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Thread: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I found that a ring bound up on my mast. Maybe I just made mine too small, but I now use the system in the pic and like it.

    I do not have a block at #2, but just screwed on a brass padeye at the right spot instead, and run the line through that.
    I also set up this spar catcher and I'm quite happy with that addition also:
    http://www.drascombe-association.org...rcatcher1.html

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I am most familiar with James’ setup on Rowan, copied onto most of the Sail & Oar guys. The halyard hauls up the traveler ring, and all the connections remain close to the mast. The left and leach of the sail provide the tension to properly angle the yard. The downhaul, also next to the mast, is your primary trimming tool, and the halyard pretty much just hauls up the yard. This arrangement seemed to work well, but of course a system needs all its parts to function correctly. There are lots of ways to hang a sail off a stick.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

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  3. #73
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    I am most familiar with James’ setup on Rowan, copied onto most of the Sail & Oar guys. The halyard hauls up the traveler ring, and all the connections remain close to the mast. The left and leach of the sail provide the tension to properly angle the yard. The downhaul, also next to the mast, is your primary trimming tool, and the halyard pretty much just hauls up the yard. This arrangement seemed to work well, but of course a system needs all its parts to function correctly. There are lots of ways to hang a sail off a stick.
    Just love that. It was the best way to do it, perfected over the centuries. Until folk started reinventing the wheel.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #74
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    A few questions about the mizzen rigging.

    1. Is the mizzen sheet tied off to the end of the boomkin, run through the block on the end of the boom, then led inboard to whatever system you use to hold and control the sheet (fairlead and camcleat in my case)?

    2. Is a downhaul common on the mizzen sail? Mine has the other end of the halyard running back down the mast. Sail is laced to the mast and easy enough to pull down by just grabbing the sail - so I'm surprised to see a line for that purpose.

    3. Does anyone have a brail-like line running from the end of the boom or clew of the mizzen sail? I'm used to Marconi sails that can be lowered onto the boom, or spritsails that can be brailed up, so can't figure out the best method to strike the sail without pulling the mast.



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  5. #75
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The mizzen needs a tack, I don't bother with a downhaul on such a small sail. My mizzen is rigged like any jib headed sail with halyard, topping lift, vang, a conventional boom and gooseneck so I just lower it, and furl it onto the boom. If you had a light topping lift on that boom you could just furl the sail onto it....
    It is awkward in that small stern to do anything while you are still under weigh so I usually jusy let the halyard go and pull it down, then deal with it in the harbor.

    pm sent...

    edit to add; Maybe not

    "The following errors occurred with your submission

    • Thorne has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."
    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 05-02-2018 at 08:32 PM.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I did some housecleaning, thanks Jake!
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    A few questions about the mizzen rigging.

    1. Is the mizzen sheet tied off to the end of the boomkin, run through the block on the end of the boom, then led inboard to whatever system you use to hold and control the sheet (fairlead and camcleat in my case)?

    2. Is a downhaul common on the mizzen sail? Mine has the other end of the halyard running back down the mast. Sail is laced to the mast and easy enough to pull down by just grabbing the sail - so I'm surprised to see a line for that purpose.

    3. Does anyone have a brail-like line running from the end of the boom or clew of the mizzen sail? I'm used to Marconi sails that can be lowered onto the boom, or spritsails that can be brailed up, so can't figure out the best method to strike the sail without pulling the mast.

    The block goes on the bumpkin
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #78
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Hi Thorne,

    1) FWIW - The plans show the block at the end of the boom as you have it, which is how I have mine, it works, but I'm not sure it is the best. I find that the sheet if slack can get fouled with the rudder, boomkin etc. so I pass it through a ring about midway on the boom to lift it clear.
    2) My "downhaul" is simply the line around the tack, the white line in your pic.
    3) I strike my sail as follows: release sheet, release snotter line - and now this is key, rotate forward end of boom up so that boom is vertical with fwd end of boom along roach of sail and aft end of boom is at bottom, now roll the sail around the boom until boom is at mast and parallel to mast, wrap sheet around mast/boom/sail to secure. So when you release, unroll until fwd/snotter end of boom is at hand and shove clew end backward, secure snotter, etc.

