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Thread: Somebody talk me out of it

  1. #1
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    Default Somebody talk me out of it

    Been after one of these for as long as I can remember, needs a bit of work, little things like engine, stern gear and rudder etc but the hull is good
    Boatyard doesn't want it there anymore.

    My problem is getting it somewhere to chuck an engine in it, and the minor matter of paying for it all and a significant other who is less than interested.
    What could possibly go wrong?????


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    I don’t suppose if you told her you’d found a perfect summer getaway....

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Looks nice.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    How do you know the hull is good?

    Having lived for over 35 years on older wooden boats, "hull is good" can mean anything from "when you powerwash the stream won't blow all the way through" to "better hope those shrimp keep holding hands."

    That said, divorce is a small price to pay. Go for it and

    G'luck

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    A big boat is a big commitment. Analyze it seriously and critically, judge your finances and free time the same way. While you may love her, is the boat that fits your needs and lifestyle.
    I adore big schooners, but if someone gave me a 60' Alden ready to go, it still wouldn't be the boat for me.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    How old are you? Are you working full time? Do have the money to fund any large work? The formula, over 60, retired and plenty of money to fund some labour hire and materials, good. Under 40, plenty of spare time and less money, good. In between, not good. Better to borrow money at currently low rates, work some overtime and your spare time is yours to use the boat, not work on it. Look up Resurrection of the Ghost, all those years spent rebuilding and I've spent way more than a good boat would have cost.
    the invisible man........

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    She won't fall for that one again!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Puttputt View Post
    I don’t suppose if you told her you’d found a perfect summer getaway....

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    That's the problem, she is almost perfect in my mind
    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Looks nice.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    The hull was recently re-planked with Iroko along with several frames replaced at the same time, even more recently she has had a new purpleheart keel fitted.
    The shipwright who currently owns her has done some very nice work but has run out of steam (new family etc).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    How do you know the hull is good?

    Having lived for over 35 years on older wooden boats, "hull is good" can mean anything from "when you powerwash the stream won't blow all the way through" to "better hope those shrimp keep holding hands."

    That said, divorce is a small price to pay. Go for it and

    G'luck

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    I know the commitment required, this will be our third ex trawler, in my mind she fits perfectly, good size for a family home, and enough wood to keep me busy mentally and physically. Financially these are always a failure, but just look at her she is perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by johngsandusky View Post
    A big boat is a big commitment. Analyze it seriously and critically, judge your finances and free time the same way. While you may love her, is the boat that fits your needs and lifestyle.
    I adore big schooners, but if someone gave me a 60' Alden ready to go, it still wouldn't be the boat for me.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Over 40, try to avoid borrowing money, working on boats is almost as good as playing on them for me. Living working and travelling on a boat is all part of the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by maxwaterline View Post
    How old are you? Are you working full time? Do have the money to fund any large work? The formula, over 60, retired and plenty of money to fund some labour hire and materials, good. Under 40, plenty of spare time and less money, good. In between, not good. Better to borrow money at currently low rates, work some overtime and your spare time is yours to use the boat, not work on it. Look up Resurrection of the Ghost, all those years spent rebuilding and I've spent way more than a good boat would have cost.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Those are good answers.
    Keep us posted.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Go for it.
    Post photos.?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Well you know what I'd say..

    Looks Danish? 60' LOD? A true sailing hull? Could be schoonerised me thinks.

    Probably room for a 5LW...

    5lw.jpg

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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Watching with vast interest! You might contact David on Yukon (Tasmania) which appears to be a similar hull. Maybe some of the interior shots of the boat may convince your good lady.
    http://yukon-tours.com.au/the-ship/

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Settle in with your honey, grab some wine, and watch Captain Ron together. Discuss.

    But seriously, it sounds like a better head start than most projects that show up here.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Splendid! Organize a work party and let's get started!

