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Thread: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

  1. #246
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayyam1048 View Post
    Without the support of a flotilla of wooden boats it would appear that this thread has already gone to a watery grave. Still, should anyone happen upon its sunken remains the following might be of interest:

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...8#.W3RYqn3TU1L
    Yikes. An 'analysis' that correctly notes that there are fewer strikes, and shrinking union membership, and suchlike - and puts it down to... 'a left that has given up on workers.'

    No other factors mentioned. No other possibilities suggested.

    And you find his work worthy of mention? Remarkable.
    David G
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  2. #247
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Yikes. An 'analysis' that correctly notes that there are fewer strikes, and shrinking union membership, and suchlike - and puts it down to... 'a left that has given up on workers.'

    No other factors mentioned. No other possibilities suggested.

    And you find his work worthy of mention? Remarkable.
    This is Professor Frank Furedi.

    What is your own take on the issues mentioned here? Where do you think Furedi errs? What has he overlooked?

  3. #248
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    This current news article reminded me of this thread. Kareem is not impressed --

    ”Jordan B. Peterson’s DIY Cult: When Malicious Nonsense Passes for Worldly Wisdom”

    https://www.basketballnetwork.net/of...ordan-peterson
    David G
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  4. #249
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Jordon Peterson vs David G. Now that would be a sight to see.

    Why any of us play on social media including this platform is suspect. there is no one on line with a following that do not have their haters. Those who market and make revenue from this cult and anti cults heroes understand what brings eyeballs, clicks and relevance to their segment of the internet. Now a former NBS superstar gets his turn connecting his fame to one of the hottest properties on line.

    Peterson's current war with twitter and a series of personal setbacks these past years is taking a toll on an intelligent man now raw, supported by millions, struggling against the troller-net, the woke public and the ability to question why traditional considerations to life, sex and specifically to straight male gender to a changing society don't apply. Why Peterson never took a Joe Rogan deal would be an interesting exploration.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-17-2022 at 09:20 AM.
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  5. #250
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    I’m 40 lbs lighter than when this thread started.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    good quote from kareem, from david's link, in support of the gender transition of elliot page. relevant to some other recent threads here, regarding the power of words and names:

    “Fifty years ago, when I chose to convert to Islam, I heard a lot of the same complaints that Page faces. People thought I was influencing Black children away from Christianity, that I was ungrateful to the country, that I was insulting my Catholic upbringing. In fact, I chose a religion that took me back to my African roots rather than the religion that the slaveholder who owned my ancestors followed. I felt more like Me. Some people then—and still today—refuse to call me by my legal name, as if they should have the power to determine my identity. That’s just another form of slavery.”
    kareem is the very best definition of woke.

  7. #252
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Mishmash is way too polite. There are many things I didn't understand at age thirty, and almost as many I don't understand now. And some things I thought I understood then, I now realize I don't; that may be a little wisdom. But I didn't write a 564-page book putting labels on things I didn't understand, with diagrams that are damn near the equivalent of the output of a random word generator.

    Sorry, Jack, maybe there's some wisdom in Mr. Peterson's stuff. But his particular style of intellectual pomposity gets my back up more than almost anything.
    I've read a bit of Peterson and I agree with this take from Keith. I don't express my ideas here or anywhere else very often because the older I get the more I realize there's a lot more that I don't know than that I'm some sort of expert on. That said, I know what bloviating is when I see it. Peterson is the very epitome of it.

  8. #253
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    The perfect foil to a perfectly formed idiot.

    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  9. #254
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Jordon Peterson vs David G. Now that would be a sight to see.

    Why any of us play on social media including this platform is suspect. there is no one on line with a following that do not have their haters. Those who market and make revenue from this cult and anti cults heroes understand what brings eyeballs, clicks and relevance to their segment of the internet. Now a former NBS superstar gets his turn connecting his fame to one of the hottest properties on line.

    Peterson's current war with twitter and a series of personal setbacks these past years is taking a toll on an intelligent man now raw, supported by millions, struggling against the troller-net, the woke public and the ability to question why traditional considerations to life, sex and specifically to straight male gender to a changing society don't apply. Why Peterson never took a Joe Rogan deal would be an interesting exploration.
    Peterson is perfectly happy to expound on topics on which he has faulty or little real knowledge. He earns his detractors the old fashioned way; by being wrong. See above video.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    The perfect foil to a perfectly formed idiot.

    Thx, most worthwhile.

  11. #256
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Jordon Peterson vs David G. Now that would be a sight to see.

    Why any of us play on social media including this platform is suspect. there is no one on line with a following that do not have their haters. Those who market and make revenue from this cult and anti cults heroes understand what brings eyeballs, clicks and relevance to their segment of the internet. Now a former NBS superstar gets his turn connecting his fame to one of the hottest properties on line.

