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Thread: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

  1. #1

    Default A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Anyone know of a design for something that is basically like a scaled-down lumberyard skiff -- quick, simple, screw-and-glue construction at 12-ish feet? My daughter would like to build (or start) a boat for her final project in her 'tech' (i.e. shop) class. She may end up with one of Dave Gentry's SOF designs, but we do have a 2hp outboard she'd like to put on back, and I don't think SOF would work for that.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    I have a couple of old MotorBoating 'Ideal' Series books ('The Plywood Boatbuilder' and 'Small Boats for Outboard Engines') that feature boats that would suit your needs. These are designs that have gone into the public domain so there are no fees to pay, and the books give dimensions, illustrations, lines, and instructions. If interested, contact me. A couple of the candidate boats would be:

    Plyabout - a plywood open very shallow-vee boat by Bruce N. Crandall LOA - 12' - 11" Beam - 4' - 8" Weight - 125 - 175 lbs Motor - 5 to 10 hp.

    Fisherman - a batten-seam open very shallow-vee boat by Bruce N. Crandall LOA - 9' - 6" Beam - 3' - 6" Weight - 75 - 100 lbs Motor - 5 hp

    Chatter Box - a plywood open very shallow-vee pram by William & John Atkin LOA - 9' - 8" Beam - 4' - 8" Weight - (not specified) Motor - 5 to 7.5 hp
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    this maybe - http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/GoodLuck.html 12'9" and calls for a 2hp motor

    further reading on chatter box - http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Dinks/Chatterbox.html

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Lots of designs like that out there.

    One nifty resource is the Duckworks 'Plan Idex'. Here's the 'skiffs' page --

    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/p...dex/skiffs.htm

    Ones that might fit -- Bay Skiff; Cartopper; Ella; FL12; Mayfly12; Spindrift...
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Build a scale model , 2 inches to one foot, of Matt board from a frame shop or art supply . Wether you choose a design or modify one a bit , building a model can help to see problems before they happen . They certainly help to visualize what is coming next , while wading through the boring beginning of a boat before it looks like a boat . And they only cost about five bux each!

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Boat Designs which is Glen-L's store offers a really sweet 12 footer that would fill her bill

    http://www.boatdesigns.com/12-Power-.../products/516/

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Why S & G?
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  8. #8

    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Thanks for the ideas everyone. I'll be taking a look through all these in the next day or two. It looks like some of the older designs might fit the brief well. They don't seem to have the kind of detailed plans/instructions some contemporary designers offer, and do require lofting, which would add a degree of difficulty.

    As for why screw and glue, my thought is that it would be best to avoid having to deal with mixing epoxy and laying gown fillets during shop class. I guess I could go in after hours and do that step with her. But the original idea was to find something that would be simpler to construct -- butt joints, chine logs, screws, flat bottom, maybe no strongback -- use inexpensive materials, and give her the satisfaction of completing a boat. We don't really need a boat in this size, so I don't want to invest too much in this project...

    (Oh, and I now realize I confused things by puyting 'S&G' in the title. That's ambiguous between screw-and-glue (which I intended) and stich-and-glue (which I'm trying to avoid). But unfortunately, you can't go back and edit thread titles....)

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Most of the old glen-l designs have full size patterns, iirc. I've built a couple of them. Plenty of how-to info from glen-l. One thing that will add to costs of a framed boat is the long stringers needed for the chine and sheer. Cheap wood tends to be knotty and often won't take the bends and twists at the bow. A garvey type hull with transoms at both ends usually means less bending and easier attachment of the panels. Also, with a 2 hp motor you may not need, or may even be better off, without a planing hull.

    Here's a pointy hull with no tight bends, longitudinal stringers for glue and screw construction, full size patterns, all the info you'll need for building included, and comes in both planing and non planing versions from Glen-L

    http://www.boatdesigns.com/11-15-Pow.../products/857/

    • Power or row option hull forms with each plan set
    • No boatbuilding experience required
    • Instructions especially for do-it-yourself builders
    • No lofting or layouts required
    • Frame-free structure - strong, simple, lightweight
    • Quick, easy, & accurate building method
    • Wide selection of sizes


    Last edited by JimD; 04-09-2018 at 10:27 AM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    I don't mean to pick on this suggestion but it does show the sort of bow that's hard to bend stringers and panels on at the bow. Not saying it's not a good boat but it's the sort of design feature you might want to watch out for if building with cheap materials. (And it's stitch and glue.) Sorry Matt
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    No worries Jim I lik all input. And your point is a good one. No stringers and someone got it to bend. Looks easier in this picture.

    Attachment 13958
    Occume, for example, bends like crazy. But that's expensive. A cheaper plywood like exterior grade fir might take some serious coaxing. There's no chine logs because it's stitch and glue and therefore epoxy filleted and glass taped. Same with the stem and transom. And for glue and screw the chine logs and stem are mandatory. And eventually you still have to bend an outter gunwale stringer on it. Another pic from SFs website looks like the builder stiffened the sheer with both inside and outside stringers sandwiching the plywood.

