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Thread: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

  1. #1
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    Default Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I need to tilt my Caledonia Yawl back quite a bit to get bilgewater to the Whale pump and floorboard access hatch near the rear thwart, but the existing jack only extends 10" to take the top of the tongue to 24" about the ground which ain't enough. The top of the tongue is level at 17" from the ground and no way to mount a swing-up jack any lower than that. And yes it needs to be both rolling and swing-away.

    Almost everything I can find online only has a 10-12" expansion, with a few rated for 14" expansion.

    I need an extra-tall jack with 16-24" of expansion. It would be nice to have it be a marine model rated for saltwater, but at this stage I'll take what I can get. Anyone know of something that might work?

    Need more than 24"!
    IMG_7856.jpg
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-09-2018 at 10:43 PM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I've looked at etrailer.com and Hamilton, but all their models seem to max out at 14-16". At least they give the expansion measurements, as many resellers like Amazon don't provide that critical info.

    I have this model on my dory skiff trailer, and despite the coating and cost, it has rusted quite a bit - https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/prod...way-33091.html

    Tractorsupply.com has a huge listing of jacks, but nothing other than the farm jacks that 4x4 folks use seems to have the required throw / extension. Reesebrands.com offers NO specs on their products -- boo!

    Strangely enough Harbor Freight may have a decent selection. This drop leg jack claims 28" of lift, and I can probably rig up a wheel instead of the flat foot plate, but it isn't swing away -- and I'm not a welder of any sort! https://www.harborfreight.com/3500-l...jack-3961.html

    A real kludge of a fix would be to run two jacks bolted to each other across the tongue. The first one could be used to lift the tongue up to 24", and the second one would have the tube extended (somehow) and be able to swing down at that point and get another 10" or so of lift. Wouldn't want to roll it over rough ground with the extended one, but it would provide the necessary angle to be able to pump and sponge out the bilge after a cleaning or wet sail.
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-09-2018 at 10:40 PM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Can't you just lift it and put a block or post under it? CY's aren't that heavy are they?

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I may be misunderstanding the problem entirely, but I'll bite.

    Check out the RV catalogs. (Camping World is a good one.) They have lots of products that address your problem, most designed for "leveling" motorhomes and trailers that don't have integral hydraulic jacks.

    This is my suggestion. The RV outfits sell stacking lightweight plastic "blocks" made of probably poly-something-or-other. (Recycled soda bottles?) What you do is to put the blocks beneath your tongue jack with the jack all the way up. Then you release the hitch with your jack on the blocks and then run your jack down on top of the blocks, gaining as much height as there is between the bottom of your jack wheel and the ground with the jack all the way up. The RV places also sell scissor jacks for the same purpose. Put the scissor jack on top of the blocks and under the tongue and then jack it up to the furthest extension.

    24" lift scissor jacks: https://www.etrailer.com/Camper-Jack...48-979002.html



    Walmart's got jack pad blocks, although there are different styles of which these are just one.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valterra-...3256e863794058



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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    To answer the question -- the boat is probably 500-550lbs with a total weight in the 800's, and sits forward enough on the trailer to make manually lifting the tongue quite difficult and hard on the back.

    There isn't enough clearance to stack blocks on the ground, swing the trailer jack down and then balance the wheel on the blocks -- I can only gain about 3" that way at best, which ain't enough. In other words the length of the rolling jack completely shortened only allows 2.5" of extension before it hits the ground when attached to the tow vehicle, and I lose some height due to needing a cupped top in the block to keep the wheel in place. I'll be climbing around in the boat to get it clean and dry, and can't have some iffy setup under the trailer tongue.

    Yes, I could use a farm jack, scissors jack, bottle jack, or whathaveyou to gain more height, but have to deal with stability issues with anything not attached to the trailer. I'd much prefer to die sailing than be squashed in the driveway or at the ramp...

    Seriously, I may not be the sharpest tool on the bench, but I can figure out simple solutions fairly well. In this case what I'm looking for is a tall rolling swingaway jack. Failing that I'll try the double-jack system mentioned above, with the tube extended on one jack by welding or bolts.

    I'm thinking that the easiest way to do the double-jack setup is to get two identical rolling jacks (so the bolt patterns on the mounting plates match) and mount them opposite each other on the tongue. Cut the bottom off #2 just above the wheel and bolt on an inner sleeve of heavy galvanized pipe, with the pipe cut to just the right length to be able to swing down with the #1 jack fully extended. Since this is to be used for pumping water out after sailing or cleaning, #2 wouldn't even have to be rolling, so could just have a plate on the bottom like the stock non-rolling jacks.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-10-2018 at 06:06 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I have a CY, totally open, so it weighs a bit less than yours. My two thoughts:
    I can lift my tongue at the hitch by myself. I am not “the Rock”! Check the position of the boat on trailer. The aft edge of the center thwart is close to center and should set over the axle. A few inches makes a difference. Move your winch post as necessary. You should be able to lift and set tongue on something. Be careful, the boat is very tippy going forward when on the trailer. I always wait to step the mast when in the water.
    Another solution would be to install a forward drain plug for cleaning up. I have one just aft of the mast step.
    I hope you enjoy your yawl.
    p.s. Ditch all that tiller arm business. Push pull works just fine!

