody, succinct and on the money:

    The social justice warriors often display thuggish behavior. Look at the videos of the Evergreen dust-up. You will see a transgender-identified person ranging the fringes of the mob with a baseball bat. Because Peterson opposed these fringe left wing groups, he attracted the attention of the alt.right. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Some will assume that he is alt.right but that is incorrect. He has portrayed himself as finding the Canadian Liberal Party as most agreeable with his thinking. The Liberals are center/left. Crudely put, they occupy roughly the same segment of the political spectrum as Hillary Clinton.

    The social justice warriors portray themselves as an outgrowth of the civil rights, anti-war and sexual minority movements of the 60s. But listen to my homeboy Mario Savio: "There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it — that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!" In the 50s and 60s civil right movements people paid with their lives to advance the movement. Similarly, in the 60s, people paid with their careers with their opposition to the stupid Vietnam war. As the humorous video above states, the modern social justice warriors risk little and advance little in the form of coherent thinking. Peterson called this simply narcissism.

    Note the difference between the quote by Savio and the behavior of the social justice warriors. Whereas, Savio called for opposition the government regardless of danger to oneself, the social justice warriors want the government to protect them.

    The extreme identity politics of this movement is gasoline to the fire of Trumpism. We should not be allowing these people more air...unless you want four more years of the Orange One.

    Omar, most of the boys assemble here to insult one another. However, one or two may be attracted enough to make the effort to look closely at Peterson's thinking. It is rewarding.



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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    intellectual masturbation isn't particularly rewarding.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    intellectual masturbation isn't particularly rewarding.
    It's much too hard to think, right?

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    What a tedious thread.

    And I should know, I've contributed to the most tedious, enough times.

    Andy
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    The extreme identity politics of this movement is gasoline to the fire of Trumpism. We should not be allowing these people more air...unless you want four more years of the Orange One.

    Omar, most of the boys assemble here to insult one another. However, one or two may be attracted enough to make the effort to look closely at Peterson's thinking. It is rewarding.
    As an Englishman I find American politics puzzling, or at any rate the level of emotional investment therein. At the last presidential election, you had, on the one hand, a barely-sane, ultra-right-wing zealot completely bought and paid for by corporate interests and the Military-Industrial Complex, and visibly hell-bent upon unleashing chaos upon the world, and on the other hand you had Donald Trump.

    It's like being asked whether you prefer to die in a housefire or from an aggressive brain tumour.

    I completely agree with you about the SJWs (even if that term got me into trouble in the first place). They're symptoms of a sick society.

    There is a fault line running down the middle of our societies in the developed world, and it's beginning to open into an unbridgeable abyss. Peterson, while he is not himself flawless, is a kind of Cassandra figure.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    What a tedious thread.

    And I should know, I've contributed to the most tedious, enough times.

    Andy
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    Once again (as with some of your confrères on this forum), your tone is simultaneously passive-aggressive and self-righteous.

    Do you know, in the practical sense, what intellectual charity is?

    Of course, any sensible person "knows" that everything in Europe is just fine and that its burgeoning Muslim population present absolutely no problems. The problem is clearly Islamophobia on the part of the indigenous population. How dare bigots and hatemongers like Murray mention Theo van Gogh, Lee Rigby, Charlie Hebdo, the Manchester Arena bombing, the grooming, abuse and rape scandals in Rochdale, Rotherham, Telford, Oxford, etc., the vehicles driven into crowds, the acid attacks, the lawlessness in places such as the Parisian banlieues, Molenbeek, Malmö and Cologne...! Nothing to see here! Move on! Move on!
    So, you agree with Murray, which is why you like Peterson? Got it.

    You ask me to look at a YouTube vid, and when I don't agree with your view of it you throw a hissy fit. Is that what you mean by intellectual charity? Is this post of yours intended to be persuasive, or just passive-aggressive and self-righteous? You certainly do project a lot.

    This thread is starting to look like a waste of time.

  30. #205
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    So, you agree with Murray, which is why you like Peterson? Got it.

    You ask me to look at a YouTube vid, and when I don't agree with your view of it you throw a hissy fit. Is that what you mean by intellectual charity? Is this post of yours intended to be persuasive, or just passive-aggressive and self-righteous? You certainly do project a lot.

    This thread is starting to look like a waste of time.
    There's actually quite a lot I disagree with Murray about (Neoconservatism, the 2003 Iraq War, whistleblowers like Julian Assange), so you're making unwarranted assumptions. I broadly share his concern about Islam and his disdain for multiculturalism, but I come at these problems from a different perspective. I don't know just how much of Peterson's philosophy Murray would actually endorse, and vice versa (Peterson, although he seldom comments on foreign policy, has openly condemned "liberal interventionist" wars as "idiotic" while Murray has publicly supported them).

    I don't ask you to do anything (you are, as an adult, free to make your own choices) but since you are commenting on a thread about Jordan Peterson I have to assume that you have some interest in the subject. I have expressed my opinions on a forum, not thrown fits, hissy or otherwise, and you should be careful about accusing others of projection.

    A thread like this becomes a waste of time when people do not observe basic ground rules of discourse, of which the Principle of Charity (which you somehow distort to mean agreement with my opinions, which is not at all what I myself understand by the term) is a good example, and use tricks of rhetoric to stall and avoid giving straight answers to straight questions.

  31. #206
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    What a tedious...

    Oh, I can't be bothered. Got reef points to sort out.

    One person's declarations of 'truth', the right way, 'answers to everything', should be taken with the biggest grains of cynical salt you can muster. End of.
    "We were schooner-rigged and rakish, with a long and lissome hull ..."

  32. #207
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    There's actually quite a lot I disagree with Murray about (Neoconservatism, the 2003 Iraq War, whistleblowers like Julian Assange), so you're making unwarranted assumptions. I broadly share his concern about Islam and his disdain for multiculturalism, but I come at these problems from a different perspective. I don't know just how much of Peterson's philosophy Murray would actually endorse, and vice versa (Peterson, although he seldom comments on foreign policy, has openly condemned "liberal interventionist" wars as "idiotic" while Murray has publicly supported them).

    I don't ask you to do anything (you are, as an adult, free to make your own choices) but since you are commenting on a thread about Jordan Peterson I have to assume that you have some interest in the subject. I have expressed my opinions on a forum, not thrown fits, hissy or otherwise, and you should be careful about accusing others of projection.

    A thread like this becomes a waste of time when people do not observe basic ground rules of discourse, of which the Principle of Charity (which you somehow distort to mean agreement with my opinions, which is not at all what I myself understand by the term) is a good example, and use tricks of rhetoric to stall and avoid giving straight answers to straight questions.
    I don't suppose you you can offer that thought in a chart or graph form? Or perhaps Peterson has already done one?
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  33. #208
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    What a tedious...

    Oh, I can't be bothered. Got reef points to sort out.

    One person's declarations of 'truth', the right way, 'answers to everything', should be taken with the biggest grains of cynical salt you can muster. End of.
    If you had the slightest familiarity with the thought of Jordan Peterson you would not entertain for a moment the thought that he is offering "answers to everything" or some definitive version of the truth.

  34. #209
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I don't suppose you you can offer that thought in a chart or graph form? Or perhaps Peterson has already done one?
    I assume there is some (presumably humorous) point to this comment, but I can't make out what it is.

  35. #210
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    If you had the slightest familiarity with the thought of Jordan Peterson you would not entertain for a moment the thought that he is offering "answers to everything" or some definitive version of the truth.
    You do not know a thing about me, or where my thoughts stem from. Goodnight.
    "We were schooner-rigged and rakish, with a long and lissome hull ..."

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