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    You lot really aren't helping in putting me off the idea

    5L3 is a bit big they're about 8' long with the gearbox, a 6LX would do nicely though. While she was originally built as a motor boat, she was one of the first, so still has very similar lines to her sail boat ancestors. She also comes with a stick of wood suitable for a mast.
    That Yukon is exactly the same type of boat, thanks for the link Hugh
    Captain Ron, good idea, I haven't watched it for a least a couple of weeks, definitely overdue LOL

    Back to reality though, I will need to tow her somewhere other than Bristol to do the work the on her, need some suggestions desperately?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    You're based in Kent?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    You're based in Kent?
    At the moment, and for lack of any where better to go, but I work from home so can go anywhere nearish to airports/ train /decent roads. Cornwall would be ideal if it wasn't 3 hours from the nearest decent airport. Bristol would be perfect if it wasn't for the limited options (that I know of) for proper boats. The yard she is in currently is not that keen for her to stay there and wants to jack the mooring fees up anyway.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Go for it!
    I can't so you should.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    This was a wet well Danish kotter.

    Just to wet your appetite
    13 foot shorter than this one though
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    If she's like the Yukon, yes, definitely do it. If your wife isnt happy then you might have chosen the wrong wife, but if you've done this a couple of times before, and she's stuck with you, youve done well. Put some money and time aside for some things she really wants to have or do, and go for it.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    You must be true to yourself.. Give some thought to what will be your last ideas as you take your last breath......................

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Here's my two cents:
    As it stands it's not worth what the seller is asking. Sure it has potential BUT:
    Right now it's a hulk that has to be towed. Installing an engine will be expensive. She was beeing prepared for houseboat conversion so one can only hope that she still has an installed driveline. Even if it's still there many of those boats had a variable pitch propeller, and that might need overhaul. Same for the tanks and rudder, we don't know if they exist and in what condition.
    Installing an engine will not be like "Johnny lets pull the engine out of that rusty bus and plop it in the boat over the weekend". Looks more like "write a check to the yard capable of hauling her" type of job. Plus the towing in the meantime of course.
    Then there is the obvious next big ticket item, and that's the deck. Now it just might be that it's sound and tight as a drum and only needs a scrub, but how likley is that? I mean she got new planking 20 years ago, new keel more recent, sooner or later the deck will also need atention. Deckhouse, stanchions, rail, look at least like a sanding orgy waiting to happen, and maybe more.
    After one has her repowered and watertight all around it's a boat again and the normal "make fit for purpose" may finally begin. From all the repowering work the interior will be messed up, but that's no big deal, it must be redone anyway, besides beeing fugly (my opinion, yours may differ) it was not intended for working in a seaway.
    Converting to sail is certainly an option. It will not be a cheap one, beginning with the NA and ending with the sailmaker.
    For a prospective buyer I see several options: keep her as a houseboat somewhere cheap on a canal and live on her. Maybe you want that or maybe not. Have a yard repower her then go search for cheap dockspace or mooring. Means having a big chunk of cash ready. Find a place that will take her long term where you can work on her yourself. That probably means a traditional or historic yard that has the dockspace and is cheap enough. You will need good connections for something like that. Last option is moving her on the hard on a farm until everything is done to your satisfaction. The danger is that she never leaves that farm again.

    Let's say you buy her, what would be your middle and long term plans for her? Convert her to liveaboard motorboat? Circumnavigation ready sailboat? Historic sail tours? This is a big boat and owning it will be like paying rent and keeping up a second home. Without a concept and a goal it only makes sense for very wealthy individuals.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Don't listen to him. Way to sensible.

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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    WOW! I just saw what the asking rice was! As I understand it "Yukon" was got for a case of beer. Decent beer, mind you, but no 12K. At that, she was s long, slow and expensive process that's maybe breaking even with the charters. So....are you up for this? If so, then I'd have to say it's "hardball" time on that asking price. Maybe a couple of bottles of decent scotch?

