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Thread: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

  1. #1
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    Default Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    So, just got home with this 2GM20.












    I have yet to download or obtain a manual. It is obvious those zincs have been working, are those zincs part of the nut, or do they screw on like some of the pencil anodes?
    I have heard the stories of the water pump being in a bad spot, no joke, has there been a workaround or mods to change location?
    Have not found a sump nut, i suppose im supposed to suck the oil via the dipstick hole?

    Any reccomendations for flushing the cooling system? Its been hardly used on brackish, Baltic water, but i would prefer to do it now before it goes into storage.

    Engine mounts not yet collapsed, looks a bit of life left in them. What have people used as replacements, looking for reccomendations.

    Exhaust elbow is not what i expected looking at some pictures, the block has 4 tapped holes, but the elbow has only 3 mounting bolts, so im not sure if this is original? Its in good shape.

    Its an old 1994 motor, but allegedly done only several hundred hours, it was laid up in a boat unused for several years, correctly stored, and been in use last season without any faults except the boats new owner feels the need to power upwind at 7 knots in a gale......and 16hp is not doing it for him.......it might have had something to do with the 2 blade prop he threw in with it. Anyhoo, must be some past or present owners here, so all service tips and things to look out for or any good mods you know of, im interested. I got a Martec fresh water cooling system with it also, which has an electric pump, i need to do my homework about that. Not a big issue boating on a fresh water lake, but perhaps a closed system with anti freeze will be beneficial? How do gaskets hold out with long term exposure to antifreeze.....or is that a daft question given car blocks seem to survive just fine? Thanks in advance.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Ian

    I had an older version 2GM at one time and from memory:-
    are those zincs part of the nut, or do they screw on like some of the pencil anodes?
    They are screw in pencil anodes.
    Have not found a sump nut, i suppose im supposed to suck the oil via the dipstick hole?
    No sump plug so out through the dipstick hole. Tip, use a piece of copper pipe attached to the plastic suction hose in order to get the most oil out.
    I have heard the stories of the water pump being in a bad spot, no joke, has there been a workaround or mods to change location?
    Easiest to take the whole assembly off to change the impeller. Some owners kept a complete water pump assembly as a spare for quick changes.

    All in all, a good engine. Cheaper on parts than Volvo, but there again what isn't. Other than changing oil, filters, impeller, anodes and belts no problems in 5 years.

    Nick

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Have spent a lot of time with a 2GM20F. On that engine, it is far easier to take of the raw water pump, 2 bolts, and loosen the hose clamps, so you can spin the pump and gain access to the impeller. It’s actually quick and easy to do.

    Also, I think the engine holds all of 2 qts +/- of oil, and the dipstick hole is a straight shot to the bottom of the pan so sucking out the oil is easy as well. That said I still want to use thumb screws on whoever designed the oil filter attachment/location.

    Your exhaust elbow is foreign to me. On ours, it is the main cause of engine running problems when it gets coked up.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I've had a 2GM15 in my J-30 for twenty years with zero issues. There is some very good information here: http://j30.us/blog/?page_id=356 much of which will translate just fine to your 2GM20. This may be useful, too: http://j30.us/files/Yanmar-2GM20-Parts-List.pdf
    Good engines! G'luck with yours!

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Here's the workshop manual for download: http://www.albinballad.co.uk/wp-cont...shopManual.pdf

    As far as I know that's the correct exhaust elbow for raw water cooled engines. Check it carefully, they like to rust at the inner weld. I think the other holes are only used with the heat exchanger when fresh water cooled.
    For flushing I like to use following method: first run a bucket of fresh water with your favorite dish detergent in a closed loop until warm. This removes any oil and grease that might be present in the system (it usually is). Then flush with a bucket of clean water. Next run a closed loop with a bucket of water with a descaler. The cheapest descaler for raw water cooled engines is citric acid (available at any supermarket). Run until hot (or use hot water to begin with if available) and let sit for half an hour. Flush with clean water and winterize if needed. Repeat any step until clean. If you plan to convert to fresh water cooling either use another descaler (acetic acid for example or a comercial descaler for boilers) or flush with hot water afterwards. Citric acid forms a salt wich disolves in hot water and is fine with raw water cooled engines since it gets removed during normal operation. In closed loop systems it must be removed with previously warmed water. If you covert it to closed loop cooling run it on antifreeze, like a car engine.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    The exhaust elbow that gives trouble is an upside down "U" shape. You don't appear to have one.

