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Thread: What Have I Done

  1. #36
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Instead of trying to get her back to oz could you move you and your wife permanently aboard and remain in NZ. Ditch the career, sell the house, sell the car, go cruising... after all, I hear you only live once...

  2. #37
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightwater View Post
    Hugh, great to hear about your experiences with the Catalina 38. I might see if I can find out more about that boat...
    The Catalina 38 was formerly the Yankee 38. Catalina Yachts bought the design and Frank Butler redesigned the cabintop and replaced the skeg mounted rudder with a spade...I haven't sailed with the skeg, so I can't comment on that, but the spade rudder configuration works fine. Broader sections and not as fine an entry as yours, but very similar. They're fairly sought after boats over here. This is a good place to start:

    http://sparkmanstephens.blogspot.com...yankee-38.html

  3. #38
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightwater View Post
    That's reassuring John, thank you. I don't think she even has a kite at this stage!

    Financial considerations aside, what do you think of the idea of (eventually) replacing her mast with something a bit lighter, with more spreaders, and maybe synthetic rigging? I imagine one could lose a huge amount of weight aloft. Bit absurd talking about it before I've even sailed her properly, of course, but fun to consider.
    Hugh, great to hear about your experiences with the Catalina 38. I might see if I can find out more about that boat...
    I think you won't notice a giant performance leap with a new rig. It would be better but not earth shaking. Personally, I think synthetic wouldn't be right for her. Pretty sure Waianawa had a new double spreader mast and bit more mainsail put in her to make her a bit more CCA or RORC looking rather than IOR.
    Some of the modern eurotrash boats have selden rigs in them. If you came across one of those from a damaged 40 or 42 footer it might be worth considering. A friend of mine just pulled an ali tree trunk out of his 50 ft classic and replaced it with a 4 spreader noodle from a racing Davidson 55 . In reality all it will do is improve light air performance, which you can do with a big genoa anyway. No , really the money would be better elsewhere.

    What boats did we decide she was sister to? Young Nick and Pathfinder?
    http://sparkmanstephens.blogspot.co....sign-2062.html

    Or...Young Nick and ?
    http://sparkmanstephens.blogspot.co....oung-nick.html
    Last edited by John B; 04-05-2018 at 05:17 PM.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    So far as synthetic standing rigging is concerned, I am in favor of anything that will reduce weight and windage aloft. I should think that one would do routine checking of the rig in order to evaluate its condition as it ages. If the current rig does not flex out of column I see no reason to add spreaders which produce both, more, windage and weight to the rig. The current rig seems a bit iffy without a second set of spreaders but, one would assume that the stick is aluminum. The metal mast does reduce column foreshortening by virtue of the fact that it does not shorten, under load, as wood will. If you go wood then, you would be wise to add the spreaders. A fractional rig would then be a better choice as it is easier to keep the jib and or forstay sag to a minimum.
    Jay
    Last edited by Jay Greer; 04-05-2018 at 12:33 PM.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Bah humbug. I'm sure its nice but I also reckon Brightwater needs to plan some cruising in the Hauraki gulf and Bay of islands . plus plus plus.

    Congratulations on buying a beautiful boat Brightwater, I’m very envious.

    And I agree with JB - instead of rushing to get her stored and then eventually shipped home, I’d be making the absolute most of getting to know her before making any decisions about change rigs or anything and doing so by cruising her throughout NZ for as long as possible whenever possible while she is there.

    I think you’d be kicking yourself in a few years if you bring her home and realise too late what you’ve missed out on over there when you had the chance....

    You have some of the best shipwrights in the world right there for any work you may want to have done on her and no shortage of yachtsmen and women who will help you with advice on anything you need.

    Besides, if you are living in Canberra (as I am too), there’s never going to be a 10 minute drive to the marina so you may as well fly to NZ (or later to Hobart as Phil suggests) as drive to Batemans Bay or anywhere else on the coast here.

    Congratulations again Brightwater (do you have a first name?) you have made a lot of us S&S fans quite jealous.
    cheers
    Greg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
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  6. #41
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    You are a wise man with a perfect wife. Well bought.
    What Phil said, well done !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  7. #42
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightwater View Post
    Also, I'd be very keen to hear from people more experienced than myself regarding where on the coast of NSW might work to keep a boat like this. We're in Canberra, which makes the closest port Batemans Bay, but access to other cruising grounds/destinations without lengthy coastal passages might be worth driving further for. Pittwater is lovely, if a bit crowded and full of complete wankers. Her deep draft may make some NSW bar crossings a sketchy proposition.
    Jervis Bay!

    Waaayyyy better sailing than Batemans. You do a day sail down to Batemans when it comes to hauling time. Facilities are few in JB.
    Gotta be sure of your mooring in either Vincentia or Callala.
    Terry will hire you one of his moorings in the creek, $25 a week or so, while you sort things (rego/HIN/Mooring) out.

    I've got mine at the northern end in Callala Bay.