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Quote Originally Posted by len hornick View Post
    You must be true to yourself.. Give some thought to what will be your last ideas as you take your last breath......................
    Therein lies the problem, I'm a tinkerer, maker of things etc etc everything I've ever done I've ended up making stuff to do it, as kid when I got into BMX's as well as racing, I used to fix mine and all my mates bikes, building wheels at age 13, even got a job in the local bike shop, later tweaking mtbs to get more travel out of the suspension etc. Later got into climbing more specifically aid climbing, made my own portaledges, aiders and other stuff (could have bought it but where is the fun in that). In the last month, out of boredom, I made a new sofa and armchair (nothing fancy but I like it), reconditioned and fitted a new front axle in the Land rover, built some saw horses (4 of them, even though I only needed 2) rebuilt a workbench in the workshop and put a new roof on the workshop. All done with a full time job which involves me travelling away from home a lot.
    Boats like this give me a sense of purpose in life. Even when they are done, there is always something else to do, ropework, brightwork etc etc

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Rumarrs Thanks for taking the time to challenge me. As you will see I have some answers, but some are still open and the sticking points for me. I'll answer in bold in your original post as it's quicker than separating your post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    Here's my two cents:
    As it stands it's not worth what the seller is asking. Sure it has potential BUT:
    Agreed but there are a lot of spares/extras that will come with her.
    Right now it's a hulk that has to be towed.
    That is a real problem which I have no answer for currently and I need somewhere to tow her too
    Installing an engine will be expensive.
    I'm a time served marine engineer, and have a lead on a suitable engine for a reasonable price, the ancillaries I can make/ buy as required
    She was being prepared for houseboat conversion so one can only hope that she still has an installed driveline.
    She was being prepared for a life back at sea, the current owner is a shipwright and good one at that, but a young family etc have taken all his time (I can sympathize as I was in a similar position years ago). There is no stern gear at present, but I have some contacts who have the appropriate gear.
    Even if it's still there many of those boats had a variable pitch propeller, and that might need overhaul. Same for the tanks and rudder, we don't know if they exist and in what condition
    No stern gear, no rudder, no tanks. All relatively easy to get hold of and easy enough to fit.
    Installing an engine will not be like "Johnny lets pull the engine out of that rusty bus and plop it in the boat over the weekend". Looks more like "write a check to the yard capable of hauling her" type of job. Plus the towing in the meantime of course
    Installing engines, is what I do for fun, no way I'm paying someone to do it
    Then there is the obvious next big ticket item, and that's the deck. Now it just might be that it's sound and tight as a drum and only needs a scrub, but how likley is that? I mean she got new planking 20 years ago, new keel more recent, sooner or later the deck will also need attention.
    Deck is all relatively new as well, with very few, if any leaks
    Deckhouse, stanchions, rail, look at least like a sanding orgy waiting to happen, and maybe more.
    Deckhouse looks a little shabby but nothing a quick rub down and a splash of varnish wouldn't cure, stanchions are new and need painting and the bulwark planking fitting, cap rail has been stained (I think) and will need finishing.
    After one has her repowered and watertight all around it's a boat again and the normal "make fit for purpose" may finally begin. From all the repowering work the interior will be messed up, but that's no big deal, it must be redone anyway, besides beeing fugly (my opinion, yours may differ) it was not intended for working in a seaway.
    The re-power work will be contained aft of the bulkhead so the interior fit out won't get touched, while I agree some of the interior is not to my taste, some of it being temporary anyway, the fully fitted bits are well executed and I quite like it
    Converting to sail is certainly an option. It will not be a cheap one, beginning with the NA and ending with the sailmaker.
    Sail is a possible option but as you say expensive, but she was originally built with a mast and sail (steadying/a bit of extra power) I have some pictures of her original layout which where I would probably go with it.
    For a prospective buyer I see several options: keep her as a houseboat somewhere cheap on a canal and live on her. Maybe you want that or maybe not.
    Living on her is the plan, but she must be sea-going, playing on/in the water (surfing/diving/touring) is the goal
    Have a yard repower her then go search for cheap dockspace or mooring. Means having a big chunk of cash ready. Find a place that will take her long term where you can work on her yourself. That probably means a traditional or historic yard that has the dockspace and is cheap enough. You will need good connections for something like that. Last option is moving her on the hard on a farm until everything is done to your satisfaction. The danger is that she never leaves that farm again.
    This is the current sticking point, where to put her while working on her, the Bristol channel is not littered with boatyards (that I know of) where she could go. If I could get her towed around to the south coast I have all sorts of options and it would be easy. Finding someone to tow her might be a challenge, there are people out there mad enough to do it but they are few and far between.

