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Thread: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

  1. #1
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    Default Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    A friend just recommend his work. Seems like an interesting mixed bag at first blush --

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

    Anyone familiar with him?
    David G
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    You have a friend, indeed.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    'public intellectual'

    lol
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    'public intellectual'

    lol
    Interesting topic in its own right. I'll start a thread. Do you know Peterson?
    David G
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Right-winger? Not me, says alt-right darling Jordan Peterson

    To his growing legion of mostly male fans, Jordan Peterson is a cultural messiah, but to his critics he’s a professor of piffle. When the Canadian psychologist recently brought his brand of intellectual machismo to Australia, crowds flocked – and controversy followed.

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-a...17-p4za14.html

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    David,

    Thank goodness you are finally reaching out for professional help!
    Skip

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    ...........fighting against the deliberate polarization of politics...

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIP KILPATRICK View Post
    David,

    Thank goodness you are finally reaching out for professional help!
    It's TOO LATE for me. Save yourself!!!!!!!!
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    "Alt.right" isn't accurate, though "orthodox" certainly is. I find quite a lot of Peterson's ideas compelling, and others of them wrong-headed. But he is far from the caricature that some have made him to be.

    For instance, despite all claims you might read, he isn't sexist, or homophobic, or authoritarian, or a fantasist. He is very strong on personal accountability, on following data to conclusions rather than bowing to ideology. He is not Christian, but teaches courses on the foundational nature of biblical narratives in our culture - and their continuing relevance and meaning. He has zip time for discourse theories, for Marxism, or similar dodges to personal responsibility.

    He is also a practising clinical psychologist, who by all accounts has been very effective with his clients.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    A friend just recommend his work.
    it was ishmael?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    I've been seeing Dr. Bachmann. He has been wonderful!

    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    "Alt.right" isn't accurate, though "orthodox" certainly is. I find quite a lot of Peterson's ideas compelling, and others of them wrong-headed. But he is far from the caricature that some have made him to be.

    For instance, despite all claims you might read, he isn't sexist, or homophobic, or authoritarian, or a fantasist. He is very strong on personal accountability, on following data to conclusions rather than bowing to ideology. He is not Christian, but teaches courses on the foundational nature of biblical narratives in our culture - and their continuing relevance and meaning. He has zip time for discourse theories, for Marxism, or similar dodges to personal responsibility.

    He is also a practising clinical psychologist, who by all accounts has been very effective with his clients.
    Thanks, Tom, for the substantive response. The rest of these mugs... it's like trying to herd Catboats in a Force9 <G>

    So it sounds like you think he is worth exploring? <shaddup Skip!!>
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Ishmael has certainly posted Peterson's links. To me he's a bit like Bruno Bettelheim - Superficially provocative and interesting but the deeper you dig the less truth you find.

    Just to be clear for those who know a bit about Bettelheim, I am comparing the ways their ideas work, and certainly not even hinting that the various sordid things that came out about Bettelheim have any analogy in Peterson's life.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    He is worth listening to, though I admit he is a guy who loves a confrontation.

    I'd say he is closer to an actual conservative, not an alt- or neo-. Which means that what he argues for are values which only seem innovative because they are now less fashionable; he puts ideas together well, but is arguing for values which feel awfully familiar. His argument, though, is that the values are in fact valuable, and uncomfortable or not, describe things which are empirically so.

    Again, I don't agree with all his stuff by any means, but he is very bright, articulate (though a bit pugnacious and whiny), and can support all of what he says with lots of footnotes to actual studies.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Ishmael has certainly posted Peterson's links. To me he's a bit like Bruno Bettelheim - Superficially provocative and interesting but the deeper you dig the less truth you find.

    Just to be clear for those who know a bit about Bettelheim, I am comparing the ways their ideas work, and certainly not even hinting that the various sordid things that came out about Bettelheim have any analogy in Peterson's life.

