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Thread: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

  1. #1
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    Default Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Ok, Electric propulsion may not all there yet but this might be a great solution. For someone (like me) who has an older boat but does not want to put a inboard fuel motor in and has no big plans to cruise for weeks it might be the best alternative. At around 5k, it is 1/3 the cost of a new or repower or about 2.5 times a similar outboard of the same power. The pod can be installed in less than a day. The range at half power could be 30 miles or more depending on set up which would take a 7000 lbs boat to hull speed. Weighing in at 15kg plus 4 deep cycle marine batteries - maybe a good choice for folks like us.



    Product description



    • High-efficiency pod motor (fixed position), 5-6 HP equivalent (2.0) or 8-9.9 HP equivalent (4.0)
    • Please note that the Cruise comes with the propeller (1954-00). A folding propeller (1932-00) is available as an accessory.



    Ordering information


    • Equipment included: Remote throttle, integrated on-board computer with GPS-based range calculation, 25 mm≤ cable set (3 m) including fuse and main switch, with weedless propeller 1916-00
    • Warranty: 2 years for non-commercial use

    King Moonraiser:
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    I'm still hoping they come out with a pod that is *just* the pod --no upper fin/shaft like the one pictured-- to encorporate directly into the boat's rudder. A bullet-shaped housing, with a propellor at the aft end and a control cable emerging from... somewhere else. I know it's possible, because they've done them for a couple modern boats. I would seriously consider one of those for my boat, built into a new rudder, especially in a few years when my shoulders decide rowing isn't as much fun as it once was.

    Alex

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    ^ Have you considered dissecting an electric trolling motor and just using the torpedo? I have seen such a project on the Internet.

    Also, you can purchase these, intended for mounting to an outboard's cavitation plate:

    Screen Shot 2018-04-11 at 10.46.39 PM.jpg

    Or these, intended to be mounted to trim tabs:

    Screen Shot 2018-04-11 at 10.51.09 PM.jpg

    Or replacement motors:

    Screen Shot 2018-04-11 at 10.49.22 PM.jpg

    Maybe one of these iterations could be adapted.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    I've glanced at the MinnKotas, but a lot of the appeal of the Torqueedo, for me, is their reputed quality, the caliber of their electronics, and the folding prop you can get as an option --a very nice feature on a sailboat when the motor is fixed-immersed. They seem to be a couple steps above the various trolling motor pods that are available.

    It'll be a while yet before I need one, so maybe by then they'll 1) have the option I want, 2) be a little less <deep breath!> expensive, and 3) have even better batteries. But my thoughts are definitely tending that direction.

    Alex

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    I’m planning on using the Torqeedo in my 16’ catboat. With the LiOn battery it isn’t cheap, but it’s less than and MUCH easier to install than a diesel.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Some electric motors look like good options, but I always get stumped at the power source. What kind of batteries small enough to not sink the boat can tolerate the power draw needed? I see salesmen making claims such as their 80 pounds thrust motor can be run off a 100 A/hr deep cycle lead acid battery... but I can't see the battery lasting very long if abused like that. And once flat how can it be charged when at sea? It would take a lot of solar panels... or a very long time...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    I wouldn't want to rely on that in a boat larger than I could row. If I did, I would want an small suitcase type gen set to charge the batteries in a pinch. You could put the entire thing in a tupperware box. Having an electric outboard and the batteries go flat within a mile or two of the dock is a pita, and maybe dangerous on a larger boat. Half speed for several hours requires a discipline I do not have. My luck is such that I would run the electric motor in a calm most of the day until the batteries are weak and then the tide will shift carrying me right back out across the bay... some places that I sail have 2-3 knot tidal currents. Will half speed carry you through a 6 hour tidal swing?

    edit; 20 years ago I would have not worried a bit about it, so what if I don't get back on this tide?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    My Torqeedo 1003 outboard would push my 4000# 26’ Knickerbocker at 4.5 knots flat out. 3.5 knots at 1/2 throttle. 530WH battery would drive the boat for @ 3.5 miles flat out and 12 miles at 1/2 throttle.
    The 2.0 pod drive with the LiOn battery has 2685WH capacity. It produces @ twice the power of the outboard. It should push a 16’ 1200# catboat against a 2 knot tide for at least 6 miles.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Sounds like plenty of power for my 3000# sloop, though I doubt she'd go as well as a Knickerbocker. I wouldn't be trying to make miles against a hard tide, just to tuck in somewhere with anchoring depth to wait out a calm spell.