    4) Bonus - it is a pain to reef a sprit sail that is behind you - I have not come to a final conclusion about this yet, but I modified my setup for vertical reefing so that the sail moves toward the mast. This eliminates the need for a halyard, topping lift, reefing lines etc. The reef is pulled in by a single brailing line. Chappele page 106 calls this "sharpie reefing" and it was described in a WB article about a sharpie a few years back, and then before that in a WB note by J. Rodger Martin. Martin says "This sort of rig is the answer to World Tension." I haven't achieved nirvana yet so I don;t know. I think Jim Michalak describes it also.
    5) Bonus 2 - I put a mast gate on the mizzen just like on the main and I love it. Sure the mizzen is not huge, but it is still nice not to have to hoist it up to drop it in the partner. And if you need or want to you can drop the whole rig in the boat for reefing etc.

    Scott
    Last edited by Scott de M; 05-03-2018 at 10:06 AM.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The system on your new boat looks lovely and durable; I lack imagination as to why anyone would object to it. Why wouldn't a simple canvas cover alleviate the water-through-hole problem, if it is actually a problem at all?

    Some related anecdotes: When I designed an outrigger canoe with a cat-ketch rig I tried a few ways to get around the mizzen mast, including a quarter rudder, a clunky-looking link system, and a push-pull tiller.

    The quarter rudder was OK but I felt it didn't offer as much power given it was set about 4 feet from the stern; also, making it a kick-up system was slightly more complicated than it it is for a stern rudder.

    Then I tried a stern rudder with the link system, and this was quite comfortable and worked a bit better, though it was incomparably ugly (the one on your yawl looks svelte by comparison, though I was limited by a 22 inch wide main hull). This I piloted for ~23 hours straight during an Everglades Challenge so its comfort was proved in my mind (it was set to the side of the skiny hull, so I could sit in the hull facing forward to steer, or sit on the side-seats with a short extension tiller). But I couldn't get over the clunkiness (just a silly bias?) and then went to the push-pull tiller.

    The push-pull is probably a superior set up for a variety of reasons, though I knocked down the first time out because my brain couldn't immediate wrap around the "point to port, push to starboard" mneumonic I had invented. The steering was little less steady for me because I think it it easier to locate a tiller for steady steering. I mitigated this by increasing the length of the "tiller arm" that is mounted on the rudder-head, to about 20 inches, which increases leverage, of course but also slows the steering rate (wider sweep of radius = greater distance tiller head has to travel = slower rate). This was just the thing needed. -- Wade
    Last edited by wtarzia; 05-03-2018 at 12:05 PM.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Just in case more ideas help, here are a couple of somewhat related items:
    While our Sooty carries a mizzen boom rather than a sprit yard, we decided to change from a "mid-boom sheet to a block on a tang on the sternpost" to a hollow boomkin sheeting arrangement others have shown. This set-up allowed us to sheet the sail flatter when needed and also minimizes the opportunity for the sheet to engage in mischief with the rudder/tiller arm. A single part sheet seems to be enough for sheeting in this tiny sail.

    New boomkin in place viewed from astern.jpg

    Our mizzen also uses a downhaul at the tack the tail of which drops down to a cam cleat on the mast. With our set-up, furling the mizzen requires easing this downhaul line slightly, then folding the boom's after end up against the mast before wrapping the lot with the bunt of the sail.

    New boomkin in place.jpg

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    You will want to loop that snotter a couple times around the mast or it will slide up on you.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by timo4352 View Post
    You will want to loop that snotter a couple times around the mast or it will slide up on you.
    Tim - the snotter is tied around the mast through a hole in the multi-fairlead-thingie, goes through a bee-hole in the end of the sprit-boom, then back through another hole in the fairlead-thingie and down to a cleat on the mast -- so in my limited experience with snotters and spritbooms, I think it will stay in place, but we shall see this Saturday on the shakedown cruise.