    I've twice heard of them giving problems (smoking) if you fill to the top mark on the dipstick. That depends on the dipstick of course, but measure the oil going in and see how far up the stick it goes.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I have a different Yanmar (4JH3E) - but it uses the dipstick tube for oil draining. I got a $75 electric pump*, added some plastic hose that's a snug fit over the tube & have found that at most it leaves 2-3 tablespoons in the crankcase. Loosen the filler cap to give space for air to enter into the engine while pumping it out - otherwise it builds up a vacuum & will not get all the oil.

    The one I got runs both ways - so I pump out into an old oil jug & then switch the hose to a new jug & pump the new oil in. Even with the engine below the cabin sole, an oil & filter change is about 15 minutes with this setup. Note that the price I mention was 10 years ago or so - it's probably higher now.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Thanks Nick, copper pipe is a good idea.

    Thanks SailAR, i found some more info on the elbow, it was in fact an original item, and the only issue i have heard is that some might weep from the bottom and cause corrosion, this one is solid with no sign of leakage.

    Hugh, thanks for those links, shall follow those up.

    Rumars, thanks for the flushing tips. the Martec system needs some stuff mounted on a bulkhead some place, which might have me scratching my head about install. This boat is still on paper, but access to everything is essential and location can be moved fwd or aft to well over a metre, if desired. I shall flush it out reguardless and anti freeze it for the time being.

    Hywl, i was expecting to find the elbow you are thinking of, and i have heard the rot stories. I have also seen replacement elbows of this type in stainless for not an excessive amount, unlike the price of the type you were thinking of from Yanmar....OUCH!

    Garret, thanks, not much oil in this little twin, i should be able to mount a small brass manual pump somewhere. Im tempted to drop the sump, just to check whats in the bottom, hopefully nothing, but i would get some peace of mind knowing that for sure before storing it.

    Have to agree that a second water pump would be a lot easier to fit in situ, and a remote oil filter kit might be worth looking into also, no matter how much you try, oil running down the engine on these side installed filters always happens, be nice to avoid that. Thanks all.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Anyone know off hand how fine the filter mesh is before the injection pump? Im considering 2 extra pre-filters, so will need to size the mesh accordingly. Im hoping pre-polished fuel going into a seperate header/day tank will avoid fuel issues.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    ....Garret, thanks, not much oil in this little twin, i should be able to mount a small brass manual pump somewhere. Im tempted to drop the sump, just to check whats in the bottom, hopefully nothing, but i would get some peace of mind knowing that for sure before storing it....
    On a used motor I would absolutely drop the pan & thoroughly clean it!

    As far as fuel filtration goes - there is no such thing as fuel that's too clean. I run a Racor + the factory filter. The factory filter never gets any crud that I can see - but the Racor (which is closer to the tank) sure does! It'll get some water (condensation) as well.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    There's two philosophies. I'm like Garrett and I think the fuel getting to the engine filter should be clean. I like 10 micron Racors, I think CAV's are more popular in Europe. Some people go as low as 3 micron.

    Some people think the engine filter should do some of the filtering load.

    I like day tanks, but remember that the excess fuel being returned to the tank is hot and one of the purposes of the excess fuel is to cool the injectors, so your day tank has to be big enough to dissipate the heat.

    Last night I did not notice that your engine is direct cooled I think the exhaust riser problem is only for heat exchanged engines.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I recently come across someone on a Facebook group who was slagging off (no other way to put it) , Delphi filters such as these, saying they had no place on a boat....



