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Thread: Bombing Syria then and now

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    All this talk about Syrian chemical factories...

    I thought Obama got rid of those, when he handed the problem over to Putin?

    What happened?
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    Republican bumper stickers:

    "Don't re-nig in 2012"

    "Don't blame me, I voted for the American"

    "Life's a bitch, don't vote for one"
    Kate brown is running.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Putin lied? And Congress would not give a Constitutional approval to take further military steps to compel?
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Kate brown is running.
    You don't say.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    bobbys, you must not pay much attention to what I actually write to fantasize that I think there's authentic love between Putin and Trump. As has been pointed out on this Forum, Putin is playing Trump in the normal way a case handler does an asset. And, were you to do Trump the honor of reading his book, as I have, you would know that his own view of relationships is about the same. It's just that despite his hyperinflated view of himself, Trump is not very good at it.

    By the way, bobbys, I don't think you lie. I think you just don't think things through.
    You are a generous soul. Keep in mind, the two are not mutually exclusive.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    What a pointless exercise.... No doubt, Syria moved their most important assets in advance of the strike... and facilities will be re-built.

    Without a strategy, there is NO point to a military strike.....

    What is the US strategy for Syria? Does anyone know?
    But OF COURSE there's a strategy. Distract, deflect, and count on the rise in ratings of any president 'at war'... so they can get back to the important stuff. Raiding the treasury, and bolstering his own ego.
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    You don't say.
    I did say.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Putin lied? And Congress would not give a Constitutional approval to take further military steps to compel?
    So Obama accepted the promise of a liar, and could not rally a Republican controlled congress to go to war. Then he, and his supporters, claimed victory on the issue.

    So today, the current president has the issue to address, when it's more complicated.

    Kind explains the title of the thread.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    But OF COURSE there's a strategy. Distract, deflect, and count on the rise in ratings of any president 'at war'... so they can get back to the important stuff. Raiding the treasury, and bolstering his own ego.
    Gerarddm has a thread his folks dont approve as does coulter and others., so how does this improve his....war presidency..

    You libs make no sense..
    .

    One can argue both sides of this but he took the political risk.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    The thread distilled down to it's essence:

    Obama bombs Syria for use of nerve gas=good!
    Trump bombs Syria for use of nerve gas=bad!
    Nonsense! This thread is about the hypocrisy of Donald Trump doing a 180° flip-flop and doing exactly the same thing he excoriated the previous administration for doing. It’s about the lack of integrity displayed by this President and this administration, and the way they ignore their very own history and precedent as if it didn’t even exist when it suits them.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    All this talk about Syrian chemical factories...

    I thought Obama got rid of those, when he handed the problem over to Putin?

    What happened?
    Everybody has chemical factories, that’s where you make chemicals. Chlorine is pretty fundamental in any economy. If Cheneys “mobile bio weapons labs” in Iraq were scary enough to sacrifice a few hundred thousand people and a few trillion
    dollars then Syria could be chock full of them, in that one location.

    What happened? You made a silly argument.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Nonsense! This thread is about the hypocrisy of Donald Trump doing a 180° flip-flop and doing exactly the same thing he excoriated the previous administration for doing. It’s about the lack of integrity displayed by this President and this administration, and the way they ignore their very own history and precedent as if it didn’t even exist when it suits them.
    Just saw Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) get confronted by Chuck Todd. Says Chuck, here's you one year ago (roll clip):

    Ernst: I support the President in this policy but going forward, in the future, to do this again, he's going to have to consult Congress.
    So Chuck naturally says, OK, we went forward, he did it again, he didn't consult Congress. What do you say this time? And she said:

    I support the President in this policy but going forward, in the future, to do this again, he's going to have to consult Congress.
    Senator Ernst is the one with the campaign commercial where she said, "I grew up on an Iowa farm and we know how to castrate hogs."
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Everybody has chemical factories, that’s where you make chemicals. Chlorine is pretty fundamental in any economy. If Cheneys “mobile bio weapons labs” in Iraq were scary enough to sacrifice a few hundred thousand people and a few trillion
    dollars then Syria could be chock full of them, in that one location.

    What happened? You made a silly argument.
    You prolly believe iran and NK need nukes for water treatmeant plants and to power merry go rounds.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    The thread distilled down to it's essence:

    Obama bombs Syria for use of nerve gas=good!
    Trump bombs Syria for use of nerve gas=bad!
    You reds went nuts because Obama DIDN'T bomb Syria.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    You reds went nuts because Obama DIDN'T bomb Syria.
    He believed his own lies that there were no chemical weapons there.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Sweet Mother of God reds are stupid.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    "I support the President in this policy but going forward, in the future, to do this again, he's going to have to consult Congress."

    BS! Donald has just made a grab for more power and got away with it. Power once assumed is seldom given up.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Divide and rule. You lot are so busy yelling at each other you dont even look at the bigger picture.

    The three stooges at the UN, France, UK and US, justified their actions on a humanitarian and moral legal obligation. If that were true, why are not bombs raining down on Riyadh for the utter detruction, famine and diesease being subjected on the people of Yemen? Is it not odd that Saudi Arabia is the biggest arms customer of France, UK and US?

    And if it was not already patently clear, in the last 24 hours, Wikileaks published an memo from SA spelling out how THEY want regime change in Syria. SA are the sponsers of Jaif-al-Islam who were in East Ghouta. The West has been the dancing monkey for SA because the West puts money before all else, yet has the audacity to stand up in the United Nations and give speeches about Human Rights and moral obligations. On the wrong side of history already, and no hiding from it, no matter how its spun.