    fairlead-mizzen.jpg
    Last edited by Thorne; 05-03-2018 at 07:34 PM.
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  13. #83
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    With a little 11-12 sq ft main mizzen and a little carbon stick I can go really KISS. Sail is sleeved and lashed top and bottom, no halyard. A gap where the snotter is tied to the mast. My sprit is a carbon tube with 1/4" dowels in the end. The outboard end has a light line button loop, the inboard end has a loop through which the snotter gets rendered and lashed. When the sail gets put away the sail gets rolled around the mast. A strategic grommet allows the snotter to get shifted if I had to reef. The mainsheet is a simple 1-1. Point mostly is that for many of these small rigs I can live with lashings, no hardware. I don't need the instant tunabilty of racing dinghies and can luff for a few minutes to make adjustments. My main on RANTAN even though it is 100 ft uses a 2-1 purchase with a small rachet block lashed to the clew. I have a half pin sticking down from the center thwart on which I can take a turn or or use a slipped hitch. I've mounted some open cam cleats to 1/2" pins that I can swap in for the rowlocks when sailing.
    Ben Fuller
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  14. #84
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Tim - the snotter is tied around the mast through a hole in the multi-fairlead-thingie, goes through a bee-hole in the end of the sprit-boom, then back through another hole in the fairlead-thingie and down to a cleat on the mast -- so in my limited experience with snotters and spritbooms, I think it will stay in place, but we shall see this Saturday on the shakedown cruise.

    fairlead-mizzen.jpg
    Thorne, that fairlead thingy is a "Bee" The hole in the sprit boom is just a hole. .
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  15. #85
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Thorne, that fairlead thingy is a "Bee" The hole in the sprit boom is just a hole. .
    Interesting! I've seen posts and articles here and elsewhere that always call the hole (for line) in the top or end of a spar a "bee-hole". Could the thingie be a "bee block"?

    From, about midway down -
    https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...g-sprit-sails/

    Screen Shot 2018-05-04 at 6.23.16 AM.jpg

    and https://smallboatsmonthly.com/article/topsails/
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Tim - the snotter is tied around the mast through a hole in the multi-fairlead-thingie, goes through a bee-hole in the end of the sprit-boom, then back through another hole in the fairlead-thingie and down to a cleat on the mast -- so in my limited experience with snotters and spritbooms, I think it will stay in place, but we shall see this Saturday on the shakedown cruise.
    Now I see it!
    Sorry did not even notice that at first. And it looks like it will work just fine; maybe better even.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Interesting! I've seen posts and articles here and elsewhere that always call the hole (for line) in the top or end of a spar a "bee-hole". Could the thingie be a "bee block"?

    From, about midway down -
    https://smallboatsmonthly.com/articl...g-sprit-sails/

    Screen Shot 2018-05-04 at 6.23.16 AM.jpg

    and https://smallboatsmonthly.com/article/topsails/
    I think that hole is more properly a dumb sheave.
    Reefing bees sometimes have a sheave in the hardest worked hole, then it is a bee block. Tom Cunliff also calls them "combs".
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  18. #88
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    This is a "Bee hole", a Carpenter Bee to bee exact! And a recent newcomer to Britain perhaps.


    A colloquialism, I have always heard it used as reference to a hole for a line to run through anywhere, but most often near or at the end of a spar.


  19. #89
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Next question for sailors of the CY and similar designs -- alternative oar storage systems? The stock method (horizontally under the side benches) puts them really in the way, and I'd rather not have crew and visitors stepping / tripping on them. The oar blade fit into cleverly-designed slots in the supports for the aft thwart, and the handles in bungee loops. Getting them out is tricky, as you have to free the handle, shove the oar forward to get it out of the slot, then carefully slide it out aft over that thwart. No idea how that would work under sail.

    Here's the only pics I can find of that storage, my CY Sunshine at the TSCA Aeolian YC breakfast last month -





    Once I build a second set of oarlock bases for the forward thwart, I can try carrying the oars "torpedo style" on the gunwales and see how that works. My friends up north also hand bundles of oars along the outside of the sheerstrake - but of course this isn't good if sailing hard enough to put that rail near the waterline!

