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Thread: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

  1. #946
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Though i would agree, the fact is, you still HAVE to be willing to ride the roller coaster if you are going offshore or beyond weather forecast range. Peace of mind in a good boat is about as good as you can get "out there".
    I would also agree with Chris that it can be fun, to start with, but if single-handed and a long depression, my adrenaline ran out way before the end and i was left depleted and almost indifferent to the outcome, one has to be mindfull of ones own state of mind, and that can be tricky if one has not slept for 50+ hours.
    This is where the importance of a boat that has the ability to look after itself, and you (while you get the need3d rest), is paramount.
    Something demonstrated by our man Sven Yrvind recently in his little trailer sailer.

    Of course he is on one end of extremes, the other being a craft that requires a heavy duty haul vehicle and trailer, with help from a crane to laugh and rig/unrig at the end.

    Something in-between the examples is the focus here, so I propose that a craft that comes together in components, within size and weight limits that are manageable by the bare handed builders, be adhered to.
    To give this proposal substance, I should probably include a pic of it being done.
    I had better leave this keyboard then and get my butt down the road to the workshop. to laminate the glass cloth onto the decks.
    Last edited by Lugalong; 08-05-2018 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #947
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    This is where the importance of a boat that has the ability to look after itself, and you (while you get the need3d rest), is paramount.
    Something demonstrated by our man Sven Yrvind recently in his little trailer sailer
    Im not sure Sven got the rest he needed from his own account of the motion, and i do not think the extra beam in the new boat is going to make much difference. Having said that, he did at least have a boat that would not sink, even if chopped in half by a drunk fishing trawler, much to be said for that to get a good nights ZZZZ far from land....
    No word on wether Exlex was cut up, or returning to Sweden.

  3. #948
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Im not sure Sven got the rest he needed from his own account of the motion, and i do not think the extra beam in the new boat is going to make much difference. Having said that, he did at least have a boat that would not sink, even if chopped in half by a drunk fishing trawler, much to be said for that to get a good nights ZZZZ far from land....
    No word on wether Exlex was cut up, or returning to Sweden.
    Sure! I have to agree, more than a little more beam would be needed to sort things out for him.

    Much more beam is needed, and is going to cost more than he can evidently afford.
    An add on ballast keel and junk rig would be the better bet, along with a change of route towards the US east coast and a trailer haul over to the Pacific.
    Then he could possibly make his way to Dunedin.

  4. #949
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Today I am thinking a Presto 30 (in wood of course) these are fast, seaworthy and trailerable.

    Last edited by gilberj; 08-07-2018 at 11:03 AM.

  5. #950
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    Sure! I have to agree, more than a little more beam would be needed to sort things out for him.

    Much more beam is needed, and is going to cost more than he can evidently afford.
    An add on ballast keel and junk rig would be the better bet, along with a change of route towards the US east coast and a trailer haul over to the Pacific.
    Then he could possibly make his way to Dunedin.
    I guess we all suffer the same affliction, he could just have bought a junk rigged Corribee and set off, but he has ideas he wants to try, thats all well and good, but his latest idea of using a Lungstrom rig, at the bow instead of a normal jib, has been well proven to have lots of chafe between the sails, so not the kind of thing one would want unless running downwind most of the time. Its a shame JWs Sven thread got buried in the bilge, but his boats are trailerable ocean goers.

  6. #951
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gilberj View Post
    Today I am thinking a Pesto 30 (in wood of course) these are fast, seaworthy and trailerable.
    Much advantage over Whimbrel? A bit lighter perhaps, space for an inboard? Though not specifically designed for offshore, B+B Princess sharpie 26 is supposed to be quite able and not prone to slamming.


  7. #952
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Sounds like the upper end of conditions we typically see on the Oregon Offshore (Astoria, Oregon to Victoria, BC...a feeder race for "Swiftsure"). OK for all up racing, but not the most fun for short-handed cruising. And I wouldn't to be out playing for fun in that with a trailerable boat. Where we run into trouble here is that most of the West Coast is basically a lee shore so when it pipes up, the few "bolt holes" close out pretty quickly.

