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Thread: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

  1. #1
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    Default Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    I am rebuilding my Mirror 11 dinghy. It is all in pieces and I am going to have to use some of the old sections as a template and cut new sections. However, the two aft bottom panels were in very bad condition and just fell apart, which means I have no template to use to cut new pieces, or panels. Is there anywhere I can find the exact measurements of these panels, apart from trying to find another Mirror locally and measuring it? Thanks, all.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Welcome to the forum.
    There are several Mirror rebuild threads on here. Maybe someone can make a paper template from their boat and mail it to you.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    This is the unfortunate side effect of Mirrors being built only from kits and no actual hull drawings being included with the kit.Worse still,Bell Woodworking went out of business several years ago and can't be asked for advice.Nick's suggestion of ploughing through the older threads here is a good one.One other approach might be to contact the class association to see if they have any useful suggestions.Maybe the CVRDA too.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    This is the unfortunate side effect of Mirrors being built only from kits and no actual hull drawings being included with the kit.
    But plans were available, schools in particular built many Mirror dinghies, I helped with a few for my school, all from plans.
    Building my own one (22343) from a kit was bliss after cutting a few out, with hand tools (builds character apparently)

    Neil.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    You might check with these guys: http://www.mirror.org.za/ And possibly post something here: http://forum.mirrordiscussforum.org/...stination=node I'll watch and see if you come up with something. If all else fails, I'll roll mine over and pull a pattern off for you.

  6. #6
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    Smile Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    You might check with these guys: http://www.mirror.org.za/ And possibly post something here: http://forum.mirrordiscussforum.org/...stination=node I'll watch and see if you come up with something. If all else fails, I'll roll mine over and pull a pattern off for you.
    Would you do that? If it were simply rectangular with straight edges, I'd simply need the width and length. However, if you could tell me the width (in millimetres?) of each end and then perhaps exactly halfway along its length, and at the quarter-mark, if you get me, so that I can etch the parabola effect on the outer edge. That would be a great help !

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Thanks for your reply, Peerie. I see you're from Cumbria. You may be interested to read that I spent a happy eight months working on a farm at Coniston, where I bought and sailed my first Mirror dinghy, back in the late 80s.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Hello, John. As I said to Peerie, I worked on a farm at Coniston in the Lake District in the late 80s. I also spent some time on the Norfolk Broads, where I had some good friends who lived near Acle. (We're still in touch). I took my Mirror down from Coniston to the Broads and kept her there. Had a happy sail one day up to Potter Heigham. A sailing club took the boat over when I returned to South Africa.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell B View Post
    Thanks for your reply, Peerie. I see you're from Cumbria. You may be interested to read that I spent a happy eight months working on a farm at Coniston, where I bought and sailed my first Mirror dinghy, back in the late 80s.
    Coniston is nice, and good sailing water.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell B View Post
    Would you do that? If it were simply rectangular with straight edges, I'd simply need the width and length. However, if you could tell me the width (in millimetres?) of each end and then perhaps exactly halfway along its length, and at the quarter-mark, if you get me, so that I can etch the parabola effect on the outer edge. That would be a great help !
    You cannot rely on any of the edges being straight nor the corners square. A paper template will be easier to make on the boat and easier to use on the ply.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    I had thought of going round to our local sailing club and sourcing one, myself. However, there's so much information on the Internet, I wondered whether that was the route to take. Failing everything, I would put all the sections together that I have and work out ("fill") the remaining space with my own aft bottom panels, hopefully entirely accurate.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Hi Russell,
    That would probably be more accurate in the long run. Even if I pull a pattern off LookingGlass she may be off from yours by several mms, depending on how the corners were pulled during the "stitch & tape" build. Let me know if you're really desperate, though. Do you have all the corners and edges on yours? If so, you'er golden. Pictures always help We're definitely a photo-hungry lot

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    I just googled mirror dinghy plans and found this, it is a member (pay) only site http://www.myboatplans.com/searchresults.php

    Neil.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Russell

    Try contacting Trident Marine in Gateshead, they supply Mirror parts and may be able to give the correct dimensions.
    https://www.tridentuk.com/gb/boats-a....html?limit=48
    Nick

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by hornet 6 View Post
    But plans were available, schools in particular built many Mirror dinghies, I helped with a few for my school, all from plans.
    Building my own one (22343) from a kit was bliss after cutting a few out, with hand tools (builds character apparently)

    Neil.
    I'm not sure how that situation developed but I do have knowledge of how keen some Mirror racers were in the seventies and eighties to gain an advantage.They bought the standard kit and "damaged" some of the components so that they could substitute lighter alternatives.I don't suppose they would have gone to the trouble if ordinary plans had been readily available.

