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Thread: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    Did you all catch the detail on the cut in the sheerstrake here? That "C" shape appears to exactly accomodate the changing position of the connecting rod through its full sweep. I can't decide whether I should be impressed with the work that went into making it so, or just chuckle at worrying the detail to such a degree.


    interesting... Thorne new ride seems set up is such a way that there is no vertical wander of the push rod in actuating the rudder, simply side to side movement...


    congrats thorne, nice looking vessel!

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I'm in the process of putting together the steering gear on my "Long Steps" sail and oar open cruiser. It presents issues not dissimilar to the Caledonia yawl in that the tiller is forward of the mizzen, and the action has to be taken past there to the rudder head. I've just built the tiller and pivot, the details are in my blog "here" http://jwboatdesigns.blogspot.co.nz/

    I'm away doing child sitting duties for much of the week, but then its back to the workshop and building the rudder head, cranks, connecting rod ( I used to build my own motorcycle race engines, I think you can tell) and hooking them all up.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Interesting work on that tiller, John!

    Two more pics from today's shakedown cruise of the Bellcrank steering on my CY -


    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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  4. #39
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Another question == the standing lugsail has the halyard attached to the top spar a foot or so away from the mast. Attached to the mast is a toggle roband made with a thin nylon line with parrel beads. Hauling the sail up involves lots of noise and pressure on that piece of line around the mast, as that's what's giving the correct "nearly 45 degree" angle on that spar.

    Do people beef up those lines at all? The spars and halyard are all large and strong, but I'm wondering if that piece of line (actually a toggled roband) should be heavier?


    Replace the roband with a dog collar for a large dog. Stout and adjustable. Once you get the size adjusted correctly, you can make something more boatish.


    The James was a fan of a metal traveler ring with a hook, and a corresponding loop seized to the yard. The halyard attaches to the traveler ring.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thanks, Ben!

    So in most cases does the halyard attach to part of the top spar that is a noticeable distance away from the mast? That's how the PO says this one should be rigged, and where he had the halyard attach to the yard, about a foot from the loop of line with parrel beads that holds the yard to the mast.

    It sounds like The James™ system results in having the halyard attach to the yard right at the mast to both raise it and give it the correct angle, unless there's a topping lift / whatever to pull the aft end of that spar up to the approved angle.

    Last edited by Thorne; 04-16-2018 at 09:01 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    20180416_154552.jpg20180416_154425.jpg

    I think Ian Oughtred was perhaps inspired by Windfola (The folding schooner) from Phil. Bolger when he designed the CAl. Yawl. The steering arrangement on Windfola looks like the contraption in the C.A. Personally I prefer Ians push/pull stick, no machining, just some wood and rope.
    I would use a regulation line at the lower end of the yard: You take some polyester line, 4 mm, a miniblok and tie the line end the block to the lower yard end. The line goes around the mast to the miniblock and down to a cleat. That way you can trim the yard very efficiently. Its also somewhere in my blog. Btw. you have a beautifull boat. Frank
    www.oarandsail.nl
    Last edited by FF; 04-16-2018 at 09:29 AM.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Scott in post #28 has it right. I’ve crewed CYs a bit and rowing side by side with an oar each is the way to go if there is a lot of rowing to do.
    The push pull tiller works fine, it doesn’t take long to get used to it. But your tiller looks fine, too. I wouldn’t change it.

    What folks don’t realize until they’ve sailed these boats is that you don’t really even need the tiller that much. When set up well you can steer with the mizzen sail. Really. Try it.

    I’m not sure about the halyard placement. What do the plans show? How does Geoff Kerr have his Ned Ludd rigged? He is the master at sailing these boats.

    google “Ned ludd Caledonia Yawl” and hit images. It doesn’t look like his halyard is attached like your guy says.
    Last edited by StevenBauer; 04-16-2018 at 09:15 AM.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Had a look at the C.Y. sailplan: foot 10'9", leach19'5", luff 9'9", head 12'4" diag. 13'0" . Attach point halyard 5'2' from lower end yard. Frank

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    #42 , says row with 2 persons on a bench. Also what I found. The CY is 188cm wide and the max. Span for one oarsman is about 160 cm as in the Ness Yawl. And my own lugger. I think CLC has the most comprehensive article on rowing and oar lenght. Frank

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    No comment about how well the boat sailed?