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I am still not comprehending the problem because we had a similar problem when we used our two horse trailer for other projects where being able to tilt the rear down mattered.

    I'd just wind down the fixed jack till it lifted the hitch from the ball and then as much further (<3") it would lift the tongue. After driving the truck out of the way, I'd block up under the tongue, lower the jack till the tongue rested on the blocking, and then wind the jack as far as apossible. Then I'd block under the jack and wind it full length again. Then more blocking under the tongue. And so on till I met my tilt goal.

    Because the jack and the tongue were pretty close, my ground tier of balks was a pair running fore and aft long enough to get under both spots and spaced to let the jack work. From there up, balks were added in a pattern like open cribbing for stability. Sometimes I accelerated things by putting a first pad under the fully retracted jack, which would give me another 2" that step.

    It never dawned on me to solve the problem by spending money on a longer travel jack or on a second jack.

    G'luck

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I'd drill a hole in the bottom for a cork or drain plug/

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    What Thad said. If you can not lift the front end of the trailer, just how much tongue weight do you have on the hitch? I have a dodgy back myself, but if the better halfs not looking, i can usually lift the tongue to get an 18in block under it. Are your wheels right at the back end or something?

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I have a large trailer (22' double axle flatbed) that I often have to tilt further than the jack will go & there ain't no way I can pick it up. I basically do what Ian suggested: jack it to the max, put blocks under the tongue (I go back a bit for stability), then lower the jack (raise the wheel) until I can get a block under that, raise the jack, lather, rinse repeat.

    If doing this make sure you have tight chocks forward & aft of the wheels on both sides! The wheel on the jack will allow the trailer to move sideways surprisingly easily. DAMHIKT.

    BTW - the easiest way is to use the bucket on your tractor to lift up the tongue. Oddly enough, doing that requires a tractor with a bucket... Well, you can use the 3 point hitch too, but that still requires a tractor.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    You could start with a hydraulic camper jack it might be too tall out of the box,but the bottom end of it could be easily modified to work at whatever operating length you need.
    https://tweetys.com/rieco-titan-rhy2...tic-white.aspx

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I've got a great set of rubber wheel chocks that will travel with the boat, so no worries there. Not fond of the putting it up on blocks plan, as I want to be able to pump water out of the boat at any location it may be trailered to -- and would rather not haul a stack of blocks around with me. Plus unless I build an attached set of blocks with a wheel cup, it won't be stable enough to suit me.

    Yes, I'll probably be able to find a slanted section of road where it is OK to pump the water out of the bilge -- but I'd rather not rely on being able to find that section of road when traveling around the Left Coast. I'd much prefer to be able to pump the bilge dry wherever the boat may be parked on the trailer.

    As for the tongue weight, I prefer it quite heavy for stability when towing, and for walking around in the boat aft when not hitched to the tow vehicle. If I must I'll try setting the boat a bit further aft on the trailer, but I really don't need the extra length on the overall rig.

    And about the expense -- HF sells jacks for $30, and the one on the trailer is another inexpensive, non-marine jack so it will match quality-wise. A section of galvanized pipe cut to length and a bolt to extend the throw of this second jack won't break the bank either. But I'll consider other options since it appears that nobody knows of a long-throw jack that would work.
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I'm with Thad on this one.
    "It's a pirate's life for me. Savvy??"

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Quote Originally Posted by rbgarr View Post
    I'm with Thad on this one.
    While I've always been a proponent of forward drain plugs in smaller boats (since the boat on the trailer can be lowered at the front), I'm unsure if I want to drill another hole in the bottom of this boat. If I did that would solve most of the issues, but I'd also have to make a larger access hatch / removable floorboard section in the bow. Currently there is just a small opening for the main mast step and downhaul block attached to the step.

    Currently the boat has a 1-board removable floorboard section on either side of the CB case, and a center 3-board removable section at the rear thwart where the Whale pump is mounted on a frame. I'm assuming that in the water with all the crew aft the pump will draw well, but can't confirm that until I splash the boat.

    Screen Shot 2018-04-10 at 9.23.09 AM.jpg
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-10-2018 at 11:25 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    How much water are you talking about needing to pump? It's a Mohammed to the mountain solution, but would it be that big of a hassle to carry a second hand-held plunger-type dinghy bilge pump to get the water forward out of the boat? From my experience, the weight of water in a boat on a trailer can be considerable, so don't feel inadequate because lifting the tongue is difficult, even with a small boat, when full of water. Pumping it out with a hand-held pump may be a pain, but it's a lot less complicated and labor-intensive solution than lifting the tongue if all you have to move is a few gallons.