    I may try the bowsprit method as shown here, but still want them to be fairly easily accessible yet stable in storage. Hmmmmm....


    I'd rather not lay them alongside the CB case for that same "tripping hazard" reason, but they'd sure be faster to deploy from that system -


    This Sooty Tern has 'em stashed forward, but that kills the front side bench seating, so not good for comfortable sailing with 3-5 crew aboard -
    Last edited by Thorne; 05-05-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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  20. #90
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The snotter being tied onto the mast was a real problem during today's shakedown sail in Richmond Inner Harbor. It kept the sail from easily being raised or lowered for reefing. I'm going to replace it with the more standard snotter attached to the spritboom, or a snotter just pulled through a bee hole in the block but not tied in place.





    I tested storing the oars alongside the CB case, tucked up right under the thwarts, and it worked fairly well. They were in the way for pulling and reinserting the pin that holds the CB fully up, but otherwise were out of my fairly inexperienced crew's way during today's sail.

    Last edited by Thorne; 05-05-2018 at 10:30 PM.
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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I'm a big fan of the bowsprit technique for both oars and mast(s).Handle/ butt under the forward thwart, with a dedicated strap to tie them down. I dislike the double oarlock method as I sit up on the rail when occasion permits.

    Ben
    Ben Fuller
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  22. #92
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    It's a problem, I always sent them aft off the stern. Whatever you do protect the blades from someone that doesn't know not to sep on them.
    The blades can be reduced in width more than you might think with no loss in "performance" which helps.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thanks, guys! Jake, with the boomkin and mizzen sheet aft, I can't hang the oars off that end of the boat. The mizzen sheet loves to tangle with all sorts of things -- just missed it catching a dock cleat in a very windy launch yesterday!

    Ben, my current problem is that the forward end of the lugsail boom sweeps across the bow right in the area where the oars would sit on the gunwale / breasthook. I may try changing the downhaul syst

    I may have an issue with how the boat is currently rigged. From looking at all the photos of other CY's online, it appears that the line with the string of parrel beads that holds the yard to the mast is too far forward -- nearly everyone seems to have the yard cross the mast at the centerline. I'd also love to have the mast be a foot taller, as the boom sweeps the gunwales and keeps the crew ducking. I like the option to raise the whole sail in light airs, particularly when sailing with inexperienced guests and/or kids.

    Built a set of DF oarlock bases / pads today, letting the epoxy cue before oiling and varnishing. These match the existing ones as closely as possible, and should allow another rower on the front thwart -- giving me either two or three rowers if we row two-up on the center thwart. My Humboldt friends are not fond of outboards, so I suspect we'll need these at the Big Lagoon Messabout in two weeks.


    http://luckhardt.com/blmessabout.html
    Last edited by Thorne; 05-06-2018 at 07:20 PM.
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  24. #94
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Hi Thorne,

    Some thoughts in no particular order:
    1) Agree about the snotter. You want the line to be captive to the boom, not the mast. I use a snap clip lashed to the mast at the correct height and then just snap the snotter in or out as needed.
    2) Oars - you have found all of the possible options, the one which I choose depends on number of crew. BTW, I cut holes in the athwartship support at the front of the CB case which sort of interferes with laying the oars along the CB case.
    3) Mast - agree, mine is built to spec and I wish it was taller, but of course then it would not stow as well. My solution, which only works if you are a relaxed sailor, is that I usually sail with 1 reef and the yard fully raised if I have much crew and there is much wind and we just don;t want to have to worry about the boom hitting anyone. The boat has plenty of sail, so it works for me. Another thing we do, if sailing with 3 or less, is the crew often sit on the floorboards with back against the mid thwart. Crazy Creek chairs or some cushions, fenders etc and this can be very comfortable.

    Scott

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Scott - I agree that sailing with one reef would certainly be more relaxing, and without a doubt solves the mast height issue!

    Here's a video from yesterday's downwind run up Elkhorn Slough near Moss Landing. The main halyard has about 4" of slack and knot, but the boom still hits the gunwales occasionally with just a 2:1 purchase on the downhaul.
    https://www.facebook.com/david.luckh...093143646/?t=7
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thorne,

    to my eye, you have the halyard attached too far back on the yard in that Facebook video you linked.