  8. #953
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    Interesting, I'm beginning to wonder if we might have a confusion of terms... what some here call an "Angry Ocean" may be known in ol' Gloucester Town as a "Full Schooner Breeze" in other words perfect sailing weather.

    also everything is relative, so an "Angry Ocean" on Bass Straight may be nothing more than "a fine sailing day" here on the North Shore.

    Well, a couple on a nearby boat have 200,000 miles of ocean sailing, medals from cruising clubs, experience around Cape Horn and Alaska and multiple British "Yacht of the Year" awards and they say on their website it was the worst seas they have ever experienced. By the way, one of them was a US Navy officer who was, I think, born around your area. There were four Volvo Round the World Race crews there and some of them were quoted (Seahorse magazines etc) as saying it was in some respects harder than anything they met in the Round The World race.


    I'm not getting into hairy chest beating about who sails in the roughest waters, but I think you may be the first person I ever knew to imply that Bass Strait and surrounds were easier than those around NE USA. Certainly the people I know who considerable experience in both areas say the opposite, sometimes using very blunt Kiwi-isms.

    I didn't say it was the worst of conditions, because it wasn't. But any time Round the World racing boats are using storm trysails, it's fairly angry. And yet from some angles it was fun in a 2300 kg (approx) boat with no headroom, and it could be just as much fun in a smaller trailerable boat.
    Last edited by Chris249; 08-06-2018 at 05:16 AM.
    Has BigFella and SkyBlue on ignore.

  9. #954
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Much advantage over Whimbrel? A bit lighter perhaps, space for an inboard? Though not specifically designed for offshore, B+B Princess sharpie 26 is supposed to be quite able and not prone to slamming.

    Whimbrel, my Meadowlark, more than twice the weight of the Presto 30's 3900 lbs which is well enough in the reasonable towing weight. Whimbrel is certainly somewhat roomier. I have looked at the B&B designs and like them but Presto 30 seems a little neater.
    The Presto 30 has watertight, buoyant masts that increase the AVS (angle of vanishing stability) to a very respectable 135 degrees

  10. #955
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    It looks like a quite impressive boat given what i have read. I think i prefer Meadowlarks jib headed rig and conventional booms. I do not know if it is a real issue, but i have read that the square head mains are difficult to flatten with wishbone booms. Interesting to note that they can be well loaded. Appears there is an art in getting the carbon spars right in terms of stiffness and flex to suit different sails......as well as expensive.
    How about the 22ft version Mr Sibley? A lighter and cheaper, faster build than a GG, i would have thought......not that you are in a hurry to get a boat built...

    Last edited by skaraborgcraft; 08-06-2018 at 09:49 AM.

  11. #956
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    It looks like a quite impressive boat given what i have read. I think i prefer Meadowlarks jib headed rig and conventional booms. I do not know if it is a real issue, but i have read that the square head mains are difficult to flatten with wishbone booms. Interesting to note that they can be well loaded. Appears there is an art in getting the carbon spars right in terms of stiffness and flex to suit different sails......as well as expensive.
    How about the 22ft version Mr Sibley? A lighter and cheaper, faster build than a GG, i would have thought......not that you are in a hurry to get a boat built...

    nice sheer line too!

  12. #957
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I guess we all suffer the same affliction, he could just have bought a junk rigged Corribee and set off, but he has ideas he wants to try, thats all well and good, but his latest idea of using a Lungstrom rig, at the bow instead of a normal jib, has been well proven to have lots of chafe between the sails, so not the kind of thing one would want unless running downwind most of the time. Its a shame JWs Sven thread got buried in the bilge, but his boats are trailerable ocean goers.
    Having tried hard to get exactly what drives him, it is understandable why a production keeler doesn't offer the goods.
    Running with the westerlies in the southern O, simply has to be the thing that does it for him, and explains the chosen configuration ( that differs so much from conventional plastic keelers)
    now he seems to have boxed himself in and is maybe running out of options.

    The shallow draught and short rig at the size/ scale he has produced, wants to be launched into the southern O and then be free to follow the wind and seas.
    This kind of endeavour, might justify his choice of sandwich composites construction.
    Pity, though, that he has not stayed with wooden boatbuilding.
    Last edited by Lugalong; 08-07-2018 at 05:37 AM.

  13. #958
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    It is difficult to see how his new design is much different to ExLex... slightly different dimensions, but... I don't get it.