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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Or, since the boat will be on the trailer--and therefore near to a tow vehicle--use an electric pump.

    Also, any way to mount a cross-brace aft of the trailer tongue and in front of the boat stem to which you could mount a jack? At such a location, a standard jack might give you the throw you seek, though you'd probably have to kneel and scrunch to operate it.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Or, since the boat will be on the trailer--and therefore near to a tow vehicle--use an electric pump.

    Also, any way to mount a cross-brace aft of the trailer tongue and in front of the boat stem to which you could mount a jack? At such a location, a standard jack might give you the throw you seek, though you'd probably have to kneel and scrunch to operate it.

    Kevin
    You could make an extension handle for this setup even adding a universal joint if needed, one from a quality tool co. 1/2" socket set would do the trick.

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    How much water are you talking about needing to pump? It's a Mohammed to the mountain solution, but would it be that big of a hassle to carry a second hand-held plunger-type dinghy bilge pump to get the water forward out of the boat? From my experience, the weight of water in a boat on a trailer can be considerable, so don't feel inadequate because lifting the tongue is difficult, even with a small boat, when full of water. Pumping it out with a hand-held pump may be a pain, but it's a lot less complicated and labor-intensive solution than lifting the tongue if all you have to move is a few gallons.
    I have a lovely brass pump with a wood handle that gets far too much use on my dory skiff, but was hoping to be able to use the installed Whale pump which has (ooh!) its own through-hull output. But I might enlarge the current finger-holes to take the base of either my pump or a plastic dinghy pump, as that's so much easier to do than pulling up floorboard sections -- particularly when under way /sailing. Even though I'm used to having to handle a free-standing pump, the big Whale pump will be much nicer to use for the amount of water the bilges will collect during a large cleanout.
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Several wheeled swing back trailer jacks (1000lb/1500lb/2000lb) at harbor freight exceed 24" max height according to the specs . . . . I just bought a 1000lb swing away tongue jack from them a few days ago and was very very pleased with the quality and the price was very low.
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Something isn't adding up or I misunderstood the requirements. Is it range that is the problem? HF has 1500 lb. Capacity Dual Wheel Swing-Back Boat Trailer Jack with Maximum Lift Height (in.) 26-7/8 in. Minimum height (in.) 14-1/2 in.

    If I was faced with this problem, I would wind it up as far as it will go, put a jack stand under the trailer, wind the wheel all the way up, put a block under the wheel and wind the trailer up some more. Since you don't want it to roll off the block, you will have to build a box with a saddle on top for the wheel to keep it from rolling. You could always raise the jack stand for a secondary support on the trailer. The jack stand linked has a min/max height of 14 1/2 and 23 3/4".
    Capture.JPG
    The cheap solution requiring an expensive custom mount would be a $15 scaffold jack.

    A simple, but effective $100 transmission jack has a range of 7- 23 inches, but it weighs around 40 lb.
    Last edited by MN Dave; 04-11-2018 at 10:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I would add another jack on the other side of the tongue, a top wind screw jack with telescoping extensions and a foot (no wheel) will lift pretty high. Just crank it up when you dont need it. https://www.easternmarine.com/fulton...eg-hd2500-0101

    Although my yawl is too heavy for a wheel, the trailer has two jacks so I can raise it to "her lines" while it is in the barn. probably 30 inches from towing position.

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Mount a pivoting wheel on long arm and jack that down with a parallelogram car jack. You could arrange almost any lift you needed.
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    I need to tilt my Caledonia Yawl back quite a bit to get bilgewater to the Whale pump and floorboard access hatch near the rear thwart, but the existing jack only extends 10" to take the top of the tongue to 24" about the ground which ain't enough. The top of the tongue is level at 17" from the ground and no way to mount a swing-up jack any lower than that. And yes it needs to be both rolling and swing-away.

    Almost everything I can find online only has a 10-12" expansion, with a few rated for 14" expansion.




    I need an extra-tall jack with 16-24" of expansion. It would be nice to have it be a marine model rated for saltwater, but at this stage I'll take what I can get. Anyone know of something that might work?

    Need more than 24"!
    IMG_7856.jpg

    I know that the advancing years contribute to one loosing the plot.

    Am I reading that the boat is on a trailer with water in it that requires moving so it can be pumped out?

    I'm afraid that Photo conveys nothing to me Thorne.
    Last edited by Chippie; 04-11-2018 at 03:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    A double ender? Just put the boat on the trailer backwards so lowering the tongue gets the water out.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    A double ender? Just put the boat on the trailer backwards so lowering the tongue gets the water out.
    Or perhaps park on some nearby incline, if we are correct Dave?

