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Thread: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

  1. #106
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Next question: Tall trailer guide-ons -- any recommendations? When recovering my CY singlehanded, it tends to drift off the correct trailer position due to wind and/or current, and the boat is too heavy (as I discovered this past weekend) more me to lift it back onto the row of keel rollers. i had to back it back into the water 4x to get the boat positioned correctly so the keel roller metal frames didn't gouge the keel and hull.

    Any suggestion for commercial tall trailer guide-ons, or tall rollers on posts? Due to the double-ended shape, the low roller guides probably won't work, as by the time they guide the widest part of the lower hull into place the keel will be off the 10" wide keel rollers. Plus I like the tall ones as they give you a sight line on trailer position when backing down the ramp -- and the good ones can have lights mounted on top, although I prefer to use a light board.

    Thinking of something like these:

    https://www.etrailer.com/Boat-Traile...h/CE27626.html
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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  2. #107
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...


    I have a set of these, only in white, for my Somes Sound. Mine is a significantly different hull form from yours, but it's still a small boat. Having the visual guide posts helps me a good deal in positioning. I once got the boat misaligned a bit in a cross current and the guide post held it's own without damage. The pvc isn't overly kind to my varnished rail but isn't all that damaging.

    Regarding your main sheet length: The sheet in my boat is also too long but that's because I wasn't exactly sure how long to make it. So I erred on the conservative side. I ought to cut it shorter. Perhaps the previous owner of your boat was as neglectful?

    Nice boat. Will you be bringing it to the WBF in Port Townsend this year?

    Jeff

  3. #108
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I think a pair of padded "bunks" that quide the boat work much better. Mine are about 6" from the hull.
    Part of the problem being that your boat gets narrower aft. I don't know how many times I have seen a boat sideways between the standard "posts" and the tongue.


  4. #109
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Next question: Tall trailer guide-ons -- any recommendations? When recovering my CY singlehanded, it tends to drift off the correct trailer position due to wind and/or current, and the boat is too heavy (as I discovered this past weekend) more me to lift it back onto the row of keel rollers. i had to back it back into the water 4x to get the boat positioned correctly so the keel roller metal frames didn't gouge the keel and hull.

    Any suggestion for commercial tall trailer guide-ons, or tall rollers on posts? Due to the double-ended shape, the low roller guides probably won't work, as by the time they guide the widest part of the lower hull into place the keel will be off the 10" wide keel rollers. Plus I like the tall ones as they give you a sight line on trailer position when backing down the ramp -- and the good ones can have lights mounted on top, although I prefer to use a light board.

    Thinking of something like these:
    I think that you have enough salient keel for this to work.
    Guide roller.jpgDSC03364.jpgfinished 004.jpg
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  5. #110
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    It probably depends somewhat on your boat ramp, but I tried a pair of the tall guides and found them to be a nuisance as they interfered with the stern line (my ramp has a dock on one side so I tie off a stern line to keep the boat from escaping when solo launching). The best solution I found was to retro fit a pair of triangles to close the gap between the bunk and the keel roller so that the keel would be guided onto the roller. This is hard to explain, but if you look at the pic in post #90 there is space on either side of the keel roller where the keel wants to go. I put a triangle of Trex there so the keel has no choice but to go in the slot where the roller is. Once I get the bow aligned and the winch attached to the bow eye then the boat has no choice but to fall in line.

  6. #111
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thanks, Nick, looks like it might just work! I’ll see what I can find for guide rollers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I think that you have enough salient keel for this to work.
    Guide roller.jpg
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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  7. #112
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    Default

    Couldn't you mount the tall guides further forward on the trailer, so that they bear on the boat at its max beam?

    Kevin


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  8. #113
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The problem I had originally with my Trailex, and which could be an issue with Nick's rollers, is that the boat had to be brought straight in and on center. Trying to load in the current on the Petaluma River, or in waves, you want something that leads it onto center gently.

  9. #114
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The aft of my boat doesn't settle onto the trailer until I pull it up the ramp. During this time, the boat can drift to either side or rock side to side. Any of these movements are exaggerated at the keel. So she'd just as likely come down outside of or even on top of one of Nick's rollers.

    Canoeyawl has a guide bar assembly on his trailer that I emulated for Emily Ruth. The sloped bars direct the keel to the center as the boat settles down. After I made mine I worried that they extend too high and would be in the way of the wide mid section so I took them off and never have tried them. But this thread has caused me to think about it again and I think I've worked out a way to "try it out" while in the shop. Anyway, I think the idea is sound.

    My vertical guide posts are just aft of the widest section.