    Notwithstanding, my experience surfing biggish waves in my paradox suggests that the flat bottom design is good in that it is not likely to broach like a conventional keel boat... but this also involves active sailing. Maybe a series drogue would help her look after herself in a big following sea. Following Sven's commentary with interest.

  14. #959
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugalong View Post
    Having tried hard to get exactly what drives him, it is understandable why a production keeler doesn't offer the goods.
    Running with the westerlies in the southern O, simply has to be the thing that does it for him, and explains the chosen configuration ( that differs so much from conventional plastic keelers)
    now he seems to have boxed himself in and is maybe running out of options.

    The shallow draught and short rig at the size/ scale he has produced, wants to be launched into the southern O and then be free to follow the wind and seas.
    This kind of endeavour, might justify his choice of sandwich composites construction.
    Pity, though, that he has not stayed with wooden boatbuilding.
    I believe his catchphrase of "only an imbicile never changes their mind", is quite apt.

    He will be building a full size sailing version in plywood (he says), think i would be inclined to just add the foam on the outside and glass the whole lot, the foam for insulation and bouyancy is definately a good idea for where he intends to passage. Perhaps the plywood hull would mess with his specific weight/loading/range calculations? The 5 mast thing just seems like overkill, what happened to "less is more" direction? I might even go and see the build when it gets further along.

  15. #960
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I believe his catchphrase of "only an imbicile never changes their mind", is quite apt.

    He will be building a full size sailing version in plywood (he says), think i would be inclined to just add the foam on the outside and glass the whole lot, the foam for insulation and bouyancy is definately a good idea for where he intends to passage. Perhaps the plywood hull would mess with his specific weight/loading/range calculations? The 5 mast thing just seems like overkill, what happened to "less is more" direction? I might even go and see the build when it gets further along.

    Foam over the ply on the outside would do it for buoyancy and insulation if high latitude sailing is the object.

    Going along with the box section hull and the associated stability characteristics works so well with plywood as the essential form, I hope he manages to find funding enough to see it through.
    Also, a box section wooden mast with carbon reinforcing looks to be better than multiple all carbon spars- if value for money comes into the picture.
    Then I suppose his previous sprit variations with shorter spars and a staysail does appeal to me.

  16. #961
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    It is difficult to see how his new design is much different to ExLex... slightly different dimensions, but... I don't get it.

    Notwithstanding, my experience surfing biggish waves in my paradox suggests that the flat bottom design is good in that it is not likely to broach like a conventional keel boat... but this also involves active sailing. Maybe a series drogue would help her look after herself in a big following sea. Following Sven's commentary with interest.
    The rudders on ExLex were able to be "toed-in" to act like a brake, but he had steering line problems with that set up, as he explained in his video. I would rather carry a rope-drouge than fuss with the complications of 2 rudders. Im wondering if that large bronze plate he had on the bottom is coming back, or in a skip in Porto Santo?

  17. #962
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    And damned lucky

  18. #963
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Duncan is now past halfway accross the Atlantic rowing his Oughtred St Ayles skiff. Initial Gulf stream assistance looks to be tapering out.

    https://duncanadrift.com/

    Tracker:-

    https://share.garmin.com/JonMonks

  19. #964
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    A number of people have describe the ability of a shallow body hull to slip sideways away from a pushy sea rather than resist the side-slip because of a large deep keel.

  20. #965
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    It is difficult to see how his new design is much different to ExLex... slightly different dimensions, but... I don't get it.

    Notwithstanding, my experience surfing biggish waves in my paradox suggests that the flat bottom design is good in that it is not likely to broach like a conventional keel boat... but this also involves active sailing. Maybe a series drogue would help her look after herself in a big following sea. Following Sven's commentary with interest.
    Interesting from point of view of this discussion( having bottom contours easy for trailering a well as seakeeping); what you say about your experience with a paradox, small boats rock.

    Active sailing in the southern O is what Sven has done in Bris 1, which was not much longer than Exlex, but did have more beam.
    Bernard Moitessier too explains how it was necessary to be steering down big seas ( even in his much bigger Joshua).

    The Paradox configuration includes a large rudder and this no doubt contributes to control when running down waves as you say.

