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Thread: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

  1. #631
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I bought a Noelex hull and deck to fit out years ago. Then decided it wasnt what I wanted, and probably beyond my capability anyway. So I sold it. Did exceptionally well, doubled my money. Saw the same boat advertised a few years later, still unbuilt. I hope it found the right home eventually.
    interesting... have many Noelex been strip built? the photo almost looks like a glass hull but I could be wrong.

  2. #632
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Small boats rock View Post
    Looking at the Noelex immediately after dreamily looking at Daniel's boat is a bit jarring to the aesthetic senses...
    Yes....one has a tall, easy to handle and efficient rig, lovely clean hull lines and a streamlined keel that slides through the water beautifully, and the other's a boxy dory. :-)
    Last edited by Chris249; 06-11-2018 at 09:57 PM.
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  3. #633
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    interesting... have many Noelex been strip built? the photo almost looks like a glass hull but I could be wrong.
    They are a glass production boat. Like most small runs here I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out there were some timber pioneers built first.

    One for sale and still asking big dollars for its age. That would indicate they're still sought after.
    https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boa...00064014680237

  4. #634
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    They are a glass production boat. Like most small runs here I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out there were some timber pioneers built first.
    Cant believe the asking prices 60-110k! I still think the best trailerable cruiser for Pete is a keel boat. Theres a steel roberts 44 all set up on trademe you could probably get for 50, its got a raft and cat 1 would be easy. Pick that up and head to Vavau- never look back! Nothing in this selection of small boats could prise me off dry land to cross an ocean

    How about a Norwalk Island Sharpie? Modify it for a stayed rig to make it cheaper, super simple to build and if you build it big enough, add water ballast it may well fit your needs. Good mix of classic, home build potential, slightly oddball design elements.

    whatever rocks your boat

  5. #635
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I have no experience with any of the Norwalk Island Sharpies, actually never seen one in the flesh...as it were. I have heard only good things, and now have experienced a vaguely similar modified sharpie. I really like them. Were I building a trailerable sharpie, one of these would certainly be on my list of consideration. The one in the photo, may be a little on the large size but there is quite a range of models of different lengths.

  6. #636
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Norwalk Island Sharpies ....looking again. I've only seen one and it looked a bit big and complicated , but there may be variations.
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  7. #637
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    The NIS23 looks interesting.


    NIS 23 - Kit
    Complete NIS 26 hull for ketch, epoxy sealed inside and out, glassed and Cop R Bote Anti Fouled ready for painting and fitting out.
    Specs ft mm
    LOA: 23' 7000
    DWL: 18'9" -
    Beam: 7'4" 2208
    Draft, Board up: 8" -
    Draft, Board Down: 4'6" -
    Weight: 700kg approx
    Head Room: 5'11"
    (Curved Hatch Option)
    Sail Areas sq m
    Main: 150 -
    Mizzen: 64 -
    Total: 229 -
    Outboard 2/3.5hp Standard Shaft on transom spring bracket.
    Options
    Various internal arrangements, 2 or 4 berth. Enclosed heads. Folding Mast Tabernacle Option. Plans Available for scratch build or as pre cut 'plywood only' kit through to 'Everything you will ever need, including trailer' kit.
    Indicative materials lists and build times. *
    Plywood 4mm, 6sheets; 6mm, 2sheets: 9mm, 33sheets: 12mm, 14sheets: 18mm 8Sheets; 25mm, Sheets

    Solid timber WRC 25x100mm 20metres;25x25mm 140metres; 16x75mm 12metres; 30x180mm 2metres; 65x20mm 64metres.


    Suggested Hours to Build: 1500
    * Approximate data; varies depending on experience and individual work rates and care in material useage.



