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Thread: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

  1. #1
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    Default Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Dear all,

    I decided to do an estimate on costs for a first time build project, just to get a rough idea on budget along with some sources for wood and materials for the project, I already got stuck, subject being not plywood but "marine grade" plywood.

    Does anybody happen to know a source in the Netherlands or nearby for marine grade plywood? Similar for boat building supplies, screws, nails, etc. Where to find nice oar locks, went for a rowing dinghy, fancy one. Preferably with prices and ordering online.

    What exactly is the difference or makes it marine grade?

    Wood commonly used for the building jig? Besides mahogany, teak and other luxury options.

    Other than that, two subjects on which I am looking to order a book. One being lofting, second clinker or lapstrake boat building. Personal preferences or positive experience, books that I should avoid?

    I want to avoid spending money on dodgy materials and or books, already had to send an entire stack of poorly ordered wood to the dumpster (practically broke in half just picking it of the floor). I really don't want to make that mistake again and materials from the local home decoration or diy markets seems like the more expensive way to go, incorrect in terms of materials but perhaps I'm wrong.

    Cheers!
    Remko

  2. #2
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    Default Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Well, since Bruynzeel, who makes some of the best marine plywood in the world, is headquartered in Zaandam, it shouldn't be to difficult.

    http://www.bruynzeelmultipanel.com/p...s/search/cid/3

    These guys seem to be Bruynzeel retailers. They're in Arnhem.

    https://www.af.nl/voorraad/plaat/

    Looks like a sheet of 8mm Okoumé (Bruynzeel Hechthout) runs about EUR 81 exclusief BTW (ex-VAT).
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  3. #3
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    Default Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    As far as chandlery bits go, I dunno about the Netherlands, but Toplicht in Hamburg (http://www.toplicht.de/en/index/) or Classic Yacht, just across the channel from you in Suffolk (https://www.classicmarine.co.uk) can set you right.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Took a closer look at the plan, my mistake, it asks for red cedar strakes, not plywood.

    Other than that, bruynzeel, already have a sink with that name on it and would prefer other suppliers. If there are any.

    Thanks anyway, I'll keep looking. No rush.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Don't confuse Bruynzeel Keukens with Bruynzeel Multipanel.
    Both are part of the Bruynzeel holding but for the rest completely different organisations. Bruynzeel ply is simply good. I got mine from Pontmeyer(.nl)

    van Meer in Harlingen (www.scheepswinkelvanmeer.nl) carries Toplicht. Do ask for their catalogue!

    My favourite supplier for 'special wood' is Masave in Zwolle (www.facebook.com/MasaveHout/). Rick is a very pleasant and approachable person and he'll be happy to help you find what you need. I know because he did a wonderful job for me.

    edit: I just saw the big red 'read this before you post, ignore it at your own peril'-sign:
    I have no commercial interest in any of these businesses, I'm just offering personal experiences.
    Last edited by AdB; 03-26-2018 at 06:13 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Here's a great book on lofting
    https://www.amazon.com/Lofting-Allan...vaitse+lofting

    Here's one on lapstrake building
    https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...l_3gs2ivj17o_e

    Marine ply is built to a higher standard than ply used for building construction.

    The main differences are:
    the number of plies, marine ply usually has more plies for a given dimension, making for a more stable material
    the thickness of the plies, marine ply generally has thicker outer plies, which is important if any sanding is needed
    the quality of the plies, marine ply will have much smaller knots, if any, and the inner plies will have no voids
    the type of glue used, marine ply glue is waterproof and should be able to pass a boil/freeze test. Construction grade glue is not waterproof.

    Marine ply is not necessarily more rot resistant then construction ply. Some widely used marine plywoods, like okoume, must be sealed properly to be durable


    As mentioned above Bruynzeel makes excellent marine plywood, possibly the best I've ever seen.

    Beware of no-name ply stamped "BS1088". This stamp used to signify high grade plywood but is now stamped on all sorts of inferior plywood by unscrupulous manufacturers
    Last edited by Dusty Yevsky; 03-26-2018 at 09:43 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    The easiest way to get good materials is to order a kit from one of the many suppliers. The parts will be precut and, depending on the supplier, the package may also include most of the glues and hardware. The couple of times I've priced it out, the kit cost over sourcing and buying everything separately isn't near so much as one might expect.
    -Dave

  8. #8
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    Default Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Remko_ View Post
    Took a closer look at the plan, my mistake, it asks for red cedar strakes, not plywood.

    Other than that, bruynzeel, already have a sink with that name on it and would prefer other suppliers. If there are any.

    Thanks anyway, I'll keep looking. No rush.
    If the plans call for clinker-built, western red cedar planking, your best local alternative is probably European larch (Larix decidua). It is a traditional wood for this purpose, though it's heavier than western red cedar (575 kg / cubic meter versus 370 kg / cubic meter).

    That's offset , at least somewhat, by the fact that larch is some 75% stronger, 50% stiffer, and more than twice as hard as western red cedar... meaning you should be able to reduce the planking thickness, bringing the weight down and still getting a structure of similar strength.
    Last edited by Nicholas Carey; 03-26-2018 at 04:14 PM.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    In your area, wood for molds and other temporary work will likely be low grade pine of some type. Are there any wooden boat associations or groups in your area. (I bet there are.) They will have local sources and advice.

    Whatever wood is used locally will make the most sense.

    But if you chose a plan without knowing whether it was cedar lapstrake or plywood planking, you might have some work to do before you are ready. The local groups can help with that too.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Ga gewoon naar De Bootbouwer. Heeft alles. Tel.050-5073430. Frank

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    In your area, wood for molds and other temporary work will likely be low grade pine of some type. Are there any wooden boat associations or groups in your area. (I bet there are.) They will have local sources and advice.

    Whatever wood is used locally will make the most sense.

    But if you chose a plan without knowing whether it was cedar lapstrake or plywood planking, you might have some work to do before you are ready. The local groups can help with that too.
    Thanks for the advice, I do have some reading and other things todo first. Plans call for cedar, no idea where my head was, also something to fix beforehand.

    Plywood will one day hopefully come in handy for a bigger build (staring at gartsides #112), classic boat bits, shiny oarlocks etc, now I know what they cost, bit of windowshopping is part of the fun.

    Cheers
    Remko

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    Quote Originally Posted by FF View Post
    Ga gewoon naar De Bootbouwer. Heeft alles. Tel.050-5073430. Frank
    I've seen his page, if I remember correctly he did a very nice version of the eun na mara. Definitely doesn't have everything, thanks anyway, will give it another look once I get to the point of actually ordering materials. Hoping to find a source for wood, perhaps a lumber mill that has supplied other boat builders.

    Have to start somewhere.

    Remko

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Materials and books for plywood pram, newbie trying to do an estimate.

    That would have been the simpler option. ��

    But honestly, not all dinghies are alike and the design from Paul Gartside, 80, its the prettiest one imho, also probably the most complicated one, but that's what learning is all about.

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