    Last edited by JimD; 04-09-2018 at 01:12 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Christopher,

    Phew, so glad to here you are going with screw-and-glue, wood chine construction. It really is enjoyable. I always say, you get to do more woodworking than glueworking.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  13. #13
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Bolger's 10 1/2 skiff is in one of his books. Michalak's qt skiff is in his book.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Above JimD refers to a post I had put up, I have since deleted it. I misunderstood to OPs question. I thought he meant "Stitch and Glue" my fault.
    Last edited by Matt young; 04-10-2018 at 12:34 PM.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  16. #16

    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    The Glen-L looks like it ticks the boxes.

    And I really like the look of that Bolger/Payson Pointy Skiff. A bit small, maybe, but pretty cute. Some nice pictures of one being built by Walter Baron here. Could anyone who has the "New Instant Boats" book tell me whether B/P specified screw and glue construction?

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    If you are the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?









    http://hvartial.kapsi.fi/wpunt/wpunt.htm


    Maybe a little too big ?
    If you are the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Morgan View Post
    The Glen-L looks like it ticks the boxes.

    And I really like the look of that Bolger/Payson Pointy Skiff. A bit small, maybe, but pretty cute. Some nice pictures of one being built by Walter Baron here. Could anyone who has the "New Instant Boats" book tell me whether B/P specified screw and glue construction?
    Yup. Screw and glue. Probably get the book from inter library loan if needed. Or here https://www.mcssl.com/store/hhpayson...-instant-boats I always liked Payson's writing.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Christopher, Check your private messages.

    The skiff in #17 is handsome. Not sure it would do that well with a motor which was one of the criteria.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  21. #21
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Morgan View Post
    Anyone know of a design for something that is basically like a scaled-down lumberyard skiff -- quick, simple, screw-and-glue construction at 12-ish feet? My daughter would like to build (or start) a boat for her final project in her 'tech' (i.e. shop) class. She may end up with one of Dave Gentry's SOF designs, but we do have a 2hp outboard she'd like to put on back, and I don't think SOF would work for that.
    Clint Chase's Compass Skiff (plans or kit) will likely enable her to complete the project quite swiftly, and I believe he's got a kit all ready to ship. He's also mentioned the idea of designing a larger model than the 10' version.

    Don't know where you are though.... http://www.chase-small-craft.com/compass-10
    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Above JimD refers to a post I had put up, I have since deleted it. I misunderstood to OPs question. I was thought he meant "Stitch and Glue" my fault.
    And here I thought you were just being ornery
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    And here I thought you were just being ornery
    I normally take 'S&G' to mean 'stitch & glue' as well. But would have been wrong in this case.

    Thus illustrating the unambiguous danger of using abbreviations and acronyms on such a forum as this.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I normally take 'S&G' to mean 'stitch & glue' as well.
    I think we all would. I did too, initially.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Stymied by common language again, eh?

    Such confusions, such as using a term - "horn timber", for example - commonly understood in most places as a component of the stern structure, to mean a temporary mold set up on the bow of the boat to define the flare of the bow (they look like bull horns when installed on the backbone structure), can be costly. That particular misunderstanding between a boatbuilder and myself cost me about a thousand dollars.

    It is worthwhile to be as clear as possible in correspondence, even if it means being a bit pedantic.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    And here I thought you were just being ornery
    ha, as we say here “yeah no”. Not trying to be ornery.

    Here is is an option, you could probably switch it to ply screw and glue.
    http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Oar/Dancer.html

    33C9FEF6-C8E4-4D02-8DFF-6D3C4ED0499A.gif
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    I know you want small, but before you start making saw dust seriously consider the practicality of various sizes. For example, here's 16 feet overall by 4 foot max beam, 3 foot beam on the bottom. It's a Bolger Sea Hawk, the free plans are floating around here and there.

    Pictures here:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...k-last-weekend

  28. #28

    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    I have always admired the harbor skiff from Ducktrap full sized patterns and a book to help, I have not built one but own the book and lofting they are nice.

    http://www.duck-trap.com/2002skiffs.html#HarborSkiff

  29. #29
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    And my personal version of a bigger cousin to Sea Hawk at 18.5 feet x 4.5 feet by 44" beam waterline. This is last year with a 6 hp Suzuki. I'll have a 15 hp Yammy on it this year.

    Last edited by JimD; 04-20-2018 at 11:18 AM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Ken Swan has several skiff plans. I like his designs. Method: plywood, screws & cleats only. www.SwanBoatDesign.com S&G is a slow, messy way to build a boat.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Bluegill, I think the OP meant Screw and Glue.

    Of course we think stitch and glue.

    Agreed, it is messy.
    Clinton B. Chase
    Portland, Maine

    http://tinyurl.com/myboats

  32. #32

    Default Re: A small, simple, S&G OB skiff design?

    Hi Jim.
    I have always liked Bolgers SH. Have played around with stretching/blowingup , say adding 3-4 ft to the stern for a "mini panga" or a allround 125% blowup for a family crab boat for the estuary. How did you scale up yours?
    Have you tried the 15 yet?
    Regards
    Wayne
    Fremantle
    West Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    And my personal version of a bigger cousin to Sea Hawk at 18.5 feet x 4.5 feet by 44" beam waterline. This is last year with a 6 hp Suzuki. I'll have a 15 hp Yammy on it this year.


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