    Buy Kit

    Special Notice:
    Metric measurements are now standard for Norwalk islands Sharpies. Most American builders seem quite good at using Metric, it is apparently universal in American science.
    Full size template plans and instructions are included in all current models for optimum NACA Foil sections.
    As far as is practical, and with suitable consents, we will endeavor to put plans purchasers in contact with other owners and builders of Norwalk Islands Sharpies in their areas.
    All plans buyers now receive the new generic manual, and the new plans all include bulkhead shaping for the slightly radiused bottoms.
    Most plans buyers are also opting for the precut kits. especially in Australia and Europe. We are working on an economical kit manufacturing arrangement in the US.
    NIS 23. Great looking easily handled cruiser racer. The famed Laser Designer, Bruce Kirby has designed a bigger cruising Laser for grown ups.
    Simple construction, sophisticated Cat Ketch design with all the Kirby magic, brilliant self steering qualities, coastal sea keeping and performance.
    Winner of many races including Milang to Goolwa Freshwater Classic, Marlay Point Overnight Classic etc.
    Fully battened Marconi Cat Ketch. Allow 1200 hours building time. Easily trailed with a medium car. Extreme shallow draft. Self tacking, easily reefed.
    Inc trailer approx 1600KG
    Metric measuring is now the Standard. All the plans are now of the MK2 versions, except for the NIS 29, 31 and 43. These are now in revision.

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  8. #638
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    We did do the Noelex. Although its not what Peter wants it is admirably suited for that coast, which is why Australians keep coming over here and taking all our Noelex 30's. Are there any left here? Not sure but I am sure I'd recognise a lot of boat names in Queensland/ Northern NSW.
    You can see Wai.....

    Rick

  9. #639
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Rob Ayliffe sailed a NIS to Hobart from the mainland. Dealt with a bit of weather. on the way.

  10. #640
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Swallow boats new cruiser. 1.3 tons. Retractable lead bulb keel and a mid mounted outboard inboard.

    http://swallowyachts.com/range/coast-250-new/


  11. #641
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    now that is seriously ugly LOL

  12. #642
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    these are really nice sharpiues, with the modified V bottom- and simple and easy freestanding rig.
    get it rigged and sailing in a heartbeat!
    this is the 22 they also have a 26 and a 28
    very affordable plans, and quick and easy builds- beautiful boats IMO!

    http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/princess/

  13. #643
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?


  14. #644
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    i just love this write up of Grahams.
    may be pertinent!

    http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/why-a-cat-ketch/

  15. #645
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    NIS looks as though she might fit the bill admirably, I'd be curious how it would handle rough conditions with one sailor aboard that Peter is proposing, storm type winds with dangerous seas. I'd be tempted to eliminate the cockpit and go with a small self draining foot well and deck seating inside a coaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Yes....one has a tall, easy to handle and efficient rig, lovely clean hull lines and a streamlined keel that slides through the water beautifully, and the other's a boxy dory. :-)
    Centennial may have a boxy hull shape but I'm guessing that in a steep 3-5 foot chop the Noelex will be pounding like you would not believe and stuffing her bow into wave crests while Centennial rides the waves like a sea duck.

    I guess I'm a bit confused about the "Noelex" as it does not seem available in wood or any plans sets available for home builders...? this is the "Wooden" boat forum.


    I guess there is an almost limitless list of trailerable F-glass boats that someone could take the lines from and strip build with appropriate know how and time and money...


    How about a J88? or, or, or...
    Last edited by Daniel Noyes; 06-12-2018 at 12:00 PM.

  16. #646

    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    What about the Folkboat - perfectly capable of crossing the Atlantic, North Sea and other bodies of what. Sail beautifully and at just under two tons can easily be trailed on a double axle trailer with a decent 4x4. Easy enough to launch off a slip way if there is a couple of metres of tide or can be craned in and and out.

  17. #647
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FB 539 View Post
    What about the Folkboat - perfectly capable of crossing the Atlantic, North Sea and other bodies of what. Sail beautifully and at just under two tons can easily be trailed on a double axle trailer with a decent 4x4. Easy enough to launch off a slip way if there is a couple of metres of tide or can be craned in and and out.
    Mine got trailed a bit around Sweden, but it had to be craned in and out each time, as well as a crane to set a keel stepped mast up, not really a bad thing in the home of the folkboat who are set up to do it. Having said that, mine got dropped from a sling with the mast crushing the doghouse, and that was the end of that. After that experience, i do not want to have to rely on any outside help to launch my own boat, or step the mast.

  18. #648
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    Cant believe the asking prices 60-110k! I still think the best trailerable cruiser for Pete is a keel boat. Theres a steel roberts 44 all set up on trademe you could probably get for 50, its got a raft and cat 1 would be easy. Pick that up and head to Vavau- never look back! Nothing in this selection of small boats could prise me off dry land to cross an ocean

    How about a Norwalk Island Sharpie? Modify it for a stayed rig to make it cheaper, super simple to build and if you build it big enough, add water ballast it may well fit your needs. Good mix of classic, home build potential, slightly oddball design elements.

