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Thread: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

  1. #1
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    Default Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I picked up a 2006 CY from a WB Forumite here in Northern California, and haven't tried rigging it yet.

    The boat has a unique tiller / steering system that I've never seen before, and the owner thought it might be called a drag link system. Anyone know what it may be called, and is it used on other similar boats?

    The builder apparently didn't like the standard push-pull tiller that is seen on most Caledonia Yawls, and I'm reserving judgement until I get a chance to try this system out.

    Here's a photo of the steering setup on the boat -

    From the outside -





    From inside the boat -

    Last edited by Thorne; 04-05-2018 at 12:03 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Nice score How's that arrangement feel? Looks a little klunky, but if you're not comfortable with the Scandinavian yoke it looks to be a workable solution.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Looks like the system Bolger designed for Birdwatcher

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I see two big holes to let water in and an over complicated clunky system.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I'm still hoping for a name for this steering system, which would hopefully let me research it. Found an old post in this forum from keyhavenpotterer about something similar on a Ness Yawl. I could ask the designer but thought I'd ask here first.
    TIA
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...



    Nice boat Thorne. I've seen a few NY and CY's with with linkages. It's alot easier for other people to have a go on a boat without a norwegian tiller. Walkabout works like that also. People that are interested in your boat will start walking backward when they see a Norwegian tiller.

    Just use it obviously and see what you think. The tiller end looks quite high ergonomically, so that it clears the outboard top. Good standing up probably. Looking at her in profile, the more usual double sided bent laminated/ steamed tiller going either side of the mizzen from the rudder head top looks like it would give a lower tiller at the hand end. Nice summer project maybe. You could laminate a bent tiller over the outboard top I guess too to get the end lower or just reposition it to angle better when the outboard isn't there in a second position.

    I wouldn't be in a rush to remove it at all provided there wasn't too much play in it. Here's another CY that was built with a linkage, built by Dorset Wooden Boats.



    And the NY

    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 04-05-2018 at 05:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    No way to check easily, but I have a feeling john guzzwell's trekka had a linkage like that... am I remembering that correctly?

    Whatever the case, that sure is a beautiful boat Thorne, you must be pretty excited. Good for you!

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Nice score Thorne!
    I recon use it for a bit ...THEN tear it the hell out of there and patch those holes!

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    But Bruce if he gets rid of that system there still needs to be a way for the tiller to reach around that mast... what is a better way?

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post

    Here's another CY that was built with a linkage, built by Dorset Wooden Boats.



    And the NY

    Now that is an elegant solution.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I wouldn't be in a rush to remove it at all provided there wasn't too much play in it. Here's another CY that was built with a linkage, built by Dorset Wooden Boats.



    That is a really nice arrangement. I think I just found a nice project for the next winter!

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thanks, folks! Still want the official name for that steering-thingie, but good to see that Sunshine isn't the only one set up that way. I do wish the builder had used the design shown above with the linkage going through the sheerstrake rather than lower strake, as it sort of matches the hole in the sheerstrake for the boomkin on the other side.

    The CY has **SO MUCH FREEBOARD** that I think not much water will come in through the steering linkage hole/port, but might rig up a split flexible rubber cover like those for centerboard slots if it is an issue.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Trekka


    Trekka3.jpg
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    "Bellcrank steering" for a name? It looks like the original builder was trying to avoid having to use a Heim-ttype connector on the ends of the steering link and kept it perpendicular to the pivot axis on the rudder to avoid one axis of motion. Unless you regularly sail with big following seas I wouldn't worry about water intrusion, but just for appearances I'd agree that a leather or rubber boot would "feel" better. Interesting to note that on Trekka the steering is proportioned...takes much less tiller movement to move the rudder. Wonder how that "feels"?