    Jeff

  10. #115
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thorne, Attached is a pic from my trailer setup. I think it is very important to have the weight of the boat supported evenly along the keel, so I bolted a 4x4" 8 foot length onto the center of the trailer to supplement frame keel rollers. I use padded flat bunks to guide the boat along the inside edges of the bilge runners to center the boat onto the trailer. The flat bunks support very little of the boat weight, they just keep it in position and guide the launch and retrieval. I do most of my sailing single handed and find this works well even in windy conditions.




  11. #116
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by timber_cruiser View Post
    Thorne, Attached is a pic from my trailer setup. I think it is very important to have the weight of the boat supported evenly along the keel, so I bolted a 4x4" 8 foot length onto the center of the trailer to supplement frame keel rollers. I use padded flat bunks to guide the boat along the inside edges of the bilge runners to center the boat onto the trailer. The flat bunks support very little of the boat weight, they just keep it in position and guide the launch and retrieval. I do most of my sailing single handed and find this works well even in windy conditions.
    Thanks! I installed a series of three keel rollers in about the same location, along with the roller beneath the bow like the one in your photo, as I've had problems in the past with some boats "sticking" to wood planks on shallow ramps or when beach-launching. I may try adding bunks or bar-rollers to do that guiding process -- seems like a great idea.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  12. #117
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The "fake wood" 2x4 or 2x6 used for decks around here are really slippery when wet.
    The cheaper they are the more slippery in my experience.

  13. #118
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    At the very aft end of my trailer I have installed some long rollers on either side of the straight keel roller which are v'd so they guide the boat straight before the side bunks come into play. I made them from 2 inch PVC running on a wood axle which I made from an old bit ot 1' 1/2" spar I had kicking around. I guess each is a foot or so long. My various boats are narrow enough in the stern so that these rollers only come in to contact launching and recovering.
    Ben Fuller
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  14. #119
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    All three new keel rollers popped one end off their support brackets, but none fell off the trailer -- yet. These were the CE Smith ones, and none of the galvanized caps on the axles looked loose, so I'm not sure why the caps on either end (2 port and 1 starboard) came off...



    As for oar storage, having one set on the rails and another sticking out over the bow worked well this past weekend at Big Lagoon. We ended up rowing one-to-an-oar when possible, and the slightly-short oars worked well that way.



    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  15. #120
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    These are junk, and will eventually damage your hull. The axle can work out unnoticed and if not hole your boat it will scar it. Of this I am certain.


  16. #121
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I think I'd be inclined to pry off the push nuts and cross drill for a cotter pin or else just replace the roller pins with a thru-bolt and nyloc nut.

  17. #122
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Great photos!

    I've never really thought about why mine is the way it is or what is best or correct, but I note that your downhaul attachment point to the boom is forward of the mast by a foot or so, why is that? Do you have a parrel line around the boom?

  18. #123
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    These are junk, and will eventually damage your hull. The axle can work out unnoticed and if not hole your boat it will scar it. Of this I am certain.
    For light oar and sail boats I've always replaced the rollers with a nice carpet covered full length 2x4 which fit these brackets nicely, only retaining the aft roller which is adjusted to be just shy of the keel when the boat is flat. I like the support that full length keel support gives. There is slippery stuff available to spray on the carpet, or just wet it before hauling the boat.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  19. #124
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Jake - I hear you, and will probably drill two for pins and replace the one under the CB slot with a slippery plank of some sort. I like rollers as I've had real problems in the past getting boats off "belly planks" on shallow ramps or when beach launching. Once I had to pull the trailer back out of the water, tow the boat back up a bumpy dirt trail and tie it to a concrete post to get it 1/3 off the trailer -- then tow it back into the water and swim out to pull it off.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  20. #125
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I use rollers to support the keel for sure. But they are urethane, tripled up with cotter pins nipped close.
    No chance of accidentally scarring the boat, and the thing will launch and retrieve in the parking lot, no ramp or water required (don't ask...)

  21. #126
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    For a boat that I have that has a plank on edge keel I made a "ladder" using rollers for rungs and 2x6. Rollers about a foot to 18" apart. ( Can't measure right now as the ladder is also under the boat when it is off the trailer). It fits on either side of the full length plank or would work on a trailer with an I beam or box beam down the center. It spreads the keel load over many more rollers than the typical two or three. I also use 4 x 4's as the aft posts which is part of a double decking system as the trailer gets used for kayaks, iceboats, dories, and the faering. It is real nice to have that support when walking back on the trailer to hook up a boat. I also really work hard not to immerse the trailer hubs, and the lighting is up on the posts to keep it out of the water.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  22. #127
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Yes I've got a parrel around the mast at the yard, and tie it on with a piece of line at the boom also. The downhaul system is next on the list for "improvement", as nobody can figure out why it runs from that fiddle block attached to a grommet on the boom down to a block attached to the keelson at the base of the mast (???!!!) then back up to the block on the boom, then down to a fairlead and camcleat on the starboard side of the mast below the partner (????). This means the downhaul doesn't run fair at all, wrapping around the side of the mast as well as rubbing on the mast partner.

