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Thread: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    What about a Scamp? We really get great weather information these days so you could sail a Scamp in short hops along our coast. There are plenty of places to stop in the right weather - plan accordingly! Quick and economical to build, good strong little boat that can be dragged onto a beach. Tour the Clarence, Myall Lakes, Pt Stephens, Hawkesbury, Sydney Harbour, Gippsland Lakes or go north.

    Assuming you don't want to sail to Tonga.

    Rick


    So you're throwing down the challenge to Scamp it to Tonga? Find me a practical way to make water on that trip and post it in the Romana thread.


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  2. #72
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I don't think you could spend a whole season exploring Twofold Bay unless it included ukelele lessons.

    Rick

  3. #73
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    So you're throwing down the challenge to Scamp it to Tonga? Find me a practical way to make water on that trip and post it in the Romana thread.


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    Those people who paddle kayaks to within a mile or so of NZ must have some sort of small effective water maker, surely?

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I don't think you could spend a whole season exploring Twofold Bay unless it included ukelele lessons.

    Rick


    Sorry, I assumed uke lessons were a given. But you're right, you might want to throw in Merimbula and Pambula, and some land based exploration.


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  5. #75
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?


    How about Glenn L. Witt's Amigo? http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/amigo.html . She's billed as a "trailerable offshore cruiser", but you'd need a good ramp and maybe a trailer tongue extension to launch her.
    I will beg you for advice, your reply will be concise, and I will listen very nicely and then go out and do exactly what I want! (Apologies to Lerner and Lowe.)

  6. #76
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    It's really because it's a long way to Tonga.

    Rick
    I see what you did there. New Caledonia then. Baguettes and cheese...mmmm.

    Norwalk Island sharpie, I like that idea for your extended coastal trips Peter. Hop across the bars and up the estuaries.
    Last edited by John B; 03-24-2018 at 03:28 PM.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    You might consider Alden’s Design No. 297, THUMBCAP. She is a small keelboat with the following dimensions-

    LOA: 21’ plus a boomkin
    LWL: 18’5”
    Beam: 6’6”
    Draft: 2’9”
    SA: 236 ft^2 Yawl rigged with a gunter main
    Disp.: 4000 lbs

    I doubt she'd be at her best to windward, but she's pretty and looks handy and seaworthy. The latter even more so with a few detail changes. Hopefully someone here can post [additional] images from the Carrick/Henderson book.

    Alden Design Listing: http://www.aldendesigns.com/99years/...php?ID=428&s=1

    Photo: http://www.aldendesigns.com/99years/...7_Thumbcap.jpg
    Last edited by Wiley Baggins; 03-24-2018 at 06:27 PM. Reason: Added displacement & links

  8. #78
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I agree the East Coast has many areas of great attraction. It's just all those bars give me the willies. And the current. And the fact that you go from river/harbour to the bloody great ocean in less time than it takes to say "hold my beer". And the fact that navigation consists of keep the cliffs on the left or keep the cliffs on the right. And the shipping. And the fishing boats. And the cray pots, although the waters from about Portland to the Murray Mouth are far worse infested with those bloody things. And the Southerly Buster. I've been in one of those. One thing to consider about a small boat at sea is the challenge of sailing with a short mast in big seas. A long time ago I was sailing my Tumlaren home from a trip to Port Lincoln. We had to time the passage in between cold fronts and gales. Although the wind was light, there were still big old swells running from the previous blow. Each swell dragged the wind behind it, so that each time we went up and down a wave the wind backed 180 degrees. It made for a very slow and frustrating 12 hours or so until a decent fresh wind came in. I imagine that effect would be all the more common and all the more pronounced on an even smaller boat than a Tumlaren.
    Last edited by Phil Y; 03-24-2018 at 04:44 PM.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    That would be a real issue. But, weather information is a lot better now and you could safely do the trip in each weather window. We do get swell but we also get spells of flat seas, in all seasons.