    The batteries --size, weight, capacity-- are the big variable, but the way technology is developing, the longer I wait, the better the options look.

    Charging the batteries would be yet another piece to the logistical puzzle, but it isn't as though all the joy would go out of life if I ran them down before the end of a cruise, I'd just be back to the engineless state where I began.

    It's definitely an option I'm keeping my eye on.

    Alex

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    This wind powered generator could also fit in to the big picture here....
    https://www.marlec.co.uk/product/12v...v=7516fd43adaa

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    It can get complicated but a regeneration system with solar and folding prop would make it cruiser ready...

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Getting back to simple and cheap, maybe, (or maybe complicated and expensive) couldn't you cannibalise a dead outboard? Take the lower leg, gearbox and prop, plug whatever holes you dont need, like cooling water and exhaust, with an adaptor plate, and bolt it to your hull, with just the drive shaft sticking up, to which you can attach the electric motor of your choice, along with a control system, batteries and whatever on board charging systems you fancy.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Is the Torqueedo mount designed to fit a daggerboard slot?
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    couldn't you cannibalise a dead outboard? Take the lower leg, gearbox and prop, plug whatever holes you dont need, like cooling water and exhaust, with an adaptor plate, and bolt it to your hull, with just the drive shaft sticking up, to which you can attach the electric motor of your choice, along with a control system, batteries and whatever on board charging systems you fancy.
    Some friends of mine and I were talking about that exact idea just yesterday. It has been done, they've seen it, but they didn't have any sense of the success.

    Would the propellor designs be compatible? I know exactly zilch about what differences might exist between internal-combustion outboard motor props and electric outboard motor props --so maybe it's a non-issue?

    Is the Torqueedo mount designed to fit a daggerboard slot?
    Depends on the daggerboard slot, I suspect. I assume you're talking about permanently mounted, since it'd be a bit of a squeeze to get the motor unit down through the slot?

    Alex

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    couldn't you cannibalise a dead outboard? Take the lower leg, gearbox and prop, plug whatever holes you dont need, like cooling water and exhaust, with an adaptor plate, and bolt it to your hull, with just the drive shaft sticking up, to which you can attach the electric motor of your choice, along with a control system, batteries and whatever on board charging systems you fancy.
    Glen-L sells plans for just that:http://www.boatdesigns.com/Electric-...info/61%2D405/




