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Thread: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

  1. #36
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    Default Annabelle SOF build: Gunwales and what not

    Images:
    I can see them now. They're links instead of embedded images but if I click on them, they load.
    I've found loading images from Tapatalk to be easier, provided I shot them on my phone, which I usually do for the convenience.

    And yes, taking breaks has been good to avoid getting too frustrated as a first time builder.

    Wood flour & silica have arrived.

    Skin is ordered

    Next steps.
    • Layer up, Screw & glue Gunwales
    • Screw & glue Upper Chines inner sections
    • Screw & glue Upper Chines outer sections
    • Screw & glue Lower Chines
    • Patch/scarf cracked inwale.
    • Order boat hardware


    Ed

  2. #37
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    Port gunwale first of three layers, screwed and glued into place.

    Ed

  3. #38
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    Starboard gunwale layers 1 & 2.

    Plastic wrap from u haul to keep the epoxy from bonding to the clamps. Doesn't prevent glue from leaking out.

  4. #39
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    Port gunwale layer 2 epoxied into place.
    Inner layer of the upper chines screw & glued in place.
    All 4 lower lower chines screw & glued in place.

  5. #40
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    Default

    Port gunwale 3rd of 3.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    How you gonna deal with the first chine down from the gunwale - being set so far into the frame?


  7. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    How you gonna deal with the first chine down from the gunwale - being set so far into the frame?

    Excellent timing on the question...

    The upper chines are made from two layers, each about 1/2" thick. I just put on the outer (2nd) layer of the starboard upper chine.

    Ed

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    I'm enjoying the pics, thanks for posting.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Great answer.
    Is that what Dave specified?
    Looks heavy, but that is a sailboat rather than a kayak.

  10. #45
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    The upper chines from 2 pieces 1"x 1/2" laminated with epoxy is the 2017 version of Dave's directions. I didn't remember if my original directions (2014) had them done this way.

    Finished weight it supposed to be ~60lbs (27 kgs) and I don't remember if that's with or without sailing hardware. So for a kayak, yes, heavy. For a 10' sailing skiff, not bad, from what little I know.

    Ed
    Last edited by gt7599a; 08-02-2018 at 09:33 PM.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    Great answer.
    Is that what Dave specified?
    Looks heavy, but that is a sailboat rather than a kayak.
    I have been doing chine battens and sheer clamps like that whenever there is a risk of anything breaking. It also puts way less loads onto the frame, so things are less likely to shift out of alignment, stronger too.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Everything is at risk of breaking.
    No question laminating two pieces in place gives a better chance of making the desired curvature.

    My actual question was how the chine as manufactured compares in size to the designers callout.

    Double everything and a boat gets heavy and slow and difficult to move around.
    Some "improvements" actually are not.

    On some SOF boats there is a real possibility that the bending load in the member (particularly gunwales) can distort the boat - obviously the reason Dave started with pre-bending and evolved to laminated. Its a great idea.
    Last edited by upchurchmr; 08-03-2018 at 07:51 AM.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Quote Originally Posted by upchurchmr View Post
    My actual question was how the chine as manufactured compares in size to the designers callout.
    Those upper chines are 1" /.25dm square, as per the specs. They needed to be stouter than the others to help resist sailing stresses, and that makes for stronger seat support as well.
    They are laminated for all the reasons you guys have come up with. The boat is short and the curves are relatively tight, after all.


    Built to plan, and suppressing the urge to add extra floorboards, she should weigh a bit less than 60lbs/27kgs - not including the spars or foils.

    Ed - I'm following closely. No pressure.

    Dave
    Last edited by DGentry; 08-03-2018 at 09:16 PM.

  14. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGentry View Post
    ...

    Ed - I'm following closely. No pressure.

    Dave
    Dave, I'll try and do you proud.

    Port side, upper chine 2nd layer in place.