    Rick

    PS If Bruce sails his Scamp to Tonga:
    a) I'm not lending him any gear
    b) I won't watch

  10. #80
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I only lend him gear I don't need to have back again anyway.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by alkorn View Post

    How about Glenn L. Witt's Amigo? http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/amigo.html . She's billed as a "trailerable offshore cruiser", but you'd need a good ramp and maybe a trailer tongue extension to launch her.
    Yes , you are right about the good ramp and trailer extension.
    I launched and retrieved a Grey Seal a number of times , and I certainly needed both.
    And the Seal is nowhere near as deep as the Amigo.
    Another issue in practical terms.
    A lot of these boat ramps launch and retrieve big horsepower outboard offshore recreational fishing boats , that push up big sandbanks back off the ramp a bit.
    So you have to have the ability to push your trailered boat over the sandbar , to get it out.
    And again , to retrieve.
    Or work on a good high tide.
    Rob J.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    As someone above said, the ability to surf in to beach if things blow up is something I hadn't really considered, in that if bars are too bad a beach would be "difficult" and a guaranteed spill...... but at least a beach to walk up. Thanks for the suggestion.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  13. #83
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Thread drift. Let's discuss Tonga somewhere else.
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  14. #84
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    As someone above said, the ability to surf in to beach if things blow up is something I hadn't really considered, in that if bars are too bad a beach would be "difficult" and a guaranteed spill...... but at least a beach to walk up. Thanks for the suggestion.
    +1

    around here if river mouths are breaking beaches are No Go zones, with several lines of breaks, the big ones a half mile off shore and a second break in close to the beach... not an option for our Sail and or Oar craft.

    try landing on this beach...?!


  15. #85
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Actually Daniel that reinforces my desire for a small boat that will live ''outside / offshore'' when getting ashore via river entry or beach is impossible.
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  16. #86
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    interesting, of course Plan A is to avoid bad weather, if your considering plan B as riding it out off shore then there are many variables to consider... I suppose shelter, a place to get out of the elements will be high on the list, self righting from a full knockdown masts in the water/ and or the ability to lower mast-s while at sea. Ability of craft to heave to or run off with tiller lashed... or we might take a page from Centennial Johnsons' play book, he rode out storms in the cockpit steering Centennial down wind, surfing massive waves, with the mast lowered and warps streaming.


  17. #87
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    2 more historic ocean crossing vessels sailed by the famous capt. Howard Blackburn of Gloucester. both likely trailerable with appropriate vehicle.


  18. #88
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I'm with the multi-hull crowd for this. No lead to haul around or sink you. Faster, to beat the weather or happy hour. Flat sailing, more or less. Shallow draft for launching, and for poking up estuaries, beaching and hiding out in little coves. Light enough that only small outboards are needed, and some could be prodded along with a yuloh pretty well.

    Along with the Wharrams and Farriers, the late Thomas Firth Jones had a couple of designs for folding multis that might work for you. They're plywood and seem relatively easy to build.

    A Brine Shrimp could cross an ocean, but more than two people would overload her for such a voyage.
    and

    One can read more about these boats here: http://web.archive.org/web/201106270...:80/index.html and much more about them in his book "New Plywood Boats." One can still get plans from his wife - I have her email somewhere, and she may have a new website up.

    Whitsunday Islands. Just saying.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Back to Eel, there is an old thread: George Holmes' Eel comes out of the shed at Iron Wharf, Faversham about the restoration.
    The yard that restored the Eel has a web page. http://www.alanstaleyboatbuilders.co.uk/ They might have more information about the design.

    Trailering an Atkin Hearts Desire II might be another 5000 lb out of scope proposition. Not so pretty as Eel, but a lot of interior room for the size. Old Motorboating article.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  20. #90
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  21. #91
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    William Garden's version is a beauty too and obviously trailerable too.

    Eel.jpg
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  22. #92
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I am not sure a small multihull is the answer. Larger boats are different on many levels.
    I am also suspicious of complicated mechanics and tech...perhaps it is ok.....
    The point on local geography is a valid one.
    East coast Australia has relatively few safe ports that do not have a bar to cross, and a parallel coastal current to boot....Chris's point is important.
    Weight is a problem for a trailer sailor, so keep that down.
    Trailer draft is an issue so keep it in mind as well.
    One might consider a Paradox inspired boat.....
    For the intended mission, I'd probably side with Chris249 on this...

  23. #93
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    The Eel is a beautiful boat, but I have a hard time accepting it as a candidate for this purpose. The standard design doesn't even have a self-draining cockpit and the boat doesn't accept an outboard very well.

