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Thread: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

  1. #1
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    Default If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    If a Teacher is mentally incapable of properly handling a fire arm why should they be trusted to teach children?

    If a teacher appears unstable to the point you would be reluctant to give them a weapon.... why are they any where near children in the first place?

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Hard to use a child as a gun, projectile vomiting only goes so far.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    point taken!


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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Yeah, nonsense arguments don’t go far either.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    So True!


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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    So why not just hire trained killers (honorably discharged infantry troops) to teach in schools.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    But seriously what is the argument against arming teachers?


    they do not have the mental capability to safely handle a firearm? or they might go bezerk and shoot up the school themselves?

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    So why not just hire trained killers (honorably discharged infantry troops) to teach in schools.


    ohh now w're talking... I imagine test scores would sky rocket and behavior issues would disappear.

    are Public school teachers that lame brained that they can not pass a simple fire arms education course?

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    This is a subset of 'more guns will make us safer'. It is utter and complete bullsh!t, disproved by the evidence of every other civilized country on the planet.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    If there is a teacher out there who can't be trusted NOT to shoot students, they should not be teaching... PERIOD.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    If there is a teacher out there who can't be trusted NOT to shoot students, they should not be teaching... PERIOD.
    You obviously have never discussed this lame-brained idea with actual teachers... there are two in my family, including my own son-in-law... and they laugh out loud at the utter stupidity of the idea of arming teachers.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Scheuer View Post
    So why not just hire trained killers (honorably discharged infantry troops) to teach in schools.
    You mean like the one that shot up the veterans home?

    Plus doesn’t a teacher require a college degree? Maybe even post graduate degrees?
    Other than the officers I don’t know if a large percentage of “trained killers” have the necessary credentials.
    Of course we could just lower the requirements for a teaching certificate. I bet the trump fans would like that idea.
    Last edited by Reynard38; 03-11-2018 at 01:02 PM.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    You aren’t serious otherwise you wouldn’t use emoticons for most of your conversation and you’d be able to respond point by point reasonably.

    1. The vigilance and training required to be an armed guard is a totally different task than being a teacher.
    2. Carrying a weapon and knowing how to shoot a target is totally inadequate training for the scenarios imagined.
    3. Imagined scenarios are not statistical reality.
    4. The skillset and training for being a teacher and an armed guard willing to kill ANYONE up close and personal are in completely different universes.
    5. Teachers, parents, students and administrators don’t want it.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    ...projectile vomiting only goes so far.
    I think it is a forum member who holds the record for that. I have one in particular in mind.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    If there is a teacher out there who can't be trusted NOT to shoot students, they should not be teaching... PERIOD.
    Wait a second, aren’t you arguing for teachers who can shoot students? Armed student comes in shooting away and you don’t want the armed teacher to kill them?

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    You obviously have never discussed this lame-brained idea with actual teachers... there are two in my family, including my own son-in-law... and they laugh out loud at the utter stupidity of the idea of arming teachers.
    I know several teachers who think it's a great idea and pure lunacy that we protect Celebrities and Bank cash deliveries with GUNS and our childeren with a tin sign that reads Gun Free Zone.


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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Another iteration of the lie, 'more guns will make us safer'.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Why do you people entertain such foolish remarks?

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Why do you people entertain such foolish remarks?
    The urge to gawp at a car crash?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    I know several teachers who think it's a great idea and pure lunacy that we protect Celebrities and Bank cash deliveries with GUNS and our childeren with a tin sign that reads Gun Free Zone.

    Anecdotes aren’t an argument. I know people who believe in ghosts and homeopathy. Individuals getting armed guards is not a school. Make a cogent argument with words and not posters and emoticons.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Why do you people entertain such foolish remarks?
    putting off doing more productive things.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Another iteration of the lie, 'more guns will make us safer'.
    should we click our heels three times blink our eyes and all guns will vanish?

    you are proposing a staw man argument...

    the real argument is, If there is an active shooter in a school the best way to reduce loss of life is guns in the hands of good guys... rather than guns only in the hands of the bad guy.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    let's get this straight. The NYPD, who are trained and re-trained to use their weapons not only on the range, but in the field, can only exhibit a 13% hit rate. How is a teacher, who already works long hours in the school, but has to bring home work to prepare for the next day, AND go to numerous conventions and training classes to keep up current with teaching trends and knowledge, supposed to also get training in how to use a gun in a firefight.

    In a firefight, a police officer has to worry about getting shot and keeping his fellow officers safe.. people who are also well trained. In a classroom, that same teacher would need to keep from getting shot, keep the students from getting shot, trying not to shoot the wrong person, AND keep a classroom full of students quiet while there is a firefight going on? Add to this, if a police officer entered the room with a gun looking for a shooter and came across somebody with a gun aimed at them, it is a recipe for disaster. Just use your brain and try not to boil everything down to the lowest common denominator.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    You aren’t serious otherwise you wouldn’t use emoticons for most of your conversation and you’d be able to respond point by point reasonably.