    Do bear in mind Paul that Peter lives inland a bit, its quite a drive to anywhere he might be able to keep a keelboat, which makes maintenance an issue, plus he'd be confined to the area around the marina or moorings when out for a daysail.
    There is also the cost of the berth. Trailerable in his case makes a lot of sense.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  19. #649
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    Default

    The Nis 23 has to one of the better options for a trailerable offshore boat. I have one for exactly this reason.

    It's not without its compromises. Being very tender initially it really wants the expensive carbon rig. And it's getting up there size wise to tow and rig for a daysail. They have a fairly small cockpit and cabin.

    But I am like the ability to sail to places like Port Davey and then go gunkholing up the rivers and inlets.

    There was a few nicely built ones for sale recently at well below building cost. Shearwater in tassie, and route66 in melbourne. I've been aboard both and they were in great condition.

  20. #650
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    Cant believe the asking prices 60-110k! I still think the best trailerable cruiser for Pete is a keel boat. Theres a steel roberts 44 all set up on trademe you could probably get for 50, its got a raft and cat 1 would be easy. Pick that up and head to Vavau- never look back! Nothing in this selection of small boats could prise me off dry land to cross an ocean

    How about a Norwalk Island Sharpie? Modify it for a stayed rig to make it cheaper, super simple to build and if you build it big enough, add water ballast it may well fit your needs. Good mix of classic, home build potential, slightly oddball design elements.

    Is that a Rockna?

  21. #651
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Yep.

    Rick

  22. #652
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I guess if it was different it would be a delta then.

  23. #653
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I don’t know what the centerboard is like in the NIS, but I really like Graham’s offset board. It is of the way of the keel, letting the keel take the ground. I believed be the board stays down a bit and is matched by a shallow fixed keel on the other side. All of this allows some actual shallow water sailing and the board is out of the way.

    I also like the Vee entry.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  24. #654
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Is that a Rockna?
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  25. #655
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    Centennial may have a boxy hull shape but I'm guessing that in a steep 3-5 foot chop the Noelex will be pounding like you would not believe.
    You guessed wrong; they are not bad at all, all else being equal.

    Yes, it's a 'glass boat but it was brought up as an answer to the basic question about whether there could be an offshore-capable trailer boat, not as an answer to Peter's situation.

    I didn't particularly want to be snarky about your boat (although you are abominably rude to me with your refusal to answer polite questions in The Bilge so) but I wasn't the one who started making negative comparisons between different boats. The underlying point was that the comparison about aesthetics seemed to be purely personal.
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  26. #656
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne nicol View Post
    i just love this write up of Grahams.
    may be pertinent!

    http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/why-a-cat-ketch/
    Sorry, but that piece has got some major basic factual errors that seem to indicate either bias or a rather significant ignorance of the issues he's discussing.

    For a start, it's rather dubious to claim "the recreational sailboats which have been built since, are influenced not by the need for efficiency and speed, but by an artificial rating rule". That completely ignores most of the most popular and influential boats in sailing (including the Folkboat, J/24, Flying 15, Westsail, Cal 40, Oceanises etc, as well as the Laser, Mirror, Sunfish, Hobie, Snipe etc) are NOT designed to rating rules and their rigs often reflect that. Most boats don't race under rating rules. Most boats rate under PHRF, HN, Yardstick, CBH and similar subjective systems or under class rules.

    And no, most sailors are not so stupid or conservative that they cannot look past the influence of rating rules. The success of craft like the Folkboat, J/24, Opti, Sunfish, Laser, Hobie and Flying 15 shows that the influence of such rules on the racing market and the wider market is vastly overstated. People generally choose the rig that works for them, whether it suits a rating rule or not. Any implication that most sailors are strongly reluctant to buy and use unconventional rigs is tosh.

    Secondly, those "artificial" rating rules actually gave a major benefit to cat ketches - it's just that the cat ketch rig is so slow that even with a big rating advantage, cat ketches normally get left behind. The boat that is often used as an example of the "good performance" of cat ketches is the 37 foot Cascade. She was initially rated as fast as a conventional 30 footer - and even with that enormous advantage she could not normally beat conventional 37 footers on handicap, even when the event was mainly sailed downwind. In fact she was even beaten on over-the-line placings when she raced the older conventional 30 footers in the half ton championship, although it was partly because she broke gear. Other cat ketches have behaved in a similar way.