    As for the repair of the boat in question,a roll of brown paper and a boat to wrap a piece round would probably be the easy solutionA little surplus might be prudent for fine tuning.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Thanks, John. I think so, too.

    Nick's link has proved helpful in that it has come up with a picture of the aft bottom panel, on the Trident page. I have printed it out and examined it. It is very nearly rectangular, though not entirely so. It seems to be fractionally wider forward and of course has the cutaway. I think this will give me a head start. Thank you, everybody, for your comments.

    Thanks, Neil. I had a look at myboatplans. Don't think I need to go to that length, but it was fascinating. Thanks, Hugh, for the offer.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Cool! Looking forward to seeing pics!

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    S3700117.jpgS3700122.jpg

    This is what it looks like now, Hugh ! The bows upturned and the rest of the sections against the walls of the house — a sorry sight, indeed ! Hope you can see them properly. This is the first time I'm uploading pics. You gentlemen can see that I've got a real project on my hands — and I'm not an experienced boat builder, just someone who likes to work with wood.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    I'm in my fifties and have worked all my life (of course). However, I'm just at that stage where I really need a break. I run my own one-man business and have decided to close for the interim. For the next three or four months I'm going to take off time to rest and to work on restoring it. I have a lovely, grassed sheltered courtyard, part of which you can see above. We're going into lovely sunny autumn in South Africa. My office overlooks it all and I place my computer speakers on the windowsill and come up with wonderful playlists of music to work by. Lots of work ahead but I'm really looking forward to this period of my life.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    OH MY! You DO have a project! It looks like you mostly have patterns to make a whole new boat, and not complete patterns at that! I hope you'll have time to document your project and share it with us. Maybe watching you will light a fire under my sorry @$$ and I'll roll mine over and actually get some work done on it! I've been procrastinating, working on a recently acquired frozen snot boat (and an old house and a few hundred other things) but since I truly am retired I really have no valid excuse! Good on ya!

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Hallo Russel,

    As a fellow South African, stop right there.
    There is nothing unique about a Mirror dinghy unless you have boat number 1. Chuck that hull away. I am a big fan of restoration and preservation of old sailing boats but some boats you must walk away from. It is not worth spending any time or money on that hull never mind how much you like boatbuilding.
    I see you live in KZN. That area was a Mirror dinghy stronghold back in the 1970's and 1980's and the suburbs will be full of long forgotten Mirrors lying in carport a and store rooms. Put out word on all the local Facebook pages in your area that you want an old abandoned Mirror and my bet is you wil get a fixer upper for FREE. Whatever you get will be better than what you have there. No ways will you get that boat rebuilt and symmetrical to resemble a Mirror again. Well, not within your sabbatical from work.
    You can always transfer the rig you have over to another hull.

    Have fun and enjoy the break.

    Frans.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    That goes even beyond Duncan's Mighty Pippin restoration.Quite a challenge,but if you want the satisfaction go right ahead.If you just want to go sailing the advice from Frans is appropriate.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Russell

    You're going to need a bit of help with that!

    Having a quick google, I came up with these
    http://www.ukmirrorsailing.com/index...-mirror-dinghy
    The link to the Canadian building instructions (50 page pdf) will be of most help as it contains some sketch plans with some dimensions. There's other links to restoration blogs etc.

    Nick

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    I think I've just found a Mirror supplier in South Africa! It occurred to me that if I can order these panels from an authorised manufacturer I'd be away. I still need to renew various other panels, but I have the old pieces and can use them as a template. In the case of the aft bottom panels, I don't have them any more — that's been the problem. The weather's improved after the recent cold front and I'm looking forward to getting down to some sanding.

    Frans, thank you. I need a project like this. Looking forward to the satisfaction of it.

    Nick, I looked at the website but didn't find dimensions of those panels (?).

