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Thread: Bandsaw question

  1. #1
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    Default Bandsaw question

    Not in the workshop now so can't give exact details, but I have bandsaw with about a 2.1 metre, 88 -90" band, two wheels about a guess 15" 450 mm dia, basically a halfway between hobby and trade use. no idea of the make, bought used, can't find a plate or maker's mark .( Maker's Mark... thats a good idea I'll be back in a mo.) There. where was I.

    Oh yeah. Doesn't get used an awful lot, but once set up, usually no problems. only ever change the band for a different one, according to materials or it's blunt.

    Today a band just broke. never had that before. put on a new one and spent an hour trying to get it to run true. normally takes about two minutes. taken it to bits to check bearings, aok, shaft alignment aok , but the tensioner and top wheel angle adjuster just can't be combined right. the symptom is the blade runs back off the top wheel fouling the case and even with all the adjusters on the band guide roller bearings thing backed right off, its fouling there too. Whats odd is that it happened after a dramatic break rather than just a routine blade change.
    Having done a bit of research and gone through the Duginske 'Bandsaw Handbook' I think it must be the rubber tyres, but they don't look too bad. Main question is, Is it possible to dress the rubbers...? They are a bit scored but have at least 3 -4 mm thickness.

    .Can't see any suppliers of new ones here, even UK's Axminster who have always come up trumps ( can I say that these days ??) don't stock them. Who sells the tyres without a fixed ref. make or model? and I'm loathe to pry an old one off, maybe wrecking it, if I can't get a new one. Can I buy a bigger tyre and cut it down ? methinks no , but any ideas?

    Or am I missing something.....
    Last edited by jonboy; 04-10-2018 at 01:42 PM.
    'C'est la vie' say the old folks it goes to show you never can tell

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Pictures would help. Is the upper wheel wobbling on the bearing? If the bearing is shot, all the adjustment in the world won't bring it in to true. I'd also lay a long straightedge along the centers of the wheels (may need to remove the table) to see if they're suitably co-planar. I wouldn't suspect the tyres unless they look visually torn up.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Always hard to diagnose long-distance, with only word-pictures to go by.

    So I won't try. Instead I'll simply suggest you look up one of the many 'How to tune your bandsaw' articles available online... follow the directions assiduously... and see what you find. The article should tell you what to look for at each step in the process, and how to diagnose any problems.

    Hugh has pointed out one of the steps - the upper and lower wheels need to be 'coplanar'. But that only one of the things that could be wrong.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    My 14 inch delta is living proof they do not need to be coplanar. The guy on the Carter video is adamant about this. Says teeth in the center of the upper wheel. Mine are and forward on the lower wheel. No reason for it to be suddenly tires unless their adhesive has failed. Id back everything off, mount blade, tension then tweak tracking as a start. Only spinning by hand. I love/hate my bandsaw. Right now I love it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    I thought I said.....nothing apparently out of alignment, all bearings smmoooth as silk but I haven't taken the table off to straight- edge check the two wheel faces , but also nothing more dramatic than a blade break has caused this.... its not as though the blade jammed and wrenched a whole lot of stuff out of line or it fell down a flight of stairs...
    I've Youtubed and Duginskied all the standard stuff.... It has to be either a duff new blade, maybe welded out of true, but that would make weird noises..wouldn't it ...

    It runs fine, with the new blade , no bearing whirr, nada except it is rubbing the back casing and I can't do anything to bring the band to the front a bit. Gotta be tyres, but why all of a sudden ...

    thanx for the input....in the morning I'm going to put another different band on, maybe even one of the older used ones ...