    I have had tractors, vehicles and boats fitted with these and no issues, so apart from filteration size that can be stepped down with a few units, with water separation, how is the Racor unit so much better that this guy was positively foaming at the mouth? Just ease of draining off any contamination? I am not averse to spending money on a product that is clearly far better, but with an old Furgy tractor that run 53 years on the same injection pump with only a few filters including the above, i do not see what he thought was wrong with them.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    They're no better, as far as I know. They do have a larger water trap.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Now it's my turn to be with Gareth

    A good quality filter is a good quality filter. As long as you've had good experience with a brand, go with it! The one you show looks as if it'll do pretty well in a marine environment. As he said, there's a little less room for water separation, but shouldn't be a big deal is your fuel is clean.

    Why a day tank? Why not just run straight from the main tank to the engine & vice-versa for the return line? I don't see what a day tank gets you unless there's a big height difference between the tank & the engine - which is usually hard to do on a boat...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I had the Yanmar dealership as part of my boatyard, and these GM engines will run and run, the usual problem is that they are babied by their owners-not propping correctly and running at the bottom end of rpm’s, that and just typically running out the marina and shutting her off to start sailing. Diesels want to be under load and worked hard, they will live longer.
    Most of the engines we sold and worked on had the inverted ‘U’ cast elbow, they raise the injection point in the exhaust making it easier to have proper down slope to the muffler. The so called problems with this part is that they have a max safe life of 5 years, in typical light yacht use. Changing the stainless one you show will require a different cast elbow to the head.
    We had an owner come to the shop asking us to look at his 2GM20F as another yard had condemned the engine, while it would start it had no power/torque and barely reached 1,000 rpms, smoked horrible, etc. we pulled the exhaust elbow which revealed the hot gas passage had been reduced from 1-1/2” to maybe 1/4”. Replaced this and engine ran perfect.
    You could maybe extend the life of the cast iron elbow by running antifreeze through the raw water side of the cooling system at winter layup, but the real culprit is all the short runs without everything getting really warm.
    If you pull the pan you will see cast circles as part of the reinforcing ribbing, we have drilled and tapped these to allow a 90 degree drain plug to hose fitting installed to hook up to your oil pump. You have the same problem on the little gearbox, and it’s precious emollients need to be changed regularly as well.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I can get the CAV/Delphi with large bowl, and a smaller drain on the next inline filter, or even both large...



    There are a range of filters grades, usually a 296 is 5-8 microns, and i believe the Yanmar filter before the injection pipe is 30 micron.
    Garret, i may run a day tank above the engine that only gets pre-polished fuel. I am yet to decide about main tanks, i may actually be better with 2 small tanks to transfer between for polishing purposes, and the rest of the "tankage" can be in polymer jerry cans. That way, i have permanent fixed tankage for general use without large tanks taking up space. Im pondering all possibilities at the moment, it is easier to drag a 5 gall can ashore in some places than to find a hose, and does allow a certain amount of weight distribution options.

    Paul, thanks for the post. Not sure if its a good idea to drill out the bottom if there is really no "sump" to collect all the crap, if its spread out all over the flat pan, draining from one point will not make any difference than sucking it out the dipstick hole. Oil changes are something i usually do religiously. As this is intended for a "motorsailer", it should get a better life than a usual auxillary, may not be run at full revs, but i understand Yanmar suggesting giving it full advance for 5 minutes every hour if just trolling along, in order to blow out any carbon build up. I think the auto-prop will help to keep the engine "loaded", even at low rpm.

    I would have happily bought another Bukh, but the weight saving for this project could not be ignored, and by many accounts, just as capable of knocking up big hours when maintained.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Isn't "polishing" really just running fuel through a filter or filters possibly several times? Running the fuel through a 10 micron (or whatever) will remove anything over 10 micron on the first pass through - unless the filter is damaged. While I agree that you don't want tanks that are so big that fuel sits from one year to the next, I've never seen an advantage to a day tank for the motor. One for gravity feed to a stove makes sense, but, to me, another tank is just something else to have to maintain.