    Let's say you buy her, what would be your middle and long term plans for her? Convert her to liveaboard motorboat? Circumnavigation ready sailboat? Historic sail tours? This is a big boat and owning it will be like paying rent and keeping up a second home. Without a concept and a goal it only makes sense for very wealthy individuals. Short term goal is to get out of this house I'm renting and live on a boat, mid term goal is to get her up and running, engine, mast etc. longer term is to use her, touring the coast and be maybe a bit of daytripping type work, but my day-job will remain my main income, I'm home-based and can work from anywhere apart from when I have to go to sites, good travel links required so the Shetland Isles are out

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Its the sort of boat that was found up in Penryn/Falmouth ,up on the beach. Good local facilities, many like minded people with "can do" attitude. Getting a tow down the Bristol Channel and around Lands End is not something to be undertaken lightly.
    I knew a guy who bought an old MFV, already coded, and intended to do dive charters in the Med, i think he paid 50k for the boat (60ft with Gardner 6lxb), paid another 25k for further hold conversion in accomdation and a whole lot of deck work that was unexpected, and sadly got to a stage where he ran out of money and the boat was covered in tarps and he got 15k for it. I had not actually witnessed anyone working so hard and lose 60k in less than 12 months. I dont think example is going to put you off, as it appears you are going in eyes wide open. One thing i do remember him saying " when you have a big boat, you dont pay yachty prices, as you can go to commercial operators,fishermans co-ops, where prices are low" (in comparison); It must have been around the time most of the decks were off and the rot in the stanchions was becoming apparent, that i wondered over and told him " good job you dont own a yacht, otherwise that would be a really expensive job"......he didnt laugh.
    The only guy i knew crazy enough to tow that around the coast, did actually own a boat made for the purpose, an old Admiralty harbour towing launch, but i last saw him down in Portugal, making ethnic wooden drums to sell in markets in order to fill up his huge diesel tanks.....until then, he was stuck on a mooring that was costing him money he didnt have.
    Lovely looking lines, deserves saving, but i would be thinking about the effects on family. Have you considered biting the bullet and getting her hauled by road to a suitable location?

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    You need to haul it somewhere you can store it free or nearly free. Have at least 5 years and at least a 100k at the ready. In the end it will be worth about 1/3 of what you put into it. Check the running costs, thats what kills these things, its a big boat and generally if you cant afford to buy a decent version of this boat then you probably cant afford to keep it going with berthage etc and the ongoing maintenance.

    I say run away
    whatever rocks your boat

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    And yet, there's the Yukon.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Sure, but I'll bet it wasn't one guy with a family and not much dosh, actually did start a family and didnt have much money but after reading the article but he had a lot of help along the way and worked full time on the project for 7 years
    Last edited by Paul G.; 03-24-2018 at 05:21 AM.
    whatever rocks your boat

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    If not somewhere around the Avon, try Sharpness, Newport, Cardiff. I wouldn't tow that around Lands End.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Somebody talk me out of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul G. View Post
    Sure, but I'll bet it wasn't one guy with a family and not much dosh, actually did start a family and didnt have much money but after reading the article but he had a lot of help along the way and worked full time on the project for 7 years
    Exactly. You don't need a million bucks to fix and maintain a big old boat. You need a broad range of skills, good friends and mighty gronicles. And patience and determination.

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