    Peterson's current war with twitter and a series of personal setbacks these past years is taking a toll on an intelligent man now raw, supported by millions, struggling against the troller-net, the woke public and the ability to question why traditional considerations to life, sex and specifically to straight male gender to a changing society don't apply. Why Peterson never took a Joe Rogan deal would be an interesting exploration.
    You might enjoy it... or not. But I suspect it wouldn't last long... if it were 'in-person'. I've really run low on patience (in case you hadn't noticed) for logical fallacies, sloppy rhetoric, mouthing off loudly in ignorance, unbuttressed assertions which you refuse to support, willfully hateful thrusts, ducking challenges, pretentious pomposity, dodging facts, coasting on a 'plausible' schtick, and other similar bs. All of which seems to be his standard M.O. It would be a test of my character to see if I could refrain from slapping him upside the head if he started down that road... as he inevitably would.
    David G
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  12. #257
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Now David don’t let your humility hold you back.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Thumbs up Lee. How about we get together again one of these days soon and compare BMIs and evolving tastes in rum. Or skip the rum. I drive to remote locations. We can catch up and watch Vexler while we enjoy takes from a master.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Diversion: There’s a strange thing going on with my interface
    to the forum. I post videos that y’all seem to see but they are invisible to me. I have learned to take it on faith that the videos post as they should because they don’t register on my screen.

    In any case, Vlad Vexler is perhaps my favorite modern political philosopher and deep thinker in this area. As a native Russian speaker and one who uses English better than native E speakers, he has broad access and perfect translation capabilities. He got just enough touch of the USSR and Putin to see through the veil and is sufficiently brilliant to cogitate the rest. Love him.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Oh. And Hi Ho David! Peterson is janky on this among other topics so good call years ago, more so now.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Thumbs up Lee. How about we get together again one of these days soon and compare BMIs and evolving tastes in rum. Or skip the rum. I drive to remote locations. We can catch up and watch Vexler while we enjoy takes from a master.
    Sounds excellent. Tried to send you a pm but yr full.

  17. #262
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Now David don’t let your humility hold you back.
    Dunna worry, I shan't.

    I've been fending off lying bs'ers since I first started organizing against the Vietnam War. Every step of the way, there has been some vested interest willing to mislead, spin, lie, and misrepresent to protect their (mostly financial) interests. These days, there's a lot more 'cultural' basis for the lies, as opposed to purely economic. Now, it's even more about power. And tribalism - which is just the latest dodge used to mislead and distract.

    But the tactics remain the same.

    So... it's not arrogance to assert that I've come to recognize the patterns of obfuscation typically employed. And to detest them... no matter who is wielding them.

    Mr. Peterson has me at a bit of a loss, though. Because his motivation is not quite the same as I'm used to. He's not primarily motivated by protecting corporate interests. He's not attempting to advance a political career (for power and money). Instead, he seems to be all about personal promotion. My sense is - he loves the limelight, and is smart enough to have developed a plausible schtick in order to keep himself there. And, like all the best bs'ers, he mixes in enough actual fact... even some interesting insights... to keep us interested.
    David G
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  18. #263
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post

    Mr. Peterson has me at a bit of a loss, though. Because his motivation is not quite the same as I'm used to. He's not primarily motivated by protecting corporate interests. He's not attempting to advance a political career (for power and money). Instead, he seems to be all about personal promotion. My sense is - he loves the limelight, and is smart enough to have developed a plausible schtick in order to keep himself there. And, like all the best bs'ers, he mixes in enough actual fact... even some interesting insights... to keep us interested.
    ...as opposed to the rest of us here...

  19. #264
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    He could be just trying to help.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Coming to a streaming service near you: Seduced by Celebrity, the Jordan Peterson story.
    Last edited by Stiletto; 07-17-2022 at 07:06 PM.
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  21. #266
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Dunna worry, I shan't.

    I've been fending off lying bs'ers since I first started organizing against the Vietnam War. Every step of the way, there has been some vested interest willing to mislead, spin, lie, and misrepresent to protect their (mostly financial) interests. These days, there's a lot more 'cultural' basis for the lies, as opposed to purely economic. Now, it's even more about power. And tribalism - which is just the latest dodge used to mislead and distract.

    But the tactics remain the same.

    So... it's not arrogance to assert that I've come to recognize the patterns of obfuscation typically employed. And to detest them... no matter who is wielding them.

    Mr. Peterson has me at a bit of a loss, though. Because his motivation is not quite the same as I'm used to. He's not primarily motivated by protecting corporate interests. He's not attempting to advance a political career (for power and money). Instead, he seems to be all about personal promotion. My sense is - he loves the limelight, and is smart enough to have developed a plausible schtick in order to keep himself there. And, like all the best bs'ers, he mixes in enough actual fact... even some interesting insights... to keep us interested.
    I think the term you're looking for is 'camera moth.'

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I think the term you're looking for is 'camera moth.'
    Sounds apt.

    And viewing recent fotos of him, I'd say the strain of the games is taking its toll.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    I see Peterson as one of those “worst damn fool you’d ever want to meet…” types

    Jeff C
    Don’t expect much, and you won’t be disappointed…

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    "Alt.right" isn't accurate, though "orthodox" certainly is. I find quite a lot of Peterson's ideas compelling, and others of them wrong-headed. But he is far from the caricature that some have made him to be.