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Hallo Russel,
    In SA the guys who can assist with Mirrors are Roy McBride of CKD Boats in Houtbay. roy@ckdboats.co.za and maybe also Stephen du Toit at Performance Craft in Cape Town.
    Roy cuts the parts CNC and is also a marine ply dealer. Google CKD boats and Mirror. You will find a lot of good stuff on his blogspot. Stephen has built the wooden boats which have either won the Worlds or placed right at the top end of the fleet.
    Regards.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Thanks, Frans. It was Roy that I e-mailed. We'll see what he says.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Frans, one thing: What's CNC?

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell B View Post
    I think I've just found a Mirror supplier in South Africa! It occurred to me that if I can order these panels from an authorised manufacturer I'd be away. I still need to renew various other panels, but I have the old pieces and can use them as a template. In the case of the aft bottom panels, I don't have them any more that's been the problem. The weather's improved after the recent cold front and I'm looking forward to getting down to some sanding.

    Frans, thank you. I need a project like this. Looking forward to the satisfaction of it.

    Nick, I looked at the website but didn't find dimensions of those panels (?).
    Russell

    The building instructions http://www.ukmirrorsailing.com/image...structions.pdf I referred to only give sketch plans showing the locations for mounting components with dimensions taken from the edge of the panels. I thought these may able to help you deduce the correct shape for the panels from damaged originals. As you don't have the originals they're not much help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell B View Post
    Frans, one thing: What's CNC?
    CNC = Computer numerical control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_control

    Nick

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I'm not sure how that situation developed but I do have knowledge of how keen some Mirror racers were in the seventies
    Pretty sure it was a special deal done by the department of education, patterns were closely guarded, I know when I need a replacement port side bow knee I couldn't get a look, I had to take a patten off the starboard and flip it.
    There a few other school only classes, one spring to mind the Alpha, bit like a very heavy very slow version of a 505. Lol
    Built like a tank, school sailing club was about 20 strong, if only 9 turned up then we couldn't launch one without teacher help.

    Neil.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell B View Post
    Frans, one thing: What's CNC?
    Hallo, it means that the cutting is done by a computer controlled cutter. So accuracy is guaranteed.
    Regards.
    Last edited by Frans Loots; 04-22-2018 at 06:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by hornet 6 View Post
    Pretty sure it was a special deal done by the department of education, patterns were closely guarded, I know when I need a replacement port side bow knee I couldn't get a look, I had to take a patten off the starboard and flip it.
    There a few other school only classes, one spring to mind the Alpha, bit like a very heavy very slow version of a 505. Lol
    Built like a tank, school sailing club was about 20 strong, if only 9 turned up then we couldn't launch one without teacher help.

    Neil.
    I have to agree with your conclusion about a special deal.The Alpha brings back a memory or two,I believe it was the first British dinghy designed specifically for GRP production and I don't suppose they had any desire to go out on a limb with light scantlings.They may outlive lots of other hulls but I can't be sure when the last was launched.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Hello, Hugh. Tell me more about the work you need to do on this boat of yours. I'd like to hear about your project . . .

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Hi Russel,
    I started my (minor) project three years ago, but haven't had time to get very far: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...a-Mirror-Dingy. I fixed some of the photucket pics so you can see what I have. I've been distracted by house projects, weddings and the acquisition of an old Santana 35 that I got for $2000 and a fifth of Glenmorangie. But I've committed to having My mirror (LookingGlass) in time for the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival.
    Here's the other distraction:
    Picture0326181729_1.jpgIMG_6297.jpgSt Helens Long Dist 2.jpg

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Some boat ! I read your entire thread re- your Mirror. I must say, a lot of the terms are new to me. Even the Encarta Dictionary, normally quite helpful, didn't help me, so I realise I'm a lot behind behind the rest of you when it comes to learning about boat building. Nevertheless, I'll set to it.

    It's a shame when wood deteriorates. I left my dinghy under a tarpaulin for years while working on the house. Never realised that the rain was getting in . . . Well done for the work you've achieved.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Mirror 11 aft bottom panel measurements

    Thanks Russell Sounds like we've been in "the same boat" project-wise, but I was fortunate enough to have had a shed I could park mine under while working on the house (not finished yet, by the way). You no doubt have a job-o-work ahead of you, but the learning is a significant part of the fun,...for me, at least The forumites here are a wonderful resource of knowledge, so please post often and post generously so they can advise, commiserate, encourage and laugh with you. Enjoy the ride!

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