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Trekka's steering is similar, but I'd call it a double-yoke design -- no levers connecting the two. I looked up Bellcrank steering and that might be the real deal. See photo -

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Denise -

    Nope. The steering system most in use on CYs is the push-pull, aka Norwegian tiller -- but this isn't that design. With push-pull, you have to pull the tiller forward on one tack and push back on the other tack. The design in question produces a more standard tiller experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    "Push Pull Rudder" is what it's called from my limited amount of knowledge and online research.

    Search words; Push Pull Rudder
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Thanks, folks! Still want the official name for that steering-thingie, but good to see that Sunshine isn't the only one set up that way. I do wish the builder had used the design shown above with the linkage going through the sheerstrake rather than lower strake, as it sort of matches the hole in the sheerstrake for the boomkin on the other side.

    The CY has **SO MUCH FREEBOARD** that I think not much water will come in through the steering linkage hole/port, but might rig up a split flexible rubber cover like those for centerboard slots if it is an issue.
    This was pretty common on sailing canoes. I think we just called it norwegian steering and let it go, but there might be a term in the canoe sailing literature. The builder rigged it the way it is to avoid the outboard well, it looks like, putting it on the same side as the boomkin. You might be able to rig a less clunky tiller head arrangement once you have some time with the boat. The Dorset boat illustrated above might provide inspiration.
    Ben Fuller
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Twin- Again, CONGRATS!! I love it that you now own a boat with 'bell-crank' steering. It just seems apt somehow. Hope I get to see it soon.
    David G
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thorne:
    I do not have a name for that arrangement, though I think that the previous replies give you a good start.
    Iain drew a "Lyre" style tiller for the Arctic Tern /Sooty Tern as an alternative. I built one as a fun project and to see whether we liked it more than the Norwegian style tiller. Here are a couple of photos for you and for my comments pro and con:

    lyre-tiller steering Wee Bonnie.jpg

    can you guess now.jpg

    The lower picture gives you the basic planiform and it is designed to fit over the rudder head, settling down against a block fitted to the usual tiller through-mortise.

    So, you get the usual tiller feel and if you are single handing, it works well. Because of the angle of the rudder's pivot, this type of tiller will flop to one side or another if it is not in your hand, unless one rig's some form of a simple "tiller-tamer". It does prevent the practical use of the aft deck for seating and adds complication if you need to stand alongside the mizzen to raise, lower or reef that sail.

    Since we normally sail as a pair, the non-rowing person sits to steer on the aft deck, so we have returned to using the original push-pull set-up shown below.

    Wee Bonnie from astern close up when about to launch.jpg

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Just enjoy the new boat!Reports of your travels in it eagerly anticipated and if in six months you find it lacking I expect there will be lots of advice on alternatives.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Lovely looking boat.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Very cool! I have no idea what the steering gear is called, but looking forward to seeing it at some point.

    I assume this is not the boat for a TSCA rowing event, just a tad of windage...

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    Very cool! I have no idea what the steering gear is called, but looking forward to seeing it at some point.

    I assume this is not the boat for a TSCA rowing event, just a tad of windage...
    Caledonia's are big boats for pleasure rowing. Not bad with the rig down. Rowing two up is reasonably pleasant so two with or without a cox with the rig down or left ashore would make a day of rowing kind of fun. I'd set her up with a few more rowing stations. You could also try sweep rowing on the bench that you have.
    Ben Fuller
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    For some reason I never saw this thread yesterday even though I looked...

    I like those linkage tiller adaptions, I haven't seen any like that in New England yet, everyone goes for the push-pull. I have seen a NY with Lyre type tiller. Very neat.

    CY's aren't too terrible to row, especially when light. Just take yer time. They pull straight and true. Easier to row than my Sea Pearl for sure. Fast sailors too, which is really nice.

    Congrats Thorne!

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by rgthom View Post
    ... I assume this is not the boat for a TSCA rowing event, just a tad of windage...