    Propelling a boat with an electric motor is hardly new. In the late 1800's electric powered boats, some as large as 60', were used to hold grand parties on the Thames River in England.
    Electric boating was popularized in the United States when the Electric Launch Co. of New Jersey, or ELCO, built fifty-five 36' forty passenger electric launches for the 1893 Chicago Columbia Exposition. The boats used a 4 hp electric motor driven by three banks of twenty- two batteries each. When the banks were depleted, a switch was made to a fresh bank allowing the launches to travel more than fifty miles. In five and one half months, the electric boats carried more than one million people over 200,000 miles.
    Electric powered boats were very popular until about 1910 when the power to weight ratio gave the internal combustion engine the edge. There has, however, been a resurgence of electric powered boats the past few years and the momentum appears to be gaining.
    Electric powered boats have definite advantages. They are environmentally friendly, and very quiet; they run with only a whisper of sound. Many waterways, especially small lakes, bar internal combustion motors because of the noise. Electric boats seem to become a part of the environment; wildlife are usually unafraid of these ghost craft.
    The Glen-L ELECTRIC DRIVE, or "ED", is a propulsion system that can be retrofitted or built into most boats and was developed to make full use of electric power. The drive utilizes a portion of the lower unit of a used outboard motor with other readily available components, assembled on a plywood mount. The lower unit of the drive projects through the bottom of the boat and pivots for steering; a rudder is not required. The DC electric motor is attached to the mount and drives the prop shaft with vee belts.
    ED is best suited for boats of about 20' or less, and can be fitted to most any craft with modifications. The lower unit of the outboard motor can be obtained from local outboard dealers, who ordinarily have motors with unusable power heads. The lower unit from almost any horsepower motor can be used. Our prototype was one salvaged from a 35 hp Evinrude. The size, make, and age is unimportant as long as parts are still readily available. Hopefully, the main components of the lower unit are in good shape, however, seals, gaskets etc. will need to be replaced. An outboard lower unit that uses a 10"-12" diameter prop is satisfactory for most boats. Small lightweight canoes, pirogues, or similar craft that will go through the water with minimal resistance can use smaller prop diameters. Conversely, larger, heavier boats will be more efficient with larger diameter props.
    ED comes with complete plans and instructions with patterns for many of the components.
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Making it swivel adds a whole level of complication. I'm thinking just a plate, a gasket and a couple of bolts to attach it. And a rudder for steering. But thanks, interesting material.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Is the Torqueedo mount designed to fit a daggerboard slot?
    No. It's designed to be permanently mounted under the boat. The black part on top is a spacer that you are suposed to cut up in two according to the boats bottom contour. One part goes under the boat, the other inside as a backing plate, everything with sealant, then you tighten the two screws.

    As much as I love electric it remains a specialized application for now. Lakes, canals, getting in and out of a slip, maneuvering, all at low speeds. Extended motoring at hull speed, powering for longer against wind and tide requires a big battery bank, preferably lithium. And the system must be tuned to the boat and use pattern. The technology exists but the costs are high for a really good system, higher than outboard or diesel power.
    The Torqueedo pod is good, but one must not buy into their marketing BS. Electric horses are not bigger, there is no "equivalence" to higher power IC motors. Watts in minus efficiency is watts out, then it's up to how good the prop puts that into the water. In practice this means 1000W in = aprox. 1HP out. The 2.0 is therefore equivalent to a 2hp motor and the 4.0 to a 4hp motor. The only electric benefit is the reverse and really slow speed maneuvering will be much better than with most outboards of the same power.
    Range depends on the battey fitted. Best bang for the buck right now are batterys from wrecked electric cars, but that is a DIY option (or paying someone who knows about them).
    Regeneration under sail works, but not at the levels to meaningfully extend motoring time, and only if you can keep the boat in a pretty narrow speed range. Solar works but it takes a dedicated multihull to take advantage of that, or flexible cells mounted on the sails.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    No. It's designed to be permanently mounted under the boat. The black part on top is a spacer that you are suposed to cut up in two according to the boats bottom contour. One part goes under the boat, the other inside as a backing plate, everything with sealant, then you tighten the two screws.

    As much as I love electric it remains a specialized application for now. Lakes, canals, getting in and out of a slip, maneuvering, all at low speeds. Extended motoring at hull speed, powering for longer against wind and tide requires a big battery bank, preferably lithium. And the system must be tuned to the boat and use pattern. The technology exists but the costs are high for a really good system, higher than outboard or diesel power.
    The Torqueedo pod is good, but one must not buy into their marketing BS. Electric horses are not bigger, there is no "equivalence" to higher power IC motors. Watts in minus efficiency is watts out, then it's up to how good the prop puts that into the water. In practice this means 1000W in = aprox. 1HP out. The 2.0 is therefore equivalent to a 2hp motor and the 4.0 to a 4hp motor. The only electric benefit is the reverse and really slow speed maneuvering will be much better than with most outboards of the same power.
    Range depends on the battey fitted. Best bang for the buck right now are batterys from wrecked electric cars, but that is a DIY option (or paying someone who knows about them).
    Regeneration under sail works, but not at the levels to meaningfully extend motoring time, and only if you can keep the boat in a pretty narrow speed range. Solar works but it takes a dedicated multihull to take advantage of that, or flexible cells mounted on the sails.
    For most racers, day sailers and weekend sailing yachts - the direction of this electric pod makes sense. The calculations of what if we went cruising crowd is limited already. Most people sail all day and tie up at night. Some anchor but not many. Moreover a small Honda generator could be run for a few hours to top off a battery.