    There are also many classes that either just measure area or allow any rig to be used. None of these classes use cat ketch rigs because, as Uffa Fox proved in the 1930s, they are slower than a sloop rig. Sure, much of their speed edge is upwind, but the article claims the cat ketch is good upwind.

    Finally, if the cat ketch is so fast then why does the designer himself reckon the CS17 is slower than older, shorter cruising-style dinghies like the Wayfarer, Enterprise and Snipe?

    By the way, I own a whole bunch of freestanding rigs and a whole bunch of wishbones. None of my own boats has the standard conventional masthead sloop rig. My family has a 37 footer with a wishbone rig and it works very well. Cat ketches are great and it would be good to see more of them. I recommended the NIS earlier. However, the fact that cat ketches and wishbones are great does not mean that they have to be promoted with inaccurate claims that imply that most sailors are unable to look past rule influences or to choose the right rig for their needs.
    Last edited by Chris249; 06-12-2018 at 08:48 PM.
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  27. #657
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Swallow boats new cruiser. 1.3 tons. Retractable lead bulb keel and a mid mounted outboard inboard.

    http://swallowyachts.com/range/coast-250-new/

    It'll be interesting to see if it achieves that weight. Comparable boats like the Clubman 8, Ross 780 and J/80 are heavier or similar in displacement, and they use sandwich, have lower or similar hull volume, and are not exactly luxurious or overweight.

    To call the engine arrangement "innovative" as they do implies that they are heavily into exaggeration (to use a polite term). The same arrangement has been seen in high profile classes like the FT10 and Melges 32 for over a decade, and of course in a different location it's been used in boats like the Thunderbird for over half a century.
    Last edited by Chris249; 06-12-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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  28. #658
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Yes I suggested or agreed with the NIS earlier too, I raced against one (possibly the only one here ) in a few events in the 90's and it went extremely well. I've always fancied owning one myself to use as an alternative boat , get into the sorts of places I can't go in my keeler. Those rivers and estuaries and a harbour or two I can think of are about as close as we can get to Peters kind of cruising ground , even a bar.

  29. #659
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    People generally choose the rig that works for them, whether it suits a rating rule or not. Any implication that most sailors are strongly reluctant to buy and use unconventional rigs is tosh.


    I see this question a bit differently. I think you can argue that unless they are builders, designers, or serious racers, most people generally choose the rig that is available, and make it work for them. So maybe it's not a question of sailors being reluctant to use unconventional rigs, so much as a question of very few production boats offering anything but marconi sloop rigs.

    I doubt most sailors have thought through their particular rig with any kind of analytical rigor. They get used to what they have, and make it work for them. In the process, many of them come to believe that a sloop rig is "better" than older traditional rigs, without really understanding that there is no absolute "better"--each rig has advantages and disadvantages. But because the sloop rig is so common, people are not often able to see the disadvantages--a sloop is, for them, the very definition of what sailing is. It's all they know.

    There is simply no doubt that most sailors who buy and sail production boats are almost entirely ignorant about traditional rigs. I've had national sailing magazines "correct" my writing to mislabel lugsails as gaff rigs, etc. I've found that any sail with a spar on the top edge is perceived as "gaff rig."

    I doubt that people who can't even recognize a rig can accurately assess its advantages and limitations.

    Also, I note that your emphasis is always on which boat is faster. There are other equally valid ways to judge performance. I don't, however, deny that what you say is true--you are clearly a lot more knowledgeable than I am about a wide range of boats and rigs, and I always appreciate your insights.

    My own interest in small boats with simple traditional rigs is a very narrow subset of the sailing community, so if anything, my views on sailing are more slanted toward my purposes than your views are slanted toward yours!