    I too have filled from 5 gal. cans - it can save $ for sure. My brother does nothing but that, as he runs 100% biodiesel.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I guess its just like having a spare. Yes you can polish fuel within one tank by recirculating via grades of filters and water algrometers. I dont see a polyethylene tank as something to be maintained, its either ok or its junk. Having actually removed 3 stainless tanks from 3 different boats that all leaked due to pin hole corrosion, a ruptured bladder tank, and a plain steel tank that was full of rust, i think having 2 small tanks just spreads the risks. It would be a bad hair day to fill your bilge with 200l of fuel due to any kind of failure of a single tank, be it the tank itself or a fitting or pipework issue.

    Im considering the bio fuel thing. Have to look into that, things are a bit difficult in Sweden that often only registered entities can offer to take away recyclable materials. There are no fish n chip shops round this way, and i expect the McDonald franchise has legal obligations. My understanding was you could not store anymore than 80l of fuel at home, unless a registered farm or haulage contractor. I think in the UK it was 1000l allowance.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I'd definitely go with 2 tanks & poly makes sense.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I pumped out the old oil yesterday in prep for flushing both the oil and water system. I note a small detail on another forum about the marks on the dipstick, some engines having marks less than an inch apart, and other sticks, like mine, more like 3in! There was an assumption it might have to do with installation angle. I wont be taking the sump off till i have flushed it, but im guessing the oil pick-up/strainer is at the aft end? Someone suggested the minimum engine angle should be 5 degrees, as its going in a box keel and low shaft angle was a bonus, i would like to keep it as low as possible. Having said that, i do not want to overfill the crankcase, so im taking a guess the bottom mark would be the same on both sticks, and the 3in level would be on an engine installed at a steep angle? If the stated 2 quarts of oil is filled and as long as its above the low on the dipstick, all should be well. Just not heard of different dipstick markers on the same power unit unless fitted with an optional deep sump, which i do not believe was an option on the yanmar.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    *A note about these filters.
    Count the number of places for a possible air leak, note the special square o rings, copper washers, spindly long bolts and assorted pieces that can be lost or broken (glass... really?) during the service (almost 20!) then compare that number to a spin-on filter (one!)
    The filter element can be installed upsdide down. I have been called out to a job more than once only to find exactly that, no fuel can get though.
    Finally, note the name Lucas and their hard won reputation for reliability. Those damned things are hateful and have no place on any machine, especially a boat.




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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Thanks Jake. The Lucas- CAV-Delphi are all pretty much the same. I have not seen a screw on cartridge with a clear base, i want a visual check for water. I agree with all the possible leak points, can not say it has been any issue on the Furgy. If you know a better one, feel free to post.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Another link that may be of interest if you don't already have it: http://www.motoren.cloudns.cx/pdfs/y....gm-series.pdf

    Also: http://www.motoren.cloudns.cx/Engines.html
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I like these... I call them the glass box or Stanadyne type!
    But all the major filter manufacturers make them.
    Theyndo not leak, you can see everything, air leaks, water or crap in the fuel and whether or not the thing is bled... 10 seconds on and off for replacement.
    Typically a bulkhead mount, some are mounted directly on the side of larger engines and are standard equipment on John Deere and some Caterpillar machines. They are available as strictly a water seperator or a micron rated combination water separator/fuel filter. (Dont screw up and put a water serarator for the filter. It is easy to see the difference internally. Check with Yanmar for the correct micron rating dor your injection system.
    The older, direct injected engines typically do not need as fine a rating as the newer electronic common rail systems).
    You can gang them up. The base (sold seperately) has provision for mounting at various angles, some have different thread styles depending on OEM application and they all have provision for a drain cock. You will have to fabricate a bracket for the base.
    You can buy the elements in a box of six from Amazon, eBay, etc.


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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Wix 33370 is the combination filter/water separator element, note the pleated filter element inside. (The stand alone water separator is empty inside)

    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 04-11-2018 at 11:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    As Gareth noted, returned fuel is hot. This doesn't help cool the injectors and also provides less energy ( due to expansion) so efficiency drops. By returning hot fuel to a main tank and running off a day tank, you avoid both problems.