    But back to the question of how to re-dress the old mildly-worn/scored tyres..

    letcha know amanha
    'C'est la vie' say the old folks it goes to show you never can tell

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Tilt mechanism. or what I called 'top wheel angle adjuster' or somesuch, is fine, free, clean, I'm thinking, as I said it's the profile of the 'crown ' of the top wheel tyre profile. please read a few posts before .... can that be sorted, filed , sanded, re-profiled .....
    'C'est la vie' say the old folks it goes to show you never can tell

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
    'C'est la vie' say the old folks it goes to show you never can tell

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Don’t know from your last post if you’ve heard enough but. My tires are red urethane. I put them on with weld wood contact cement. Adhesive gave way allowing centrifugal force to actually lift the tire from the wheel throwing the blade off. So before you trash the tyres, check for adhesion. I don’t think home use bandsaws require crowning of tyres.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Quote Originally Posted by Boater14 View Post
    My 14 inch delta is living proof they do not need to be coplanar. The guy on the Carter video is adamant about this. Says teeth in the center of the upper wheel. Mine are and forward on the lower wheel. No reason for it to be suddenly tires unless their adhesive has failed. I’d back everything off, mount blade, tension then tweak tracking as a start. Only spinning by hand. I love/hate my bandsaw. Right now I love it.
    Yes, I can see how they could be parallel and slightly off of coplanar. Something tells me my machinist friends wouldn't like it?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    It all started with a broken blade and a new replacement,now it doesn't work?Put on an old blade,one you know ran true. At least you'll prove it's the saw or a bad new blade.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    I thought I said.....nothing apparently out of alignment, all bearings smmoooth as silk but I haven't taken the table off to straight- edge check the two wheel faces , but also nothing more dramatic than a blade break has caused this.... its not as though the blade jammed and wrenched a whole lot of stuff out of line or it fell down a flight of stairs...
    I've Youtubed and Duginskied all the standard stuff.... It has to be either a duff new blade, maybe welded out of true, but that would make weird noises..wouldn't it ...

    It runs fine, with the new blade , no bearing whirr, nada except it is rubbing the back casing and I can't do anything to bring the band to the front a bit. Gotta be tyres, but why all of a sudden ...

    thanx for the input....in the morning I'm going to put another different band on, maybe even one of the older used ones ...

    But back to the question of how to re-dress the old mildly-worn/scored tyres..

    letcha know amanha
    Possibly an angle grinder with a 120 grit sandpaper disc. Hold it so the angle is constant, just in contact while someone turns the wheel. You dont need much crown. But read on---
    If the crown on the tyres is worn away you'll have tracking problems. I work on other peoples bandsaws a lot, and this is a reasonably common thing. I have an outfit that supplies conveyor belting and materials handling equipment, they do my commercial customers tyres for me. 60 shore rubber, ( thats a measure of hardness/compressibility for "rubber" ) and bonded on, not just slipped on and held by "thoughts and prayers" ( ineffective at best) . The bonding is a two stage thing, metal primer and a rubber adhesive that adheres to the metal primer.
    I've never had to replace any that have been done that way, and I've been doing this for a while.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Yes, I can see how they could be parallel and slightly off of coplanar. Something tells me my machinist friends wouldn't like it?
    They only need to be close to work pretty well.

    However, if you want the saw to cut square to the fore and aft plane of the table it can sometimes take (quite) a bit more fussing, including shimming the table trunnion base.
    This doesn't come up often but if you are making bridle joints in door styles, or wide tenons for example, it will be important.
    Most people don't pay much attention to dead square in that plane...
    I use the saw much like a milling machine, and it is fussed until it cuts square in both planes. Which means you need contact on the rear guide rollers top and bottom, very light contact but yes. (I used to have a "big" DoAll vertical saw that had a hydraulic table with T-slots and it was set-up to be accurate in both planes. I know a workman should never blame his tools, but a thing like that will spoil you for life).

    As far as the blade coming off the upper wheel, something is very wrong if you can't dial the tilt of the upper wheel to compensate. Could be that the bearing on the lower driving wheel is failing/failed. I would start right there with a dial indicator. Rubber tires can be recrowned ( carefully) with a sharp file.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    I used to re-crown the tyres on our old 36" bandsaw fairly regularly, with a piece of sandpaper glued to a length of batten with the saw running and the covers open. This also removed sawdust, resin etc stuck to the tyres. The saw got a lot of heavy use on timbers like Iroko.