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Jake -

    Exactly my idea, just need to find one that has the same bolt pattern on the attachment plate so I can bolt them to each other across the trailer tongue. I'll add a heavy galvanized pipe extension to this second jack that can lift it the necessary 10-12" from the height reached by the first jack at full extension -- and as you say, no need for a roller.

    I'll have to miss your Elkhorn Slough row this year again, as it ended up opposite to my Big Lagoon messabout. Sigh....

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I would add another jack on the other side of the tongue, a top wind screw jack with telescoping extensions and a foot (no wheel) will lift pretty high. Just crank it up when you dont need it. https://www.easternmarine.com/fulton...eg-hd2500-0101

    Although my yawl is too heavy for a wheel, the trailer has two jacks so I can raise it to "her lines" while it is in the barn. probably 30 inches from towing position.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    I'll have to miss your Elkhorn Slough row this year again, as it ended up opposite to my Big Lagoon messabout. Sigh....
    "The tide waits for no man"

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Thiis cllaims to have 28" of lift:
    http://www.boatersland.com/scp52051....SABEgLrmvD_BwE

    Red Green solution:
    Capture.JPG?
    Last edited by MN Dave; 04-11-2018 at 05:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    ?park on a hill?
    move the vessel aft on the trailer?
    Park under a tree and rig a fall to the tongue?

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Is he bilge pump pick-up at the lowest point when the boat's on her lines? Sounds funny having to tilt the boat to get water to the pump. Or does the boat sit bow-down on the trailer? I guess what I'm fishing for is a pic of the boat'trailer combo.

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Is he bilge pump pick-up at the lowest point when the boat's on her lines? Sounds funny having to tilt the boat to get water to the pump. Or does the boat sit bow-down on the trailer? I guess what I'm fishing for is a pic of the boat'trailer combo.

    Thank God I wasn't alone. #23

    Come on Thorne a little more clarity please

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    MacD -
    Dunno, as I haven't splashed her yet -- but assume that the builder knew what he was doing. The boat sits fairly flat on the trailer, but again I haven't used a level to check fore and aft, just athwartships.

    MNDave -
    That looks like what I'm thinking of, but it seems to violate several laws of physics; shown as 25" tall overall with 28" lift. There must be a tiny Tardis in there somewhere... ;-)

    The seller seems to be calculating the length and throw differently in this Amazon answer: "From center of bracket to bottom foot retracted is 7". From center of bracket to bottom foot extended is 25.25".
    By Southwest Wheel SELLER "

    I think that it may have an inner sleeve that can be dropped or raised by pulling the pin and pushing / pulling the sleeve and pinning it into place. Then a standard crank extension with xx" of lift. That would account for the mysterious measurements....

    Screen Shot 2018-04-11 at 7.05.02 PM.png



    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Is he bilge pump pick-up at the lowest point when the boat's on her lines? Sounds funny having to tilt the boat to get water to the pump. Or does the boat sit bow-down on the trailer? I guess what I'm fishing for is a pic of the boat'trailer combo.
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-11-2018 at 09:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Seems as though you have set your mind on jacks Thorne.

    What is puzzling me is your reluctance to send a photograph, and your saying "
    The boat sits fairly flat on the trailer, but again I haven't used a level to check fore and aft, just athwartships",
    and yet you seem to be aware of how high she requires lifting?

    Or am I missing something?

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    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Chipple -

    Yes you are missing something. I've posted a photo showing the current jack at full extension, and said that I need more lift. What sort of photo will make that any clearer?

    Yes I have my mind set on jacks, as I VASTLY PREFER the lifting device to be attached to the trailer frame. That way if I slightly overload the balance of the trailer by climbing around in the stern and pushing on the heavy stem-mounted rudder, the trailer will just rise up and then bang back down a short way. Using any sort of separate block under the jack wheel or the trailer frame could result in the trailer lifting up just enough to miss the block, and then slamming down the height of the block == which can't happen with a fixed jack tall enough to give me the lift I need.

    And yes, I have no exact knowledge of the amount of lift, just making a guess that an additional 10-12" will get that water to the base of the Whale pump mounted on the aft frame. I've climbed all over the boat and in the next day will be sponging out water that leaks through the cover, using the removable floorboard bilge access near the CB case, but the amount of lift needed is admittedly a guess.

    Here's my FB album on the boat so far - https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=aabf00a5fb
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-12-2018 at 09:08 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    891

    Default Re: Extra-tall marine rolling fold-back jack? Need 800lb that extends 16"-24"

    Love your boat, Thorne. Color me seriously jealous! Thanks for the FB link. Might it be possible to install a pick-up tube from the pump down to the bilge, just aft of the CB trunk? Seems like that's where you'll want the pick-up when you're in the water anyway? Would be a "two-birds" solution.

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