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Mine got trailed a bit around Sweden, but it had to be craned in and out each time, as well as a crane to set a keel stepped mast up, not really a bad thing in the home of the folkboat who are set up to do it. Having said that, mine got dropped from a sling with the mast crushing the doghouse, and that was the end of that. After that experience, i do not want to have to rely on any outside help to launch my own boat, or step the mast.
    If a person wasn't interested in class racing and wanted a tiny cruising boat based on a Folkboat I wonder what rig would best suffice, the main requirement being ease of single handedly erecting the mast(s) and a minimum of rigging.
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I see this question a bit differently. I think you can argue that unless they are builders, designers, or serious racers, most people generally choose the rig that is available, and make it work for them. So maybe it's not a question of sailors being reluctant to use unconventional rigs, so much as a question of very few production boats offering anything but marconi sloop rigs.

    I doubt most sailors have thought through their particular rig with any kind of analytical rigor. They get used to what they have, and make it work for them. In the process, many of them come to believe that a sloop rig is "better" than older traditional rigs, without really understanding that there is no absolute "better"--each rig has advantages and disadvantages. But because the sloop rig is so common, people are not often able to see the disadvantages--a sloop is, for them, the very definition of what sailing is. It's all they know.

    There is simply no doubt that most sailors who buy and sail production boats are almost entirely ignorant about traditional rigs. I've had national sailing magazines "correct" my writing to mislabel lugsails as gaff rigs, etc. I've found that any sail with a spar on the top edge is perceived as "gaff rig."

    I doubt that people who can't even recognize a rig can accurately assess its advantages and limitations.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]Also, I note that your emphasis is always on which boat is faster. There are other equally valid ways to judge performance. I don't, however, deny that what you say is true--you are clearly a lot more knowledgeable than I am about a wide range of boats and rigs, and I always appreciate your insights.

    My own interest in small boats with simple traditional rigs is a very narrow subset of the sailing community, so if anything, my views on sailing are more slanted toward my purposes than your views are slanted toward yours!

    Tom
    Thanks Tom, and I must say that I have learned a lot here from people like you.

    To make one thing clear, the reason I refer to speed is NOT because I believe it's all-important, but because it is reasonably objective and therefore can be used to sort the wheat from the chaff when it comes to claims that are being made.

    While "mainstream" sailors may be ignorant of traditional rigs, the reverse can also often be said; hence the number of people who will claim that (for example) the stays on bermudan rigs are "highly stressed" as a rule. Ironically, in other sites I'm the one who is seen as the advocate of retro-tech! :-)

    There is obviously an element of people choosing what rigs are available, but on the other hand in the areas I have studied intensively it seems that in the majority of cases, the design features that are work well for lots of people in the given environment (using that to include issues such as weather, boat storage options, geography, economy, technology etc) are the ones that become readily available.

    As noted, I was one of those who chucked in a vote for the cat ketch (in the form of the NIS) a few pages back and if I could sneak in an extra boat it would be a cat ketch (Storer Beth). My issue was not with the rig, but with incorrect claims made in regard to it. As a general rule, it seems that there are many derogatory claims from all sides towards other sailors and their boats that are incorrect. IMHO it's more accurate to start from the assumption that most people choose their boats for good reasons.
    Cheers
    Last edited by Chris249; 06-12-2018 at 11:14 PM.
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  32. #662
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    I think the NIS 23 that crossed Bass straight was lucky, I dont think they are serious offshore boats but pretty good for short hops, the one that we had here was notoriously useless on the wind and didnt really handle heavy air at all. The thing is its really hard to get roominess, speed (relatively), ease of rigging, good looks, shallow draft, seakeeping ability, storage etc in a small boat. I dont care that people refer to the extremists madmen sailors in ridiculous boats, they are hardcore and dont apply to this thread.

    I also dont think you can have the lot, so best to pick the most important elements and take it from there, but Pete a word to the wise; Just pick one man(and it dont really matter that much which btw!) and get on with it before you get too old or too confused or both!

    I dont think Daniels dory is going to cross the pond either but he has impressed me with his ability to just do it! That counts for a lot.
    whatever rocks your boat

  33. #663
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    I think the NIS 23 that crossed Bass straight was lucky, I dont think they are serious offshore boats but pretty good for short hops, the one that we had here was notoriously useless on the wind and didnt really handle heavy air at all. The thing is its really hard to get roominess, speed (relatively), ease of rigging, good looks, shallow draft, seakeeping ability, storage etc in a small boat. I dont care that people refer to the extremists madmen sailors in ridiculous boats, they are hardcore and dont apply to this thread.