    "Regime change , but do not upset the Russians" leak here

    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...e-with-russia/

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    You reds went nuts because Obama DIDN'T bomb Syria.
    I'm not a Red. Registered Democrat.
    Ratus ratus bilgeous snipeous!

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
    Mahatma Gandhi

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    You prolly believe iran and NK need nukes for water treatmeant plants and to power merry go rounds.
    I believe the things you say mean something to you.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    When we talk about the "red line" we often forget that Obama was ready to go but he wanted Congressional approval before any bombs were dropped. Congress of course was in full obstruction mode and were not going to approve this. In fact it was not even brought up for debate.

    WASHINGTON — President Obama abruptly changed course on Saturday and postponed a military strike against the Syrian government in retaliation for a chemical weapons attack so he could seek authorization first from a deeply skeptical Congress.

    In one of the riskiest gambles of his presidency, Mr. Obama effectively dared lawmakers to either stand by him or, as he put it, allow President Bashar al-Assad of Syria to get away with murdering children with unconventional weapons. By asking them to take a stand, Mr. Obama tried to break out of the isolation of the last week as he confronted taking action without the support of the United Nations, Congress, the public or Britain, a usually reliable partner in such international operations.

    “I’m prepared to give that order,” Mr. Obama said in a hurriedly organized appearance in the Rose Garden as American destroyers armed with Tomahawk missiles waited in the Mediterranean Sea. “But having made my decision as commander in chief based on what I am convinced is our national security interests, I’m also mindful that I’m the president of the world’s oldest constitutional democracy.”

    Although Congressional leaders hailed his decision to seek the permission of lawmakers who had been clamoring for a say, the turnabout leaves Mr. Obama at the political mercy of House Republicans, many of whom have opposed him at every turn and have already suggested that Syria’s civil war does not pose a threat to the United States. His decision raises the possibility that he would be the first president in modern times to lose a vote on the use of force, much as Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain did in Parliament last week
    .
    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/01/w...ast/syria.html
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by John of Phoenix View Post
    Sweet Mother of God reds are stupid.


    and your shtick is old. trying riding a different high horse once in a while.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    It is nice to hear from some of those who have experienced the treachery for years.

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/201...s-trump-nr.cnn

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Not a bad showing...

    https://www.militarytimes.com/pentag...ium=Socialflow

    WASHINGTON ― As American, British and French ordnance rained down on a trio of Syrian regime targets, Russian air defense systems made no attempt to intercept the weapons, the Pentagon said Saturday.The attacks may have set the Syrian chemical weapons programs back for “years,” said Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Kenneth McKenzie, the director of the Joint Staff, while acknowledging that the three sites were not the totality of the Syrian chemical weapons program.


    The strikes involved ordnance from all three of the western allied nations, from both air and naval assets. Overall, 105 weapons were launched by the three nations. The three targeted areas were:



    • The Barzah Research and Development Center, which McKenzie called the “heart” of the chemical weapons program for the Assad regime and is located in “one of the most heavily defended” areas in the world, very close to the capitol of Damascus. This site was targeted by American forces only, with 57 Tomahawk missiles launched by sea and 19 JASSM-ER weapons launched from a pair of B-1 bombers, accompanied by protective fighter coverage. The U.S. assesses this facility was destroyed.
    • The Him Shinshar Chemical Weapons facility, located west of Homs, which was hit by all three nations. The U.S. launched nine Tomahawks, the British launched eight Storm Shadow air-launched weapons from a mix of Tornado and Typhoon fighters, and the French launched three naval cruise missiles and two of their SCALP air launched weapons, which are their Storm Shadow equivalent. The U.S. assesses this facility was destroyed.

    • The Him Shinshar Chemical Weapons bunker, about 7 kilometers from the previous site. This was struck only by the French, with seven SCALP missiles. In both locations, the SCALP weapons were fired by Rafale fighter, accompanied by Mirage fighters for protection. This location took “damage,” per McKenzie.



    Much had been made about the intensity of the air defense systems in Syria, a combination of Syrian and high-end Russian defense systems. Russian news outlets, as well as social media from the region, had claimed as many as 70 percent of coalition weapons were shot down by Syrian or Russian air defenses.

    But the Russian systems did not attempt to intercept the incoming weaponry, and the Syrian system launched around 40 surface to air missiles after the last targeted weapon hit its target, according to McKenzie.


    Overall, the air defense systems were “remarkably ineffective in all domains,” McKenzie said.


    However, McKenzie noted the S-400 systems were not turned off, simply not activated, leaving open the option their radar systems were used to tracking incoming threats but the weapons systems were not fired. That those systems were active but not used could also be a sign that the deconfliction line between the U.S. and Russia, which was used to urge Russia not to escalate the situation, had been effective.



    At this time, the department believes there were no civilian casualties associated with the strikes, which occurred around 4 AM local time.










    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    That’s the problem, it was for show. Chlorine is available anywhere, the relatively small amounts of Sarin probably don’t need a large identifiable facility and like last years missile attack the Russians had forewarning. And like previous military actions the US tends to self censor any intel that undermines the impression that US capabilities are less than stellar.
    Massaging/managing the media by the gov’t didn’t end in 2003.


    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_s...omplished.html

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    The Brit. parliament may be about to change the War Powers Act over their PM authorising a strike in support of Trumps' also executive decision.
    We here to are in the same position, the PM having all the powers to declare war, or just commit Aussies forces without any parliamentary oversight.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Bombing Syria then and now

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    what a putz

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