Want to build a raid boat.

[Arcb]

First time poster. I am interested in building a boat I can easily trailer to messabouts and raids including events like the EC. I have owned several fibre glass boats up to 35 feet and currently own a couple of small trailer sailors, but I would really like the satisfaction of sailing a boat I built myself. My biggest concern is starting a project and not finishing it because it proves to be too much work, I work full time and have kids.

I have been aboard a SCAMP and was really impressed by the boat, most of all I was blown away by its speed in light air. However, when I started researching the build process, I was seeing work hours exceeding 200 for total boat building amateurs like myself and it looks pretty complex.

I have been aboard a couple of bigger Core Sounds at dock and really like the rig, and I know they are quick. I am wondering, comparatively if the Core Sound 15 would be significantly less work then the Scamp. I cant seem to find build time estimates on the boat. It looks easier, fewer curves, no cabin etc.

Are there any other designs folks can recommend that might be on the easier side to build that can still move. I am hoping to find something wit no fixed ballast 15 feet or less, I would prefer to stay away from sloop rigs in the interest of keeping the centre of effort low.

[minuteman]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

Hello and welcome to the Forum

I have a little experience with these boats, so I hope this helps.

I'm almost done with a Welsford Navigator, which has similar building techniques to the Scamp (3 feet longer, but no cuddy). I didn't count the hours but I started 3 years ago today. I'd guess I put in at least three or four times your 200 hour estimate. Christine is building a Scamp in Ridgeway, ON, perhaps you could contact her. Her build is over 2 years now. If you like Welsford's boats, he designed the Saturday Night Special to be built so quickly that you could travel to a raid (the Texas 200, specifically), build it, sail it and leave it!

I once visited a guy in the middle of a CS17 build and it looked significantly easier and quicker. Plus it has totally proven itself on the EC. I would imagine that the Phoenix III or the Goat Island Skiff would be something for you to think about. There also the Light Trow - I only know of one build, but the guy sailed and rowed it all over the Spanish Mediterranean coast.

Good luck with your choice. I was pretty much a beginner at the start and I found that the process has been great fun but it took much much longer than I thought.

Kenny

[Arcb]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

Interesting tip on the Goat Island Skiff. If there is one thing better than a trailable sail boat, it must be a car topable sailboat. I follow a guy on YouTube that sails one in Italy. Adding a Spray deck forward of the mast might help keeping the waves on the outside.

[David G]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

I can sympathize with the urge to build your own boat to sail to such events.

Are you looking to 'win' (when the event is geared that way)... or to participate and finish?

[Hugh MacD]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

How old are your kids? Sounds like a perfect opportunity to involve them both in the build process (shouldn't slow you down too much) and in the sailing/rowing.

[skaraborgcraft]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

Michalak Family skiff, 200 hours including the sail. Scamp is actually quite a technical little boat and is the reason she is a good one. There was a Mikes boat (17ft Michalak) for $900 seen in Small Craft Advisor.....no rig....did have a trailer. Bargain!

[Arcb]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

Okay, the Family Skiff looks pretty interesting too. So many options.

My Kids are 4 with another on the way. Yes, I will definitely be involving my son in the build, he loves boats. I had him steering a semi straight line with my Walker Bay 8 at about 2 and half and my Bay Hen the next year. I am just going to put up a big tent on a concrete pad in the back yard and he can help or play as he sees fit.

DavidG, I just want to finish, participate and have fun in raids. I know the formula for winning- hot rod mutlis and non stop sailing, not really my cup of tea, I am more interested in the challenge of participating in a boat of my own making, enjoying nature etc.

[L.A Marche]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

How fussy are you, a lot of build time is taken up with sanding and getting that perfect fit and finish. What are your woodworking skills, having to master new skills and techniques takes time away from building. Are you a confident builder that jumps in with the minimum information or someone who needs to have every detail sorted before starting and still worries you don’t know enough? Are you the type who wants to second guess the designer or is willing to follow proven plans? What’s your budget, can you purchase all your materials at once or as you can afford them? Do errors and small setbacks discourage or encourage you? All this stuff adds to build time, how much guilt free time do you have or can you make?
Some things are more important than others, nothing trumps a strong, stable and water proof hull. Good materials and best practices are needed, matched veneers and mirror like varnish are not. Having a dedicated building space is a time saver. Building a kit boat will save time but not all boats can be built from a kit. And finally for me, what’s more important building a boat or sailing one?

[wtarzia]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

For a first time build, a Michalak boat is not a bad way to go. I sailed a raid event on his Laguna, a 23 foot transom-sharpie. It had side-tank-seats, center storage, and bow and aft storage, all of which cam be made water-tight (though you wouldn't want to capsize one and expect a quick recovery). This would be a good size to bring passengers out on. I have seen his somewhat smaller designs work very well on these raids, too.

A more shapely design, though harder to build, might be one of the kit dories (pre-cut parts) from Chesapeake Light Craft, which offers two sailing dories, easy to row as well as sail, an open model and a model with ample air-tanks and so better with kids aboard; the open model has been successful on a couple of Everglades Challenge events.