    I did a video fly by this time.
    https://youtu.be/lqgXxDubN_4

    Dad's ordering more Irwin quick clamps on eBay. He likes the old ones better, and I don't blame him. I've used almost all of his on this build.

    Ed

  15. #50
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    Lots of sanding to clean up leaked epoxy. You may have noticed blue-greenish plastic wrap on the gunwales and occasionally the upper chines. While it keeps the clamps clean and not stick to the boat, you can't clean and smooth expiry before it dries. I'd use less next time.

    I'll update with (relevant) tomorrow. Off to sleep.

    But before I go... Go this at auction today. Its a CLC 17' Kayak, with life vest, skirt and a light wood/carbon fiber paddle.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Actually, you can clean up leaked epoxy before it dries.
    It just takes lots of time and attention.
    Filling the epoxy to where it is thick helps a lot. Of course you have to first coat the surfaces with unfilled epoxy before lumping on the filled stuff.

    In spite of the aggravation, it is still a good method for bonding the joints.

  17. #52
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    Sorry, I didn't write clearly.
    My point was that wrapping the joints in the plastic wrap prevented me from cleaning up the wet epoxy before it dried. And it provided no benefit except keeping the epoxy off the clamps, so I should have used a lot less.

    Ed

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    My misunderstanding.

  19. #54
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    No progress recently, but here is what she looks like after the sanding mentioned above.

    Ed

  20. #55
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    A little more sanding.

    Marking the transom for cuts... Looks like mounting this is going to be trickier than I thought. Might need two pairs of hands.

    Question for Dave (or any others who've done this):
    Just to verify, does the keel abut the transom or pass through. It seems like it should abut, but that's not explicit anywhere.

    Thanks
    Ed

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Quote Originally Posted by gt7599a View Post
    A little more sanding.

    Marking the transom for cuts... Looks like mounting this is going to be trickier than I thought. Might need two pairs of hands.

    Question for Dave (or any others who've done this):
    Just to verify, does the keel abut the transom or pass through. It seems like it should abut, but that's not explicit anywhere.
    It should be easy to mount, actually - a strap or line can squeeze the gunwales together with the transom in between. The main thing when hanging the transom is to prop everything up so that is doesn't sag under its own weight while the glue cures. Propping it up an inch or two higher than seems necessary would help, too, as springback is a thing.

    We are offering digital plans for Annabelle now - here's the drawing for the transom.
    Annabelle transom - small.jpg

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    I built the frame for Dave Gentry's Ruth last year, the transom was the most difficult aspect.
    Having only one pair of hands available I used a workmate with a 3x2 and a clamp to position the transom. The bottom of the 3x2 was clamped to a concrete block.
    In my case I cut the chines etc. flush with the transom, as the lower chines meet the keel making notches awkward, however on Annabelle they are spaced out so should not be a problem.
    DSCN3145.jpg
    Last edited by oldcodger; 08-10-2018 at 02:03 AM. Reason: note re concrete block

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Want to suggest some ideas.
    The first is about mounting the transom.
    You can make temporary frames that will help you align things. U shaped blocks clamped to the transom help a lot. Once a stronger is placed in U, you can see it shut without screwing in the stringer itself.
    (On our Shenandoah Whitehall we did it the brutal way, butted the stringers on the ply from which we had rasped off the Melamin later and screwed through the stringers into the transom. Worked either way).

    My second suggestion is just about aesthetics. Have you considered rounded scupper blocks? It's a little more work, can be done in some different techniques but looks much more pleasant (to my eyes) on the finished gunnels. I've only done it in my 7th boat and I will definitely do it again if I built a scupper block gunnel.
    I used a Forstner bit on the drill press to make the rounding, rounded the edges on the holes (that will be the bottom of the block, the top gets routed out once the gunnels are faired), cut the blocks on the band saw (edit... circular saw...that's the 3mm space between the Forstner holes).