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    My yard attaches at 4'10" from the lower/thicker part of the spar, but Ian's plans say 5' 4". If you locate your downhaul around 19" back from the forward end of the boom, the yard will sit correctly.
    Last edited by kelso; 04-16-2018 at 05:35 PM. Reason: correction

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    It motored along quite well, but I left the sticks and rags at home. Not bad for the first launch. All the TSCA folks that saw it (and some went out in it for a rowing test) said, "It's HUGE !!" ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    No comment about how well the boat sailed?
    Rowing one up -


    And two -


    First time in salt water for Sunshine!


    At the Brotzeit German restaurant dock -


    Motoring of us motoring in the Alameda channel towards the Aeolian YC -
    https://www.facebook.com/david.luckh...11921645497306
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    What a cool boat.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    How's that work, rowing side-by-side? It looked a little cramped, but not too bad. It also looks like you're having to hang your aft end off the forward end of the rowing thwart to be in the right spot for the oarlocks? Great looking boat, though!

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Thanks, Ben!

    So in most cases does the halyard attach to part of the top spar that is a noticeable distance away from the mast? That's how the PO says this one should be rigged, and where he had the halyard attach to the yard, about a foot from the loop of line with parrel beads that holds the yard to the mast.

    It sounds like The James™ system results in having the halyard attach to the yard right at the mast to both raise it and give it the correct angle, unless there's a topping lift / whatever to pull the aft end of that spar up to the approved angle.

    I'd say look at the sail shape and the tension on the luff and the leech, then move the halyard attachment point as needed to balance them out. On my little pram if the halyard attaches to the yard right at the mast the leech will still be a bit loose while the luff is tight unless I really pulled the halyard tight, which flattens the sail too much. 8" or a foot further back seemed to work better.

    Took me a while to figure that one out.

    Nice looking boat, gonna take it on the gunkhole this year?

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kremer View Post
    Nice looking boat, gonna take it on the gunkhole this year?
    I just might, we'll have to see. I'll be recovering from shooting cannons at the Pirate Festival the weekend before including the starting day, Sunday 6/17. But I might be able to catch up on the 18th-23...
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by FF View Post
    20180416_154552.jpg20180416_154425.jpg

    I think Ian Oughtred was perhaps inspired by Windfola (The folding schooner) from Phil. Bolger when he designed the CAl. Yawl. The steering arrangement on Windfola looks like the contraption in the C.A.
    You may be right about the inspiration, but Windfola isn't Bolger's folding schooner--the folding schooner is a 28' flat-bottomed plywood boat. Definitely not what you posted (which isn't a schooner, anyway...) Actually, the only folding schooner I've seen used a Norwegian push-pull tiller (a looooong one).

    Tom
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kremer View Post
    I'd say look at the sail shape and the tension on the luff and the leech, then move the halyard attachment point as needed to balance them out. On my little pram if the halyard attaches to the yard right at the mast the leech will still be a bit loose while the luff is tight unless I really pulled the halyard tight, which flattens the sail too much. 8" or a foot further back seemed to work better.

    Took me a while to figure that one out.

    Nice looking boat, gonna take it on the gunkhole this year?
    Rigged the way you describe (with halyard attachment point a foot back from the mast), do you find the yard sags off too much when the sail is reefed? That's one reason I've generally tied the halyard and parrel on my boats so the halyard attachment is right at the mast--something I'd think the metal traveler ring takes care of very well, which is why I may try it this year.

    I'll have to check the leech/luff tension next time I hoist the sail, though--haven't paid enough attention to that.

    Tom
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Tom, I am referring to the book 'The folding schooner, and other adventures in boat design'.: Every chapter deals with a design, chapter 4 is on folding schooners and 23 on Windfola.
    Its a pity many of Phil. Bolgers books are out of print, and I wonder if a 'printing on demand' service could do something here.
    ''

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Thanks, Ben!

    So in most cases does the halyard attach to part of the top spar that is a noticeable distance away from the mast? That's how the PO says this one should be rigged, and where he had the halyard attach to the yard, about a foot from the loop of line with parrel beads that holds the yard to the mast.

    It sounds like The James™ system results in having the halyard attach to the yard right at the mast to both raise it and give it the correct angle, unless there's a topping lift / whatever to pull the aft end of that spar up to the approved angle.