If you are open to a multi-hull, then a small trimaran is an excellent choice for one or two adults, or an adult and a couple of kids, especially as they resist capsize quite well if not crazy-powered, and generally sail fast even when not crazy-powered, and have all the benefits of being easily beachable too. Simple builds exist, similar to sharpie-hulls. For very simple designs, check out Frank Smoot; for more family-size, check out Jim Brown's/Marple's SeaClipper 20 (larger and more complex, but the building techniques are sharpie-simple). -- Wade

[Arcb]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

How fussy are you, a lot of build time is taken up with sanding and getting that perfect fit and finish. What are your woodworking skills, having to master new skills and techniques takes time away from building. Are you a confident builder that jumps in with the minimum information or someone who needs to have every detail sorted before starting and still worries you don’t know enough? Are you the type who wants to second guess the designer or is willing to follow proven plans? What’s your budget, can you purchase all your materials at once or as you can afford them? Do errors and small setbacks discourage or encourage you? All this stuff adds to build time, how much guilt free time do you have or can you make?
Some things are more important than others, nothing trumps a strong, stable and water proof hull. Good materials and best practices are needed, matched veneers and mirror like varnish are not. Having a dedicated building space is a time saver. Building a kit boat will save time but not all boats can be built from a kit. And finally for me, what’s more important building a boat or sailing one?

I would describe carpentry and boat building skills as very beginner. I cant actually answer some of these questions because I have never really attempted something like this, but I guess I know enough about my abilities to know that the Scamp looked too hard for me. I am definitely not the type to second guess boat designers. Although I have no building experience, I do have enough sailing experience to know that if I start messing with things, I will start messing up important details like centre of effort, pivot point, KG, sail balance etc. My budget is under control.

I should have enough free time, provided I can kind of keep an eye on my son while I build. I am not overly picky about appearance, actually, not picky at all, I sail my boats pretty hard, they get banged up, this project isn't intended to be a show piece she is a boat I intend to sail hard. In terms of build space, I have some ideas. I have 144 square foot concrete pad in the backyard, I can put one of those temporary sheds over. Plus, if I am not done by winter time, I have an attached garage I can move the project into.

[Falcon1]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

Phoenix III? https://www.duckworksbbs.com/product...hoenix3-id.htm

[Arcb]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

For a first time build, a Michalak boat is not a bad way to go. I sailed a raid event on his Laguna, a 23 foot transom-sharpie. It had side-tank-seats, center storage, and bow and aft storage, all of which cam be made water-tight (though you wouldn't want to capsize one and expect a quick recovery). This would be a good size to bring passengers out on. I have seen his somewhat smaller designs work very well on these raids, too.

A more shapely design, though harder to build, might be one of the kit dories (pre-cut parts) from Chesapeake Light Craft, which offers two sailing dories, easy to row as well as sail, an open model and a model with ample air-tanks and so better with kids aboard; the open model has been successful on a couple of Everglades Challenge events.

If you are open to a multi-hull, then a small trimaran is an excellent choice for one or two adults, or an adult and a couple of kids, especially as they resist capsize quite well if not crazy-powered, and generally sail fast even when not crazy-powered, and have all the benefits of being easily beachable too. Simple builds exist, similar to sharpie-hulls. For very simple designs, check out Frank Smoot; for more family-size, check out Jim Brown's/Marple's SeaClipper 20 (larger and more complex, but the building techniques are sharpie-simple). -- Wade

The Laguna is a fun looking boat, but a bit bigger then I want. Both the Lady Bug and May Fly look like interesting options.

I am not anti multi hull, but I already have a 16 foot catamaran which I have completed the EC in. The problem is, my crew is anti multi hull because they are so wet and exposed (okay, I am a bit tired of being wet and exposed too). I am thinking mono hull, a boat you can sit inside and carry a bit of a load with, anchor, go to sleep. Doesn't have to have a cabin, boom tents are fine.

My current boats, which I plan on continuing to sail, are a Bay Hen 21 (Sharpie type boat with a small cabin) and a 16 foot beach cat, so I am trying to avoid too much cross over. I have been wanting a small 12-15 foot sailing mono for some time, but would like to build this one myself.

I am open to kit boats, like I mentioned, I am very much a beginner carpenter.

[skaraborgcraft]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

Not a huge amount of carpentry in most of the Michalak boats, probably why they are popular with first time builders. I dont think i have had a better smile per mile per $ than my family skiff, and it actually sailed far better than i was expecting. The two benches are wide enough to sleep on (for a 70kg European), and the better half likes sitting "in" it, with a comfy back rest and good foot bracing. Bags of stowage. Im not trying to talk you into one, but it sounds like your requirements are met with this design.

[Robert Meyer]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

You might want to consider the Skerry Raid from CLC boats. They have sailed in the EC and done well. Any of the boats you are considering would serve you well.

http://www.clcboats.com/media_gallery/slideshow.html?boat_id=554&content_type=2&next=6

[Daniel Noyes]

Re: Want to build a raid boat.

When I owned Spear I so wanted to trailer her down to Fl for the EC... unfortunately finances and work (same thing?) got in the way.

A 1890's racing dory, fast and fairly seaworthy, designed for the rough chop off Marblehead when the afternoon south-westerlys fill in.
Plans in John Gardners the Dory Book, I built this boat in about a month with a friend helping weekends at 45-50 hrs a week.