    Probably not applicable to sailing yachts, but on the big sportfishermen I run, the tanks are like heat sinks. Stop the boat, or idle down and troll, after running hard for four or five hours and the salon temp rises precipitously for quite some time. The next time your pissed about the powerboat guy running his genset and AC on a mild day, consider that he's not luxuriating as much as trying to overcome the heat from thousand gallons of hot fuel.

    Just sayin.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Thanks for the links, filter info and the idea about returning fuel to a main tank, i did not consider that due to the pump circulating more fuel than consumed. my day tank might have to be increased in size, i am not sure what the flow rate is and can not test that with an unloaded engine. Worthy of more research though, thanks for bringing it up.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    On sailing yacht with a 2gm20 auxiliary , what size day tank would be appropriate ?
    Particularly if the warm return fuel goes to the main tank rather than the day tank.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    On an engine with such small fuel consumption, I would consider a "day tank" an unnecessary complication and a potential (serious) hazard. On small direct injected engines the return lines are there largely to simplify the "bleeding" procedure (i.e. they are "self-bleeding" using the transfer pump)

    Any time there is a "gravity" component in the fuel system you are at risk of a leak, and the potential for fire or fuel discharge. Are they even allowed today?

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    I had a look at a Racor 200, it has as many potential air leak sources as a Delphi filter, but costs 6 times as much and the same grade filters are 4 times as expensive. Whether you spin-on a cartridge or spin-off a securing bolt, i do not see any major issue in time taken to change anything.

    When i mention "day tank", im looking at something around 40l capacity, with another tank of the same size where fuel can be recirculated and then transfered into the "day tank" that will only get clean fuel. I do not want large metal, inacessable tanks that can not be reasonably easy to remove and clean should it be needed. The idea of 2 main tanks is to keep a flow of fresh fuel, rather than a single large tank. No need for either of them to be a "gravity" tank, possibly a small electric pump for fuel circulation within one tank, with a changeover tap to pump it to the engine feed tank. I intend to start off with a 40l tank and move on from there.
    I have had a diesel quit on me twice, both memorable as being on rocky/cliff lee-shores when they quit, one from a broken fuel line, the other from contaminated fuel taken on that morning. As this project is more "motor" than sailor, the fuel issue, for me at least is worth getting fussy over.

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    So i rigged up a fuel can, hand primed upto the the filter and she banged off first push of the button. Took some time to prime the water pump it seemed, despite being a new impellor. Couple of quick vids for those who like such things.


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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!



    It was really quite clean in there. Its life in Baltic water has obviously served it well. It been filled with an anti-freeze mix for the time being. The fuel had some injector cleaner added. The flushing oil was pretty black when pumped out, run time was around 1.5 hours . I will drop the sump now i have a new gasket, just need to find the torque settings, it does not look as though its ever been off, and im a bit concerned about shearing off.
    The mounts are better than i thought. I will drop the mounts off for painting and put the engine away in a crate till its needed.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    So i dropped the pan, which was a bit reluctant to come off. And all seems well...maybe.

    PICT5558.jpg

    Despite moving the vacumn tube around, there was still 15mm (1/2 in +) of oil in the sump. I note the dipstick lands directly behind the back of the oil pick up strainer, so i suspect the tube didnt quite make it all the way past.

    PICT5554.jpg

    No crap, sludge or metal....

    PICT5562.jpg

    But are these forge marks or stress cracks? They dont go through and no visible marks on the outside.

    PICT5564.jpg

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    The Yanmar 2GM20 is a great little engine. The only thing I changed on mine was to add a remote oil filter. The standard location makes changing the filter a controlled oil spill. Conversion parts are readilly available.
    Dave

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    Default Re: Yanmar 2GM20 owners past and present please report!

    Regarding the Yanmar engine mounts, I would lean towards replacing them. They typically fail in two ways. One is shearing of the rubber from the steel. And Two, they have “sunk” where the top “U” metal almost touches the flat bottom steel.
    With a new installation/engine, Yanmar recommends realignment after 50 hours to check for the normal small initial sagging.
    Oh, and check the numbers on the mounts, Yanmar has a guide for placement of the correct mount, typically the larger number pair goes aft. There were some of the much older “Y” series that had different mounts Port and starboard.

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