    Sven had restrictions on beam dimensions when he built Bris, and this situation might be similar regarding his nw build.

    For this reason I think that the ballast keel addition which worked on Bris, could be the solution, if it could be made to work with the chine runner type chines and also be earsilly removable for trailering.

    Helping in this direction, would be a big rudder, with endplate.

    At the same time, a simple trim tab/windvane could be included, which would certainly help in all other situations other than running before giant seas.

    This is what did it for me when crossing the North Atlantic. Although, I did have a considerably bigger boat with proportionally much more beam.
    Still, hull section and ballasting was not too very different from a Paradox.......as well. the rig buoyancy was used to prevent inversion when knocked down.

    Ideas behind the above have mostly come from entertaining the thing of building in a restricted space, with beam kept within limits of a plywood sheet ( less than 4', as with Exlex).
    Admittedly, when it comes down to surviving sub zero conditions, I chicken out and rather go with a boat that doesn't need to meet those rigours.
    Good luck to Sven if he simply has to go into the ice.
    Last edited by Lugalong; 08-07-2018 at 03:01 PM.

  21. #966
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    I guess we all suffer the same affliction, he could just have bought a junk rigged Corribee and set off, but he has ideas he wants to try, thats all well and good, but his latest idea of using a Lungstrom rig, at the bow instead of a normal jib, has been well proven to have lots of chafe between the sails, so not the kind of thing one would want unless running downwind most of the time. Its a shame JWs Sven thread got buried in the bilge, but his boats are trailerable ocean goers.
    There will I am sure be another "Sven" thread, I'm looking forward to his next adventure. At 79 though time is not on his side, but he's had an interesting life so far and seems good to carry on for at least one more. I'm hoping to meet him in Dunedin in a couple of years or so.

    On the subject of a "trailerable offshore boat" though. Many of the solutions proposed in this thread dont take into account the off the water constraints in the original post. A smallish tow vehicle, needing to rig, launch and retrieve single handed, and that from a variety of launching ramps some of which may not be "perfect". The need to do all this in a reasonable time both coming and going from the water, its a fair way from the OPs home to the water and if it takes say, an hour and a half to rig and launch, and the same the other way, then together with the driving time to get to the salty there is not much time left to go sailing. I've a small gaff sloop that would fit the bill, not my design, a boat that I sort of inherited, and it takes about that to launch and retrieve, and a daysail is not really on unless I'm at the boatramp at crack of dawn and dont have to head home until late. A few hours on the water is just not worth the effort, a weekend cruise is good, but realistically how often do we get that time free of other commitments? Daysailing is the norm which means easy to tow, quick and easy into the water and out there, and back.
    Offshore capable? We're not talking winter north Atlantic here, we're talking safely surviving an afternoon storm under control, and there are any number of small yachts able to do that.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  22. #967
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Bolger was a strong believer in this concept -- that a shallower hull designed to give to the sea's forces could be perfectly safe as a blue water boat. He designed Sea Bird '86 with this in mind. There were others that employed the same principle. Such designs can definitely be self-righting, too. This boat would be a borderline prospect to trailer, though. No too wide or long at 7'9" x 23', but lots of lead in the shallow keel.
    -Dave

  23. #968

    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    In that category there's Harry Bryan's Katie as well.




    • LOA: 20′
    • Beam: 7′
    • Draft: 20″
    • Displacement: 2400 lbs
    • Power: optional electric outboard motor
    • Capacity: 2 to 6 adults day sailing
    • Sail Area: 261 sq ft
    • Sailing Rig: Gaff
    Peter, do you know anything about the performance of Katie? I keep coming back and looking at her over and over. She's not a double-ender but she fits all the other requirements really well. I wonder how long it would take to build her for someone able to put in 15 hours a week?

  24. #969
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    No, only what I read on Mr Bryan's website. Perhaps you could contact him and ask him then tell us what he said ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  25. #970
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Off Center Harbor has a video about Katie. https://www.offcenterharbor.com/vide...nd-boathouses/
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  26. #971

    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    3.5-4 years.
    Thanks, Daniel.

  27. #972
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    It really depends on your work habits and ability. If you have done it before and know the methods that work and work fast. If you are an experienced woodworker or not. The construction method chosen.

    Lots of variables.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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