    If someone was crossing the ocean, the pod charged the battery pack too. 20 liters of fuel, a small outboard for the dinghy (and secondary propulsion) and a honda generator would've all part of the entire cruising package.
    King Moonraiser:
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    The biggest problem with going electric are the sailors expectations. As long as one understands the limits of this option it's fine. There are electric powered boats out there right now doing it. The market offers pods, saildrives, shaftdrives and outboards at different power levels and with different technologies as ready to go, kits, right down to the individual components for DIY. There even is a brand new production yacht fitted with a rudder integrated pod drive. The first sail circumnavigation with electric auxiliary was in the early '90s. But it's not like buying a new outboard or repowering with a diesel. And for what it can do it's not cheap, at least when going new tech.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I wouldn't want to rely on that in a boat larger than I could row. If I did, I would want an small suitcase type gen set to charge the batteries in a pinch. You could put the entire thing in a tupperware box. Having an electric outboard and the batteries go flat within a mile or two of the dock is a pita, and maybe dangerous on a larger boat. Half speed for several hours requires a discipline I do not have. My luck is such that I would run the electric motor in a calm most of the day until the batteries are weak and then the tide will shift carrying me right back out across the bay... some places that I sail have 2-3 knot tidal currents. Will half speed carry you through a 6 hour tidal swing?

    edit; 20 years ago I would have not worried a bit about it, so what if I don't get back on this tide?
    I like the option you've used Jake.
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    These two seem to have figured out how to go electric.


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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    For most racers, day sailers and weekend sailing yachts - the direction of this electric pod makes sense. The calculations of what if we went cruising crowd is limited already. Most people sail all day and tie up at night. Some anchor but not many. Moreover a small Honda generator could be run for a few hours to top off a battery.

    If someone was crossing the ocean, the pod charged the battery pack too. 20 liters of fuel, a small outboard for the dinghy (and secondary propulsion) and a honda generator would've all part of the entire cruising package.
    If one has to resort to a petrol generator to charge batteries, the electric motor essentially becomes an exceedingly inefficient petrol powered motor.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    If one has to resort to a petrol generator to charge batteries, the electric motor essentially becomes an exceedingly inefficient petrol powered motor.
    The other thought is a secondary or more redundant charging system is exactly right. An effect petrol generator is always a nice thing to bring on a cruise. In fact most cruisers I know actually have this. When off the hook for a week at a time, charging batteries, ability to get power on demand and adding to a higher quality of life aboard - many go with a Honda generator.

    very few of us will ever be away from a dock more than 3 days. 1 gallon or 4 liters of low grade petrol from a portable generator can charge the batteries twice. This means one could extend thier off the hook time by weeks if properly planned and a 20 liter can. Morover that is far less weight than 4 more batteries plus a almost adequate solar hook up.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 04-15-2018 at 03:35 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    I rather like the idea of a batteryless solar propulsion system.
    Just run during daylight hours when there's sun.
    Simply a restriction.
    Think of the weight and cost savings!

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Torqueedo Pod drives looks like an interesting proposal

    I like that idea too, but not sure it is doable with current technology (good pun huh...). Think of how big an 80 watt panel is. How many can fit on small cruising boat. Now how many watts does the smallest electric motor need? It isn't going to happen. No, until the charging tech gets better, the only viable and green alternative are galley slaves and lots of sweeps.

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