    I also dont think you can have the lot, so best to pick the most important elements and take it from there, but Pete a word to the wise; Just pick one man(and it dont really matter that much which btw!) and get on with it before you get too old or too confused or both!

    I dont think Daniels dory is going to cross the pond either but he has impressed me with his ability to just do it! That counts for a lot.
    Where would you put Roger Taylor and Ming Ming? I don’t think he would call himself hardcore. He as done many miles offshore and though his type of sailing may not appeal to most he has some good thoughts of offshore boats. Having seen how wild the sea can be from 18,000 to 314,000 toners offshore sailing is not for me.

    He also took one of his previous boats Rock across the Tasmin in some serious weather.
    http://www.thesimplesailor.com/

    http://furledsails.com/article.php3?article=779

    http://furledsails.com/article.php3?article=780

  34. #664
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    BC Coast
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    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    While not really the best trailer sailor (with 3600 lbs and 3 foot draft) I'd suggest a look at L.F. Herreshoffs Cat Yawl design 102....( I cant post the drawing here) I think. He refers to is as a cat yawl because that was the traditional way of describing that rig, though it is clearly a "Cat Ketch" according to our current interpretation. In this case the mizzen is way smaller than the main.[IMG]IMG_20160705_144306 by gilberj55, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The point here is the boat sails really well, is close winded, reasonably fast, and roomy for a 21 footer. We once sailed across the Strait of Georgia...Salish Sea....close reaching in a small gale, force 7 in company with a J 24. They cleared Point Gray about 1/4 mile behind us and reached Porlier pass less than a quarter mile ahead of us, that distance being about 21 nm. Oh and by the way we had a hot cooked meal on the way.,
    I think LFH considered the short gaffs one of his best innovations, for cruising boat. I can attest the set up works really well, having sailed with short gaffs on Descant (above) and Whimbrel (below). These could be considered an ancestor of the fat or square head sail carried on nearly all serious racing boats today. Starting from scratch I'd probably consider a fully battened, fat-head cruising rig cat ketch......a..la...Presto 30.....
    [IMG]DSCF1839 by gilberj55, on Flickr[/IMG]
    And yes the Meadowlark could be trailerable, but I would not do it.

    Both these boat share some rigging/sail geometry characteristics with the previously mentioned cat ketches. As a cruising rig I think it is really hard to beat....
    Actually I think if I were considering a boat for this mandate I'd put the Presto 30 near the top of the list... Get Roger Martin to adjust the design for wood construction ( strip planking would be my choice)...wooden masts ( much cheaper than the designed carbon fibre spars)....

  35. #665
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    BC Coast
    Posts
    3,645

    Default Re: An offshore capable trailer boat ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    I think the NIS 23 that crossed Bass straight was lucky, I dont think they are serious offshore boats but pretty good for short hops, the one that we had here was notoriously useless on the wind and didnt really handle heavy air at all. The thing is its really hard to get roominess, speed (relatively), ease of rigging, good looks, shallow draft, seakeeping ability, storage etc in a small boat. I dont care that people refer to the extremists madmen sailors in ridiculous boats, they are hardcore and dont apply to this thread.

    I also dont think you can have the lot, so best to pick the most important elements and take it from there, but Pete a word to the wise; Just pick one man(and it dont really matter that much which btw!) and get on with it before you get too old or too confused or both!

    I dont think Daniels dory is going to cross the pond either but he has impressed me with his ability to just do it! That counts for a lot.
    I think a lot of WBF type sailors are suspicious of light displacement sailers. I get it...I was solidly in that camp for most of my sailing life. You still need ...for offshore....adequate stability....both being stiff enough to stand up when working to windward in strong winds and a rising sea, and adequate range of stability, considered these days to be self righting to about 130 degrees or more ( normally considered the minimum standard for offshore). I think the NIS would work for that with the high coach roof, helping to make the boat unstable when inverted...I have not got enough design details to be sure. Shallow body boats can be self righting in this context. It is simply a relationship between weights and volumes.
    Again I have never actually seen an NIS of any size, nor enough detail in drawings to be completely sure. My own experience in light displacement, shallow body boats, is the LFH Meadowlark, and I can say with no reservation that if the deck and cabin are built sufficiently strong and watertight, she has more than adequate stability characteristics for a voyage like this.
    Last edited by gilberj; 06-13-2018 at 01:39 AM.

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