    F815JL5J81V073N.LARGE.jpg

    thats how it looks finished.
    F4U62WAJ81V07WY.LARGE.jpg
    FBSQT3GJ81V07XL.LARGE.jpg

  24. #59
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    Excellent suggestions to mount the transaction on a frame. I also really liked the suggestion for preparing chine spacers with rounded cut outs.

    Got the transom mounted and epoxied yesterday.

    Lessons learned

    - A Transom mounting bracket is very helpful. Make sure you get it the right spot, right angle and that it doesn't move. Mine moved back about 3/4". I caught it I time.
    - Label the bow and stern of the transom with masking tape before cutting notches, this should keep you from discovering near the end you've flipped it at some point going back and forth. (Facepalm)
    - Don't try and cut with a (electric) jig saw while the transom is mounted to the mounting bracket, the chines and gunwales get in the way of accurate cuts.

    - Cut small then shape with file/rasp to match the angle of the chines as they come through the transom. I had access to a fine flat (as opposed to rounded) wood rasp that was smooth (no teeth) on one of the narrow sides that was very helpful for this. I could adjust to the angle of channel to match the chine while only rasping with the long face of the rasp.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    For notches in plywood an oscillating tool and a Powerfile come very handy. You can also use it for dive cuts.

  26. #61
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    The file/rasp had a "safe edge", I just learned the correct term the other day.

    Chives and gunwale through transom cut smooth.

    Keel, screwed & glued.



  27. #62
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    Keel cut flush to transom
    Keel and chines sanded flush

    Starting to get transom-keel knee & quarter knees ready to screw and glue. Quarter knees weren't for symmetrical so tried to fix that too.

    Ed


  28. #63
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    Inwales... Ugh.* Feels like a chicken & egg problem.

    Dave recommends intakes then spacers.

    I couldn't figure out how I was going to get the*spacers in without scrapping of all the epoxy...


    unfortunately, because of my gunwale placement, to get the inwales to match the gunwale height they won't be sitting on the notches in the frame.**


    Inwales were pre bent, one had partially*cracked so I filled it with epoxy and clamped it that section*(essentially scarfing with a bend) which will make this next part easier on one side.


    So,

    Fitted the inwale

    I placed the spacers,*

    I added some spacer under the breast hook to counteract twisting on*the inwales

    Adjusted the inwales

    I re-placed the spacers,*

    Trimed the highest part of the frames to the right width, (thin*flush cut saw is nice for this)

    I re-placed the spacers,*

    screwed the inwales to the frames,

    screwed the spacers to the gunwale from the gunwale side, (on further reflection, I should have come from the inside out, less weakening*of the gunwale).

    Take it all apart

    Screw and glue spacers

    Screw and glue inwales


    But the inwales didn't go exactly where they had been earlier and now quite a few spacers aren't proud like they were when I placed them...* thus Dave's recommendation to place them last.


    One side done...


  29. #64
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    One thing I am happy with is how I applied an idea from forum member heavyweather on rounding scuper blocks (the spacers in between gunwale and inwales)

    My wood stock we already cut to widthso I couldn't do exactly what he did.

    I started with a jig and drill press, but that was producing too much tear out in the end grain. I was using a 1.5" Forsner (sp) bit which may have been my issue.

    My dad's work shop has a oscillating sander so I made a jig to keep the spacers lined up straight on the sanding wheel and that did the trick, no tear out.

    For the frames, I made a few extra spaces and am notching them out and covering where the frames come up (and don't quite meet the top of the inwales and gunwales.)
    I think this should look a little bit nicer and cover my goof with frames not coming flush to the gunwales and inwales

    The notched spacer also makes a great jig to cut the frame to the exact width...pity I only figured that out on the second inwale.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Looking good, great pics!

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Ed's Dave Gentry Annabelle SOF build

    Turned out nice.
    Love the oscillating sander.

    Not my idea though, just found it in the Internetz myself.
    http://www.michneboat.com/Gunwales.htm

    The rounding might not be enough for routing the inner corners but sanding with a drill and some sandpaper will work too.

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