    <snort>

    So you're saying his stuff is more superficial than substantive - and not worth investing time in?
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    An apologist for what may seem on reflection to surprise you as just "conventional wisdom". But which is still, for all its conventionality, often really wise.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Not exactly, David G. Peterson is generally short enough that his stuff is readily digested and not the worst provocation for thinking your own ideas. At some point you may find that just a few sentences in leaves you feeling somehow trivialized. Good time to give him a rest. Read some Niebuhr.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    From his recent book, "Twelve Rules for Life". Number nine.

    "Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don't".

    I work on that one, especially with those who assume a superior attitude and gratuitously insult their fellow humans. With those folks, after awhile, there is no reaching them and it's easier, and better, to just leave them to stew in their own juices.

    As I said months ago here, Peterson knows what he's talking about.
    Last edited by ishmael; 04-19-2018 at 01:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    I believe this article sums up pretty much all you need to know about Jordan Peterson. It's worth reading all the way through: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/...ual-we-deserve

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    "Happiness is a pointless goal. Don’t compare yourself with other people, compare yourself with who you were yesterday. No one gets away with anything, ever, so take responsibility for your own life. You conjure your own world, not only metaphorically but also literally and neurologically. These lessons are what the great stories and myths have been telling us since civilization began."

    Jordan Peterson

    His twelve rules:


    Stand up straight with your shoulders back
    Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping
    Make friends with people who want the best for you
    Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today
    Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them
    Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world
    Pursue what is meaningful (not what is expedient)
    Tell the truth – or, at least, don't lie
    Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don't
    Be precise in your speech
    Do not bother children when they are skateboarding
    Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street

    He, by setting rules in the first place, is not going to sit well with most of today's post-modern intellectuals. But as the old saw from WWII bomber pilots goes, "If you're taking flack it means you are over the target."

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Orca View Post
    I believe this article sums up pretty much all you need to know about Jordan Peterson. It's worth reading all the way through: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/...ual-we-deserve
    Thanks. Just the sort of thing I was looking for. And cohesive with the little bit of him I've sampled.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Were Peterson philosophically literate, he would know that the "pursuit of happiness" enshrined in our constitution is basic Enlightenment-utilitarian philosophy and means a bit more than the moral ambition of a cow.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    ishmael, as the man says, you must set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world.

    Let us know when you've achieved that perfection. Then we might listen to your crticisms.

    Oh, also be sure to stand up straight!
    I rather be an American than a Republican.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    "Happiness is a pointless goal. Donít compare yourself with other people, compare yourself with who you were yesterday. No one gets away with anything, ever, so take responsibility for your own life. You conjure your own world, not only metaphorically but also literally and neurologically. These lessons are what the great stories and myths have been telling us since civilization began."

    Jordan Peterson

    His twelve rules:


    Stand up straight with your shoulders back
    Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping
    Make friends with people who want the best for you
    Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today
    Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them
    Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world
    Pursue what is meaningful (not what is expedient)
    Tell the truth Ė or, at least, don't lie
    Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don't
    Be precise in your speech
    Do not bother children when they are skateboarding
    Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street

    He, by setting rules in the first place, is not going to sit well with most of today's post-modern intellectuals. But as the old saw from WWII bomber pilots goes, "If you're taking flack it means you are over the target."

    "Deteriorata"

    You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here.
    Deteriorata. Deteriorata.

    Go placidly amid the noise and waste,
    And remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
    Avoid quiet and passive persons, unless you are in need of sleep.
    Rotate your tires.
    Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself,
    And heed well their advice, even though they be turkeys.
    Know what to kiss, and when.
    Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do.
    Wherever possible, put people on hold.
    Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment,
    and despite the changing fortunes of time,
    There is always a big future in computer maintenance.

    Remember The Pueblo.
    Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate.
    Know yourself. If you need help, call the FBI.
    Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
    Especially with those persons closest to you -
    That lemon on your left, for instance.
    Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
    Would scarcely get your feet wet.
    Fall not in love therefore. It will stick to your face.
    Gracefully surrender the things of youth: birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan.
    And let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
    Hire people with hooks.
    For a good time, call 606-4311. Ask for Ken.
    Take heart in the bedeepening gloom
    That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.
    And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot,
    It could only be worse in Milwaukee.