    Its going to be okay - you did the right thing.
    "People should be able to access these benefits [Social Welfare] as a matter of right, with no more loss of their own standards of self-respect than would be involved in collecting from an insurance company the proceeds of an endowment policy on which they have been paying premiums for years."
    Robert Menzies - Liberal Party (Conservative) Prime Minister of Australia.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Thanks Peter (and Phil). She's a keeper...my partner, that is.

    Zane, I appreciate the tips. Makes sense re not sailing DDW. Kind of makes one question the value of symmetrical spinnakers on cruising boats, doesn't it, with all the attendant hassles of spinnaker poles etc. Somehow I don't feel Kishmul would look right with a bowsprit, which is a pity - an asymmetric would be entertaining.

    Greg, thank you for the kind words! My first name is Tom. The forum handle comes from a favourite book of mine, read many times during my childhood, but it takes a while to type.

    You make good points re keeping her in NZ, and I suspect she may well stay there a year or two (who knows, maybe even longer) after coming out of storage. Keeping her in storage over the next year or so is not because I don't want to sail her in NZ - quite the opposite. Rather, it's so that I can bring her back to perfect condition, and let the bank balance recover from the purchase before doing necessary (and expensive) maintenance on her rig. The downside is that at 28, and at a relatively hectic stage of my career, it's hard to get away for long periods and having her nearby for weekends would be great. It's also much harder to sail with friends and family while she's in NZ. Speaking of which, when she does finally make her way back here, yourself and any other WBF S&S fans are more than welcome to join me for some sailing.

    In the meantime, when she eventually hits NZ water again, I might have to convince JohnB (who already gave me the benefit of his trove of NZ boating knowledge during the purchase) to come and give me a few tips. By the way, John, Kishmul is definitely sister to Young Nick - not sure about Pathfinder. A commenter on that link says he owns Pathfinder now, and seems to be located in the US - looks like you have both Australians and Yanks stealing your boats. Damned parasites...

  9. #44
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    I'm in if it can be made to fit, I'd love to go for a sail on her and meet you guys.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    Jervis Bay!

    Waaayyyy better sailing than Batemans. You do a day sail down to Batemans when it comes to hauling time. Facilities are few in JB.
    Gotta be sure of your mooring in either Vincentia or Callala.
    Terry will hire you one of his moorings in the creek, $25 a week or so, while you sort things (rego/HIN/Mooring) out.

    I've got mine at the northern end in Callala Bay.

    Its going to be okay - you did the right thing.
    Thanks Gypsie! JB is on the 'possible' list, though I know the facilities are, as you say, few. I think a marina has been in the works there for quite some time. I've only been to the area once and I recall thinking that the moorings were pretty exposed - you don't have any issues with your boat?

  11. #46
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    So far as synthetic standing rigging is concerned, I am in favor of anything that will reduce weight and windage aloft. I should think that one would do routine checking of the rig in order to evaluate its condition as it ages. If the current rig does not flex out of column I see no reason to add spreaders which produce both, more, windage and weight to the rig. The current rig seems a bit iffy without a second set of spreaders but, one would assume that the stick is aluminum. The metal mast does reduce column foreshortening by virtue of the fact that it does not shorten, under load, as wood will. If you go wood then, you would be wise to add the spreaders. A fractional rig would then be a better choice as it is easier to keep the jib and or forstay sag to a minimum.
    Jay
    Jay,

    The current stick is indeed aluminium - about a ton of it. What it lacks in spreaders, it makes up for in diameter. I was thinking of more spreaders only if one switched to a lighter mast. As John says though, probably better places to spend money for now - like new sails! I have, though, heard of some fairly dramatic results in terms of changes to heeling moment from people switching to synthetic rigging, and I was toying with the idea of making up some stays for her myself, inspired by a great synthetic rigging thread posted in the B&R forum not so long ago...

  12. #47
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    If a new mast is in your future, you might consider carbon fiber. Here you can both reduce diameter and weight as well. A second set of spreaders may be needed though. A full batten main with a rooster batten at the head may also be in your future. Easier to reef and certainly more efficient than the old rig. I have synthetic running backs on my own boat and they are now five years old and as good as the day I set them up.
    Jay

  13. #48
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    If a new mast is in your future, you might consider carbon fiber.
    Jay
    There’s an interesting exercise for you while the boat’s still in NZ and you’re playing with ideas Tom. Not to suggest you jump into doing it straight away, but it’d be interesting to compare the options and costs for carbon fibre spars between NZ and Oz. There are certainly well reputed carbon fibre spar producers here now but NZ seemed to be first off the mark in this technology and companies like Kilwell and Southern Spars in NZ seem to have established a pretty good name in that field.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  14. #49
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    They only get squirrelly when driven past hull speed under kite, you don't do that cruising and you don't need to do that if you don't want to.
    Its a nice age of boat too in that they don't have the humps and bumps that came a bit later , still nice fair hulls. They had big rating restrictions on their rigs so often ended up with some weird mainsail things going on , invariably a bit small and with giant genoas. Often that became corrected later as they dropped out of the racing fleet . Slightly longer boom and or taller masts for a better jib/ main area balance.
    Well said!