    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Caledonia's are big boats for pleasure rowing. Not bad with the rig down. Rowing two up is reasonably pleasant so two with or without a cox with the rig down or left ashore would make a day of rowing kind of fun. I'd set her up with a few more rowing stations. You could also try sweep rowing on the bench that you have.
    Ben - I haven't rigged or sailed her yet, but I suspect that adding a forward rowing station may be a good idea, particularly with the crew / helmsperson sitting aft. The compass is attached with velcro, so rowing shouldn't be too bad from the center thwart. We shall see...

    View forward -


    View aft -
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I was hoping they were purple sails, alas not, but purple sailbags are pretty cool

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Congrats, great version of a great boat!

    FWIW - I usually row my CY from the forward position. When solo the boat seems to track a bit better, especially if going to windward. If there is crew I still row from up front because for some reason it is most comfortable to me and then the crew steers by rudder; or we sit side by side on the middle thwart and each man an oar, which makes for quite easy rowing. For me, I find that at about 12-15 kts of wind I cannot make any way to windward under oars.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    The critical piece on the CY and indeed on any other sail and oar boat is dropping the rig if there is any breeze or indeed a sea. I'm sure it would benefit from the short slide that I worked out for my dory ( and other boats) as it would let you use a little more power. These big boats really like two up rowing and two working from the center thwart with sweeps helps harness the power. I set up my 10' oars on RAN TAN with double width handles to make them more conducive to sweep use and extended the leather as needed. RANTAN is pretty crabby if I row solo from forward but it is fine if there is a cox. I do carry a couple of 25lb shot bags to trim her for rowing as with the flat bottom board build she is quite weight sensitive. I have lashing lines or webbing for my spars so can tuck the mainmast under the forward thwart and let it stick out forward rowing. Sail on its yard can go on the opposite side along with the mizzen which keeps the boat clear for one, two. or three rowing / steering.
    Ben Fuller
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    What, you bought a boat and haven't rigged it yet? I'd drag it home and set up the rig in the driveway before I even went inside for a pee I reckon.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    I had an Old Town “Wahoo” sailing canoe that had a similar system. It had very little free play and worked well.

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Did you all catch the detail on the cut in the sheerstrake here? That "C" shape appears to exactly accomodate the changing position of the connecting rod through its full sweep. I can't decide whether I should be impressed with the work that went into making it so, or just chuckle at worrying the detail to such a degree.

    -Dave

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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Another question == the standing lugsail has the halyard attached to the top spar a foot or so away from the mast. Attached to the mast is a toggle roband made with a thin nylon line with parrel beads. Hauling the sail up involves lots of noise and pressure on that piece of line around the mast, as that's what's giving the correct "nearly 45 degree" angle on that spar.

    Do people beef up those lines at all? The spars and halyard are all large and strong, but I'm wondering if that piece of line (actually a toggled roband) should be heavier?
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-15-2018 at 12:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Thorne--great boat!

    I for one would much rather have a conventional tiller than a push-pull, so it's nice the boat is set up that way already. Although I do think I'd want to sweep the tiller down so it's not so high, at such a weird angle, the way it looks in the photos.

    I suspect someone will be along to suggest that you use a metal traveler ring for your halyard instead of a parrel. I have generally used the tail of the halyard instead of a separate line (I know my halyard is stupid strong), but I may well try out a traveler ring this year instead.

    Tom

    Edit to add: I've seen similar-ish tiller linkages on the Welsford Walkabout design, and they seemed to work well.
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    Default Re: Just bought a 2006 Caledonia Yawl, and have a few questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Another question == the standing lugsail has the halyard attached to the top spar a foot or so away from the mast. Attached to the mast is a toggle roband made with a thin nylon line with parrel beads. Hauling the sail up involves lots of noise and pressure on that piece of line around the mast, as that's what's giving the correct "nearly 45 degree" angle on that spar.

    Do people beef up those lines at all? The spars and halyard are all large and strong, but I'm wondering if that piece of line (actually a toggled roband) should be heavier?
    Once the sail is up and the halyard tension is resisted by tack tension the parral line should not see too much tension. The shorter drift between halyard sheave and yard the less there will be,
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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