    You are a fluke of the universe.
    You have no right to be here.
    And whether you can hear it or not,
    The universe is laughing behind your back.

    Therefore, make peace with your god,
    Whatever you perceive him to be - hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.
    With all its hopes, dreams, promises, and urban renewal,
    The world continues to deteriorate.
    Give up!


    <Courtesy of National Lampoon>
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Thanks. Just the sort of thing I was looking for. And cohesive with the little bit of him I've sampled.
    That was my take as well.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    I think Dr. Peterson would be first to agree, 'perfection is the enemy of the good'. No one I've met lives up to their ideals. That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep striving for them.

    “Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
    Or what's a heaven for?”

    Browning

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Canada has proven to be fertile ground for the alternative right wing intelligentsia. Britain as well. Both nations labor horribly under the anti-intellectualism and hateful identity politics that undergird political correctness and it is unsurprising that it's most vociferous critics hail from these places.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    I think Dr. Peterson would be first to agree, 'perfection is the enemy of the good'. No one I've met lives up to their ideals. That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep striving for them.

    “Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
    Or what's a heaven for?”

    Browning
    so when he says to set your house in perfect order before criticizing others, it's more of an ideal even though he says it's one of his "rules"...which seems to contradict his other rule about being precise in one's speech, or is that just an ideal too?

    And what if you really dislike skateboards and skateboarders...if you let your children skateboard, that might make you dislike them, and he says that you shouldn't do that, but what also says to not bother children when they are skateboarding...so what is one supposed to do?
    I rather be an American than a Republican.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Ah. Thanks very much Sr. Orca, that article probably saved me a fair amount of exasperation and wasted time. I might have taken Mr Peterson seriously. As someone who appreciates displaying ideas graphically, I think his 'maps of meaning' are complete howlers, utter gibberish, verging on parody. It's hard to look at these things without laughing; The Onion couldn't come up with them.




    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 04-19-2018 at 09:23 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    In the instances you mention, Brian, what are your rules?

    In just quoting his rules I've done a not a very satisfactory thing. There's a whole book devoted to their explication! Just borrowed it from the library. It's quite interesting.

    Peterson is a very bright guy, who has thirty years of clinical experience, about the same teaching, and a wide swath of intent study of western culture. Literature and film, mostly. He's strongly influenced by Jung, which is a huge plus for me. Jung was a genius. We are both Jungian in our take on life, so of course he speaks to me in ways he won't to others.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    In the instances you mention, Brian, what are your rules?

    In just quoting his rules I've done a not a very satisfactory thing. There's a whole book devoted to their explication! Just borrowed it from the library. It's quite interesting.

    Peterson is a very bright guy, who has thirty years of clinical experience, about the same teaching, and a wide swath of intent study of western culture. Literature and film, mostly. He's strongly influenced by Jung, which is a huge plus for me. Jung was a genius. We are both Jungian in our take on life, so of course he speaks to me in ways he won't to others.
    Jung is a good one to admire.
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Keith,

    "Maps of Meaning" is maybe twenty five years old? I agree, those diagrams are a bit of a mish mash. A younger man struggling to put labels on things he didn't understand. If you'd tried to diagram your understanding at thirty I wager it wouldn't be nearly so complex. But then you're an engineer, not a psychologist.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Mishmash is way too polite. There are many things I didn't understand at age thirty, and almost as many I don't understand now. And some things I thought I understood then, I now realize I don't; that may be a little wisdom. But I didn't write a 564-page book putting labels on things I didn't understand, with diagrams that are damn near the equivalent of the output of a random word generator.

    Sorry, Jack, maybe there's some wisdom in Mr. Peterson's stuff. But his particular style of intellectual pomposity gets my back up more than almost anything.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 04-19-2018 at 09:43 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    No, but you've now topped 48 thousand posts here.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Yeah, it's taken me more than 20 years, and about half of them were on the now-deceased scrabble thread.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    What happened to the scrabble thread?

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