    But I guess that's not a recommended method

    Cheers -- George
    To be truly free to live, one must be free to think and speak.

    A C Grayling

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    The Alex Snodgrass video convinced me. Guy worked for carter so I don’t see coplanarity being an issue affecting their product line. But it’s a cause for endless conversation. Like what if Jackson had been at Getteysburg. I’d watch that YouTube video on set up. He also debunks adjusting the fence for tracking. I’m still working on that one.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Sorted ! ...Thanks for the input everypeeps.

    For future reference... Checked everything again regards bearings, run out, coplanar or not, (they were) and then redressed both wheel's tyres with a palm sander in one hand and a cordless drill with a flap wheel in the other to drive the top wheel off the machine, the shaft clamped to the bench. The bottom tyre being driven by the motor, I just dressed it with the sander. The tyres were flat , not with a crown, but quite scored and with a few nicks. I kept them flat but ever-so-slightly bevelled the edges.

    But this is interesting.. I laid out flat the broken band, supposed to be 82.5" 2096 mm and I found it was a good ten mm short. went to look to see if it had lost a cm when it broke and offered up the two ends to a perfect match. So it never was exactly 82.5 ", and the new blade that kept running off was sufficiently longer to be beyond the range of the tilt adjuster screw. Slackened off the whole top axle assembly, shoved it up a bit to get the adjustment back into range,and put the new blade on, tried also with two or three other new and old ones lying around.....Hey Presto ! perfect.

    Thanx again . Hope this helps others.
    'C'est la vie' say the old folks it goes to show you never can tell

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    WOW! I'd have gone through the same Hell before finding a blade that was too bloody short. Can you take it back, or was it an old one?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    No in short, bought mail order from a foreign country too long ago.... but as I said I bought the machine used and no blade, and messed about with bits of string and tape measures to figure out the size to order. when I bought the band that broke I bought three or four at the same time identical and three or four others...a big tooth ripper a metal cutter a super fine 14 tpi... in all the changes I'd made so far the band was either identical or if it was a diferent profile it was the same.

    One point is that the new blade I tried to mount, causing this whole thread, was bigger than the one that broke. Was it bigger than it should be or was the one that broke shorter than it should be. Fact is because I had the broken one to lay out flat and measure accurately I go for it was smaller than it should have been but it fitted, by there being enough play in the tensioner to cope.

    The 'new' replacement that I couldn't get to track for reasons above , although bought at the same time and from the same supplier is bigger by a cm, less than half inch, was out of the normal screw adjuster range, but as the whole top axle and screw adjuster cradle is independently moveable due to the way it is mounted to the main saw chassis, I could compensate , in the end.

    Its hard to measure a band when it's in the round, and as the difference was 'only' (?) about 8-10 mm maybe that's within manufacturer's tolerance.

    So all's well that ends well
    'C'est la vie' say the old folks it goes to show you never can tell

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Hi !
    How about putting on your own rubber on Band saw??
    If you search EYP for rubber suppliers and merchants in your area, you should find sources for strip and sheet rubber. 3-5mm thick and a good hard rubber should be fine. Tell then what you want it for as they usually have knowlegable people in these places. They should stock the correct adhesives too athough proper evo stick (not this water based stuff) should do the job.
    Clean the wheels to get a smooth, clean dust free surface. Stick on the rubber, trim the end to a butt joint. When dry, the wheels can be slightly crowned to assist blade tracking.
    Last edited by JonWalter; 04-30-2018 at 03:24 AM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Bandsaw question

    Thanks and welcome JW ... for now the problem is solved, but I'll remember this for the future

    Incidentally all, I joined the broken blade with silver solder and a hand propane torch according to various vids on youtube ...seems to have worked perfectly
    'C'est la vie' say the old folks it goes to show you never can tell

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