  15. #50
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    She's a stunning boat; well done.

    On the storage issue; as someone who just moved from Canberra I have to say I loved Batemans, although like any place on the south coast it can get tricky. You can anchor overnight at the Tollgate Islands when the weather is right, where there is great snorkelling, sea caves you can take a dinghy through, clear water, etc. Just to the north are deserted coves with roos bouncing by. It's open to the south, but then you can go up the river. Within 10 miles north and south there are other anchorages, ranging from the ends of Durras beach, to the surprisingly good anchorage off Broulee or the river at Moruya.

    We've now moved and the boat is in Port Stephens, which is wonderful - but I still miss BB.

    As John says, this vintage of S&S boat is fine downwind when not driven to excess. I once spoke to the enormously successful and experienced Lou Abrahams, who had a similar 42 footer, who said that it was initially very easy to handle downwind - it was only when the boom was shortened to tweak the rating that she became a handful. If you take a hit in light wind speed, you could dump the #1 headsail and just use a 105% overlap #3 headsail which would make the boat very easy to handle.

    I'm not sure I'd worry about reducing rig weight - this generation were very powerful and stable boats.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    +1 to Larks - Boats is for using first IMHO
    dreaming and maintenance should be consequent on the experience - not the other way round ....
    Bay of Islands did you say? Save your pennies and stress and grab your chance to bask in the perks of being stuck in bludi 'berra by swanning over to our other offshore dominion for your jollies!
    ps. Yer only young once!

  17. #52
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    She's a stunning boat; well done.

    On the storage issue; as someone who just moved from Canberra I have to say I loved Batemans, although like any place on the south coast it can get tricky. You can anchor overnight at the Tollgate Islands when the weather is right, where there is great snorkelling, sea caves you can take a dinghy through, clear water, etc. Just to the north are deserted coves with roos bouncing by. It's open to the south, but then you can go up the river. Within 10 miles north and south there are other anchorages, ranging from the ends of Durras beach, to the surprisingly good anchorage off Broulee or the river at Moruya.

    We've now moved and the boat is in Port Stephens, which is wonderful - but I still miss BB.

    As John says, this vintage of S&S boat is fine downwind when not driven to excess. I once spoke to the enormously successful and experienced Lou Abrahams, who had a similar 42 footer, who said that it was initially very easy to handle downwind - it was only when the boom was shortened to tweak the rating that she became a handful. If you take a hit in light wind speed, you could dump the #1 headsail and just use a 105% overlap #3 headsail which would make the boat very easy to handle.

    I'm not sure I'd worry about reducing rig weight - this generation were very powerful and stable boats.
    Chris,

    Thanks for chiming in - I was hoping you would. Your posts are always very well-informed and I'm sincerely glad to hear your good opinion of Kishmul.

    Great tips regarding Batemans, I'll file those away. A lot of my cruising (mostly on a little 1950s couta boat converted to power) has been in the d'Entrecasteaux Channel, Derwent and Huon Rivers in Tasmania, where there's an abundance of semi-sheltered cruising grounds - tends to make the exposed south coast of NSW look a bit intimidating. With her NZ offshore racing heritage, I'm confident Kishmul is more than up to the task, but as for myself...

    Sounds like your understanding of IOR sailing characteristics is consonant with John B's and Hugh's. At the moment her headsail is on a furler but, embarrassingly, I'm not sure what number it is. Definitely not a #1 - I suspect #2. Sadly, I'll not have the opportunity to sail her before she gets put away for the year, but when the time comes to put her back in and replace some rigging, I'll keep downwind 'manageability' strongly in mind.

    Any idea how IOR boats handle on a broad reach? I wonder if a smallish gennaker tacked to the bow might be a good investment some ways down the line...

    Frank - good advice!

  18. #53
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    I didn't get to sail Cliff's Catalina on a reach, but did Pac-Cup in a similar vintage Gary Mull design with a fair amount of time on a broad reach, This was a Kalik 40 with a flatter run aft and she'd surf like mad on a following sea but was never a problem 'til the wind shifted aft sufficiently that we'd start taking the nightly knock-downs. after three we'd drop the 'chute, wing out the jib and sail the rhumb line just for a bit of respite at night when you're gybing back and forth trying to stay in front of the squalls to get more wind. But that was hard pressed indeed and we were running well past hull speed much of the time.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightwater View Post

    Great tips regarding Batemans, I'll file those away. A lot of my cruising (mostly on a little 1950s couta boat converted to power) has been in the d'Entrecasteaux Channel, Derwent and Huon Rivers in Tasmania, where there's an abundance of semi-sheltered cruising grounds - tends to make the exposed south coast of NSW look a bit intimidating. With her NZ offshore racing heritage, I'm confident Kishmul is more than up to the task, but as for myself...
    Step by step, a few years time you will be all over it :-)

  20. #55
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    Default Re: What Have I Done

    stunner
    Re-naming straits as necessary.

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