    Most seem to run from somewhere on the boom back down a short distance to a block on the partner, with many having a 4:1 purchase. These are made fast at the lower block, some presumably with camcleats and others with horn cleats or belaying pins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott de M View Post
    Great photos!

    I've never really thought about why mine is the way it is or what is best or correct, but I note that your downhaul attachment point to the boom is forward of the mast by a foot or so, why is that? Do you have a parrel line around the boom?
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  23. #128
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    My next issue after fixing the downhaul and keel rollers is the mizzen sheet / boomkin setup. Unless I keep the leg o' mutton sail sheeted in hard, the sheet wraps itself around the end of the boomkin where it is attached through a beehole / bee-block. Once the sheet gets two or more wraps on the boomkin, you can't control it very well.

    I know that one person suggested having a block on the end of the boomkin rather than the end of the leg o'mutton spritboom, but photos of other CY's rigs show blocks on the boom end also. Any suggestions?

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  24. #129
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I use rollers to support the keel for sure. But they are urethane, tripled up with cotter pins nipped close.
    No chance of accidentally scarring the boat, and the thing will launch and retrieve in the parking lot, no ramp or water required (don't ask...)
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  25. #130
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Mizzen sheeting: with that set up you don't have a fairlead for a 2:1 and as you have found out you have too much sheet. Been my experience that a mizzen is so small that you don't need a 2:1. You can always luff a touch if you need to decrease pressure to sheet in. We are not racing dinghies here....Try lashing the block to the boomkin, then run the sheet to the sprit and see how that works.

    In general we tend to over tackle these little boats. On the 100sqft main on RAN TAN I just use a 2:1 but I include a rachet block in the system.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  26. #131
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post

    I know that one person suggested having a block on the end of the boomkin rather than the end of the leg o'mutton spritboom, but photos of other CY's rigs show blocks on the boom end also. Any suggestions?

    What Ben and others said. Put the block on the boomkin, or if you need the power put a turning block out there as well.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  27. #132
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The dreaded boomkin hitch...
    Shorten the boomkin?

  28. #133
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    The dreaded boomkin hitch...
    Shorten the boomkin?
    Possibly moving the block to a shorter boomkin would work best, but will need to work out how to keep it from fouling when slack and gybing...
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  29. #134
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    What I found was that it is not the sheet between block and boomkin that causes the problem (usually) but the sheet from the end of the boom running forward, so I put a fairlead halfway up the sprit boom and run the sheet through there, and problem is mostly solved. This also helps the sheet clear the rudderhead.

  30. #135
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Possibly moving the block to a shorter boomkin would work best, but will need to work out how to keep it from fouling when slack and gybing...
    Get rid of the block, and any fittings, use a bee hole.
    Then shorten the boomkin.

  31. #136
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Mizzens are popular for the advantages they offer--namely holding the boat head to wind--but they sure do add complications, don't they?

    A hollow boomkin would let you run the sheet inside it to prevent fouling.

    Tom
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  32. #137
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Mizzens are popular for the advantages they offer--namely holding the boat head to wind--but they sure do add complications, don't they?

    A hollow boomkin would let you run the sheet inside it to prevent fouling.

    Tom
    What Tom said..+1

    New boomkin in place viewed from astern.jpgNew boomkin in place.jpg
    Last edited by MAGIC's Craig; 05-26-2018 at 04:02 PM. Reason: Add photo

  33. #138
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by MAGIC's Craig View Post
    Elegant, but a shed load of work when simpler solutions exist.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  34. #139
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    In general we tend to over tackle these little boats. On the 100sqft main on RAN TAN I just use a 2:1 but I include a rachet block in the system.
    That's certainly different from the 4:1 or even 6:1 downhauls that seem popular for balance lugsails around here. And your mainsail is pretty big (comparable to the Oughtred designs) at 100 sq ft.

    I've been using a 2:1 on my Alaska (85 sq ft), might bump that up a little this year--the standing lug wants more luff tension, I think.

    Tom
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  35. #140
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Elegant, but a shed load of work when simpler solutions exist.
    Wouldn't a fairlead or two on the boomkin prevent a fouled mizzen sheet? Does anyone do that? Seems like that would be pretty simple to set up.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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