    Does the sail plan show the luff parallel to the mast? You seem to have the mainsail rigged with the luff not parallel. You're almost getting toward more of a standing lug set-up, with the downhaul slid pretty far forward on the boom, and the aft end of the boom lifting up. As you move the luff more parallel, the end of the boom will come down, and probably the downhaul will slide farther aft along the boom. I realize that will give your passengers even less headroom under the boom, but that's what I would try if it were my boat. I, too, would rather have a taller mast.

    To fix all that, you also need to fix this:

    It almost looks like you attachment point on the yard may be close to the tip of the yard than to the heel--it should be the other way around. You want the yard to be quite tail-heavy when hoisting the sail. Yours doesn't look that way to me, though it's hard to see much from a short snippet of video.

    Great boat--enjoy the shakedown process!

    Tom
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  27. #97
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    sliding the attachment point further toward the luff on the upper yard will give a "worse" angle to the boom for head clearance... but it will also allow Thorne to hoist the sail significantly higher up the mast... because the front end of the yard is lower than the back end o the yard.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    sliding the attachment point further toward the luff on the upper yard will give a "worse" angle to the boom for head clearance... but it will also allow Thorne to hoist the sail significantly higher up the mast... because the front end of the yard is lower than the back end o the yard.
    Yep, you're exactly right. So it may come out about even in the end.

    Tom
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  29. #99
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Some photos by Canoeyawl from yesterday's very breezy sail on Elkhorn Slough with the TSCA in this thread down in the Bilge -
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...-Sunshine-quot

    As you can see, I added oarlocks for the foreward thwart and carried the long Shaw & Tenney oars "torpedo style" on the gunwales. The second set (old 10' fiberglass racing shell oars) I bungeed alongside the CB case as shown in photos above.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Another question -- the mainsheet is very long, and I'm wondering why that might be. It ties to the top of the fiddle block on this mainsheet fitting, runs up to a block on the end of the boom and back down to the block and camcleat. From what I know about sailing, you never ever want the end of the boom to go foreward of the mast -- but my mainsheet is long enough to let it go all the way forward. Any idea why?

    Last edited by Thorne; 05-13-2018 at 10:00 PM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    On set up they might have thought of having an extra purchase, I did exactly the same on my boat so I bought over-long.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thorne,

    it can actually be handy to have that much sheet for a last-ditch "let 'er fly" depowering of the sail with a balance lug. You can let the sail spin all the way forward and stream out over the bow if things start to get out of hand. Then you're not sailing anymore, the sail is just weathercocking into the wind.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  33. #103
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I'll measure it and leave enough to let the sail all the way forward, but still think I'll have 8-10' extra. We shall see...

    Thanks again, all!
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Thorne,

    it can actually be handy to have that much sheet for a last-ditch "let 'er fly" depowering of the sail with a balance lug. You can let the sail spin all the way forward and stream out over the bow if things start to get out of hand. Then you're not sailing anymore, the sail is just weathercocking into the wind.

    Tom
    Having had to resort to that technique it is a damned good thing there was no jib as it probably saved my life, I was about five miles offshore and just let it fly and kept following it until we could get the sail and the spar down and back in the boat. An overpowered lug sail can get all awry in a few seconds with a serious heeling moment.
    In my case (about 40 years ago) it was just "Dumb luck" that there was no stopper in the sheet.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I also had to do that on Tomales Bay, heading down to the ramp at Inverness. That was my canvas marconi sail, rigged with a sorta-kinda Leg o' Mutton sprit-boom. I think that was the year you launched there, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Having had to resort to that technique it is a damned good thing there was no jib as it probably saved my life, I was about five miles offshore and just let it fly and kept following it until we could get the sail and the spar down and back in the boat. An overpowered lug sail can get all awry in a few seconds with a serious heeling moment.
    In my case (about 40 years ago) it was just "Dumb luck" that there was no stopper in the sheet.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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