    For instance, despite all claims you might read, he isn't sexist, or homophobic, or authoritarian, or a fantasist. He is very strong on personal accountability, on following data to conclusions rather than bowing to ideology. He is not Christian, but teaches courses on the foundational nature of biblical narratives in our culture - and their continuing relevance and meaning. He has zip time for discourse theories, for Marxism, or similar dodges to personal responsibility.

    He is also a practising clinical psychologist, who by all accounts has been very effective with his clients.
    First look at this thread, and my first knowledge of the man.
    But Tom, from just that para I bolded, there's enough to get me interested.
    Despite DavidG's misgivings…..

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    ...as opposed to the rest of us here...
    this might be the most insightful remark.

    Petersons views and his popularity suggest he is speaking to folks hungry for some ethical and moral guidance roadmap in a world where immoral and unethical behavior is rewarded and forgiven. Would like to hear from some of his critics here, who they would suggest to aspiring young men who want to figure out their place these contradictory times which seeks to invalidate or discount their voice, drive and actions.
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  26. #271
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Firstly, I hope that aspiring young women are as welcome to the quest for values as young men are. That was a major issue for people of my generation, what with folk like Stokely Carmichael shouting that the only place for a woman in the Movement was on her back.

    Secondly, every generation needs to learn for itself how the leaders and teachers of previous generations, from whom they learn, are human and thus flawed.

    Mainly, engage in something right in front. A service organization that brings food to the needy. A community group fighting for clean water or filled pot holes. A scout troop. No one can do it all but everyone can do something.

    Justice makes her moves in the particular. Grand moral theorizing feels good. Addressing town council about local air pollution does good.

  27. #272
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    Firstly, I hope that aspiring young women are as welcome to the quest for values as young men are. That was a major issue for people of my generation, what with folk like Stokely Carmichael shouting that the only place for a woman in the Movement was on her back.

    Secondly, every generation needs to learn for itself how the leaders and teachers of previous generations, from whom they learn, are human and thus flawed.

    Mainly, engage in something right in front. A service organization that brings food to the needy. A community group fighting for clean water or filled pot holes. A scout troop. No one can do it all but everyone can do something.

    Justice makes her moves in the particular. Grand moral theorizing feels good. Addressing town council about local air pollution does good.
    JP concentrates on young men because he is a man, and because he sees many of societies ills as coming from a rudderless and meaningless life for young men. Young women need something similar, based on what I see with many young women today, but that needs to come from women.

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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Sounds excellent. Tried to send you a pm but yr full.
    Try again!
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  29. #274
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    this might be the most insightful remark.

    Petersons views and his popularity suggest he is speaking to folks hungry for some ethical and moral guidance roadmap in a world where immoral and unethical behavior is rewarded and forgiven. Would like to hear from some of his critics here, who they would suggest to aspiring young men who want to figure out their place these contradictory times which seeks to invalidate or discount their voice, drive and actions.
    He could be the greatest therapist in the world and a moral authority and still be a damn fool when it comes to international politics as they relate to East-West relations and specifically, Ukraine. And I suggest he is just that....ill informed on topics he expounds about. Whiffing his own exhaust as unit were. Watch the video.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  30. #275
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    He could be the greatest therapist in the world and a moral authority and still be a damn fool when it comes to international politics as they relate to East-West relations and specifically, Ukraine. And I suggest he is just that....ill informed on topics he expounds about. Whiffing his own exhaust as unit were. Watch the video.
    Rather than argue about Peterson's virtues and detractions memes, can you suggest someone else you think is a responsive male role model addressing the questions of male youth helping them find their their place in changing times that is currently relevant? I have yet to meet a man without flaws, the more so that makes his living being asked to share in pod casts, deeply involved on line and engaging in speaking tours defending his opinions.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-18-2022 at 01:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Sometimes he's good, sometimes bad. His case shows why debate is good. Real debate, not the dog drool people think is debate. They think "having a conversation" is debate, e.g. "CRT is just having a conversation about race."

    Debate is where time is limited and questions cannot be ducked. The rules are founded upon experience.

    As far as I've seen, Peterson has never had to debate a serious opponent; only a flood of ad hominem.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Sometimes he's good, sometimes bad. His case shows why debate is good. Real debate, not the dog drool people think is debate. They think "having a conversation" is debate, e.g. "CRT is just having a conversation about race."

    Debate is where time is limited and questions cannot be ducked. The rules are founded upon experience.

    As far as I've seen, Peterson has never had to debate a serious opponent; only a flood of ad hominem.
    The real issue is that people argue with him about feelings over facts. His response pointing out those expressed feelings as facts is what trips up his debaters. A trained educated debater could have a conversational debate rather than a response by wounded feelings or what happens here - a thread drift.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-18-2022 at 01:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Who knows the work of Jordan Peterson, psychologist?

    In that four year old thread are several examples of Peterson tripping over his own verbiage. And a long article that's really a demolition job to which Peterson and his apologists have no coherent reply. The best protection against authoritarian mishmash is humor. So listen to tapes of that philosophical entertainer Alan Watts.

    Therapy is a process that, fortunately, does not depend on metaphysical or sociological coherence. It is possible that Peterson's work as a therapist helps his clients.

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