    I've had a couple of boats with outboards hanging off the back of the transom on those spring-loaded brackets and I swear never again. In even a moderate chop, the prop ventilates constantly; on a narrow transom the prop can contact the rudder, and it's always a pain to get the thing up and down. If the craft in question needs to have reliable auxiliary power in a rising sea, it really needs either an inboard or an outboard in a well designed well.
    -Dave

  24. #94
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    How about this one. Wee-Seal-1.jpg

  25. #95
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    the outboard on a bracket on the side or transom can be a problem....they catch air with little encouragement....I have that sort of arrangement, but only attempt to use it in harbour or calm waters. I know some boats are worse for sucking air then others....but it still sucks.
    I like Wee Seal, and would consider it. It is near the limit for trailering, but is a very buoyant easy sailor. Any open boat....cockpit...should have either some sort of closure ( perhaps a fabric "kayak skirt style" clip on cover would do), or be designed to limit or slow the ingress of water....say an enclosed cockpit but it drains into the bilge....one of my boats had that, and I think it was probably manageable for keeping water intake under control.
    Unless the boat is pretty small and/or the seas you are sailing in are typically warm I would not be inclined to consider a "self rescuing",as an option....i'll stay with "keeping the water out".

  26. #96
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Our waters are warm, especially by your standards !
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  27. #97
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    The Eel is a beautiful boat, but I have a hard time accepting it as a candidate for this purpose. The standard design doesn't even have a self-draining cockpit and the boat doesn't accept an outboard very well.

    I've had a couple of boats with outboards hanging off the back of the transom on those spring-loaded brackets and I swear never again. In even a moderate chop, the prop ventilates constantly; on a narrow transom the prop can contact the rudder, and it's always a pain to get the thing up and down. If the craft in question needs to have reliable auxiliary power in a rising sea, it really needs either an inboard or an outboard in a well designed well.
    I'm impressed by Jake's (Canoeyawl's ) solution to this. He has an outboard powerhead inside his Sally , essentially a very light inboard.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  28. #98
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    The 'Brine Shrimp' cat would do everything you're intnding your boat to need to do, in my opinion.
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  29. #99
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    The 'Brine Shrimp' cat would do everything you're intending your boat to need to do, in my opinion.
    I missed that post !
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 03-25-2018 at 03:32 AM.
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  30. #100
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    As someone above said, the ability to surf in to beach if things blow up is something I hadn't really considered, in that if bars are too bad a beach would be "difficult" and a guaranteed spill...... but at least a beach to walk up. Thanks for the suggestion.
    It's not as bad as that. If the bars are breaking and the swell's right up, sure, you're going to have problems landing on most beaches. But it's unlikely you'd be out there in weather like that. More likely is that a big southerly comes up, or a thunderstorm, or a NE picks up beyond what's expected. Such events can render a bar unmanageable, especially if it coincides with a run out tide. But, while there aren't too many harbours to head for on our coast, there are many headlands so, if you have a small enough boat, a cat or Scamp etc., you can duck behind any of many headlands, and beach the boat safely. It's generally true that, until it gets really rough, our beaches will be rough at one end and fairly protected at the other.

    Standing off in a more seaworthy boat is another option, of course, but bear in mind that you could be standing off for quite a while and it's not really something I'd want to do in any trailerable boat.

    Rick

  31. #101
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    The one escape that remains open is around the top end of Moreton Island and into the Bay, not exactly calm but protected from outside.
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  32. #102
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    My Seawind 24 cat was pretty much an overgrown beach cat. When sailing it down the NSW coast I always had an escape bag ready to grab and a target landing spot, if there was one, to run up onto in a worst case scenario. I brought a lot of hang gliding and gliding mentality into sailing. You plan to survive and that means en-route real time situational awareness. That training was beyond valuable. Interestingly, I did early-years hang gliding, gliding, ultralight aircraft flying and light aircraft flying, and the differences in cultures and attitudes between those groups have parallels in boating that I see. It sometimes makes me a difficult person to sail with. But I ain't dead yet.


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  33. #103
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Hang gliding is the only thing my mother made me promise I'd never do.

    Rick

  34. #104
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Peter, it seems like we have pretty similar ideas about the capabilities we want from a boat. I ended up choosing William Atkin's Perigee design, though I have modified a bit by incorporating watertight bulkheads and eliminating the cockpit. She isn't quite finished yet but should be ready for sea trials by the end of this year. A few pics on my web site http://Geoffboat.weebly.com The total trailer weight including trailer will be about 1700kg. Hope my choice turns out to do the job... time will tell.

  35. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Hang gliding is the only thing my mother made me promise I'd never do.

    Rick


    Three people I knew died hang gliding. That tragic fact aside it was a five year stint that involved serious risk assessments and lessons in making decisions in the glare of peer pressure.


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