    I think that the PO was putting on airs to be interesting.
    This is what Mr Oughtred intended
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I'll continue to play with the sails and I'm sure it will all work out. I was wondering about the attachment point primarily because hauling the mainsail yard to the top of the mast causes a lot of pressure on the parrel bead toggle roband -- making noises and grinding the beads on the mast. But if this is normal then I won't worry. ;-)
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    "hauling the mainsail yard to the top of the mast causes a lot of pressure on the parrel bead toggle roband -- making noises and grinding the beads on the mast. But if this is normal"

    This is not normal in my experience. Unless ... you are running the halyard downfall inside the parrel. My halyard is outside. Also where you tie the parrel line around the yard needs to be forward of where the halyard attaches.
    Last edited by Scott de M; 04-17-2018 at 09:03 AM.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    I just might, we'll have to see. I'll be recovering from shooting cannons at the Pirate Festival the weekend before including the starting day, Sunday 6/17. But I might be able to catch up on the 18th-23...
    The "southern contingent" will be gunkholing starting on the week of 23rd>

    I have a drawing of what eventually worked out for me as the best way. It's floating around the internets somewhere...

    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 04-17-2018 at 11:29 AM.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I made one of those McMullen traveler rings. You can borrow it to try out, let me know and I'll bring it to Richmond.


  25. #60
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thorne,
    What is the size of that Yamaha in the well?
    (Trying to do some planning and budgeting of my own.)

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by jtdums View Post
    Thorne,
    What is the size of that Yamaha in the well?
    (Trying to do some planning and budgeting of my own.)
    Found my own answer in your other tread about transporting a 2.5...
    Beautiful boat by the way.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by FF View Post
    Tom, I am referring to the book 'The folding schooner, and other adventures in boat design'.
    Ah, that makes sense--I forgot it was a book title. I think I've only read Boats with an Open Mind and the various instant boat manuals with (by) Dynamite Payson.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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  28. #63
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    I'll continue to play with the sails and I'm sure it will all work out. I was wondering about the attachment point primarily because hauling the mainsail yard to the top of the mast causes a lot of pressure on the parrel bead toggle roband -- making noises and grinding the beads on the mast. But if this is normal then I won't worry. ;-)
    Sounds as though the parral line is tied off too short. The metal traveller ring that rgthom posted is more normal, although in the Shetlands they would use a rams horn or bent root tied to the yard.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    INTERESTING -- thanks, Jake! I may just give that a try if I've got a decent block the correct size.

    Rick - I'd love to borrow it, and am "between contracts" right now, although usually busy on weekends.


    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    The "southern contingent" will be gunkholing starting on the week of 23rd>

    I have a drawing of what eventually worked out for me as the best way. It's floating around the internets somewhere...

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Rick - I'd love to borrow it, and am "between contracts" right now, although usually busy on weekends.
    It's in my car, will be at my Richmond office tomorrow. Stop by anytime.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I borrowed the McMullen Traveler Ring™ from Rick, and we'll see how it works out. With the leather wrap it comes within 4' of the mast base, so I think that will work out fine. I slipped it over the halyard and flag halyard to see how it fit, but of course it is upside down -

    IMG_8044.jpg

    The way I understand it, the halyard ties off to the loop of the ring. The S-hook goes through a loop / grommet on the yard, you hoist away and everything works perfectly, right James McMullen? ;-)



    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    I made one of those McMullen traveler rings. You can borrow it to try out, let me know and I'll bring it to Richmond.

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    I borrowed the McMullen Traveler Ring™ from Rick, and we'll see how it works out. With the leather wrap it comes within 4' of the mast base, so I think that will work out fine. I slipped it over the halyard and flag halyard to see how it fit, but of course it is upside down -

    IMG_8044.jpg

    The way I understand it, the halyard ties off to the loop of the ring. The S-hook goes through a loop / grommet on the yard, you hoist away and everything works perfectly, right James McMullen? ;-)
    Yes, that is how the bits all come together.

    I used a prussik hitch around the yard so I could play with how the sail set figuring I'd do something permanent eventually. Still using the prussik, marked with a bit of tape on the odd chance it moves in storage.
    Steve

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thorne:
    If the ring is a fairly tight fit to the mast and the halyard is rigged inside it, the hauling part usually comes down the opposite side of the mast from the usual location of the hoisting hook when you are starting to hoist. I have found that this tighter fit can bind the halyard - in my case, just about the time a good gust comes along to belly out the sail - and things can become a bit "interesting" if there are nearby boats or buoys to avoid. Just a "heads up" for those first couple of times you try it out.
    Craig

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