    1. The vigilance and training required to be an armed guard is a totally different task than being a teacher.
    2. Carrying a weapon and knowing how to shoot a target is totally inadequate training for the scenarios imagined.
    3. Imagined scenarios are not statistical reality.
    4. The skillset and training for being a teacher and an armed guard willing to kill ANYONE up close and personal are in completely different universes.
    5. Teachers, parents, students and administrators don’t want it.

    active shooter training include Run Hide and Fight components...


    the "Fight " component typically covers throwing chairs and office supplies at a shooter or picking up a childs desk and charging the assailaint... of course if the people under attack had a gun... then the training could include that as an option for "fighting back"

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    should we click our heels three times blink our eyes and all guns will vanish?

    you are proposing a staw man argument...

    the real argument is, If there is an active shooter in a school the best way to reduce loss of life is guns in the hands of good guys... rather than guns only in the hands of the bad guy.
    “good guy”and “bad guy” arguments are nonsense just like the cowboy movies where the good guy in white hat shoots the bad guy in black hats pistol out of his hand and the bad guy holds his wrist in distress and no blood. “Good guy” and “bad guy” don’t define this issue any more accurately than “good skipper”and “bad skipper” define rules of navigation.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    If a Teacher is mentally incapable of properly handling a fire arm why should they be trusted to teach children?
    I trust my kids around me and my wife - neither of us is skilled in handling a firearm. My kids trust our grandkids to us. I trust babysitters without asking about their skill in handling firearms. Why would we need teachers who are skilled in the use of firearms?

    While deaths by firearms in schools makes headlines, I am not concerned about them. Perhaps you should direct your concerns to more significant risks in life.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Why do you people entertain such foolish remarks?
    It's a symbiotic thing. Without trolls The Bilge would soon wither. They need each other and they know it.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    let's get this straight. The NYPD, who are trained and re-trained to use their weapons not only on the range, but in the field, can only exhibit a 13% hit rate. How is a teacher, who already works long hours in the school, but has to bring home work to prepare for the next day, AND go to numerous conventions and training classes to keep up current with teaching trends and knowledge, supposed to also get training in how to use a gun in a firefight.

    In a firefight, a police officer has to worry about getting shot and keeping his fellow officers safe.. people who are also well trained. In a classroom, that same teacher would need to keep from getting shot, keep the students from getting shot, trying not to shoot the wrong person, AND keep a classroom full of students quiet while there is a firefight going on? Add to this, if a police officer entered the room with a gun looking for a shooter and came across somebody with a gun aimed at them, it is a recipe for disaster. Just use your brain and try not to boil everything down to the lowest common denominator.
    another False Flag argument...


    arming teachers has NOTHING to do with making them into expert marksmen.... Science and Fact Based research shows that one of the few ways to stop an active shooter is to fight back, not kill them, simply put up some resistence to make them stop targeting victims and take cover themselves.

    a teacher firing their gun in the general direction of a shooter, even firing blanks could well mean the difference between 17 and no victims.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    “good guy”and “bad guy” arguments are nonsense just like the cowboy movies where the good guy in white hat shoots the bad guy in black hats pistol out of his hand and the bad guy holds his wrist in distress and no blood. “Good guy” and “bad guy” don’t define this issue any more accurately than “good skipper”and “bad skipper” define rules of navigation.

    wow... yeah you win.


    what does "Good" or "Bad" really mean any way?... everything is relative.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    the real argument is, If there is an active shooter in a school the best way to reduce loss of life is guns in the hands of good guys... rather than guns only in the hands of the bad guy.
    Then you'll have to explain why as many as four trained, armed cops in Parkland wouldn't enter the school to confront the shooter....

    ...and you think that a teacher with a gun, only minimally trained, is going to be BETTER?

    Or maybe you think that Donald Trump himself is going to enter a school and confront a shooter.... WITHOUT having a gun.....

    After all, he told you he would.

    Didn't you believe him?
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    Then you'll have to explain why as many as four trained, armed cops in Parkland wouldn't enter the school to confront the shooter....

    ...and you think that a teacher with a gun, only minimally trained, is going to be BETTER?
    1st... the teacher is already INSIDE the school... No need to "enter"... which seems to have been the sticking point in Parkland.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    active shooter training include Run Hide and Fight components...


    the "Fight " component typically covers throwing chairs and office supplies at a shooter or picking up a childs desk and charging the assailaint... of course if the people under attack had a gun... then the training could include that as an option for "fighting back"
    That training requires physical skills, risk, motivation and consequences appropriate for an entirely different PROFESSION. My friends fit strong son got a medical discharge with blown knee from the Marines training to be a soldier and you think the average teacher is going to go through adequate training?

    You could have an armed Seal teaching history and he’d be dead from a 17yr old walking in the door simply because the killer has a plan of action no one else has and your super duper armed 30 yr old ninja warrior teacher is spending 99.99999% of their time BEING A TEACHER.
    Last edited by LeeG; 03-11-2018 at 01:34 PM.

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    1st... the teacher is already INSIDE the school... No need to "enter"... which seems to have been the sticking point in Parkland.
    Could you possibly think of a more lame excuse for their cowardice?
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Noyes View Post
    wow... yeah you win.


    what does "Good" or "Bad" really mean any way?... everything is relative.
    No, “good guy” and “bad guy” identifiers have no relevance to addressing the problem. You might as well say white hat, black hat, pink gun, purple gun.

    If there’s an increase in auto accidents in your town do you start defining the problem in terms of good guys and bad guys?

    Of course the killer is a bad guy, of course everyone else is a good guy. Now what?

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    Default Re: If u would not trust a teacher with a GUN, Why would you trust them with a Child?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    No, “good guy” and “bad guy” identifiers have no relevance to addressing the problem. You might as well say white hat, black hat, pink gun, purple gun.

    If there’s an increase in auto accidents in your town do you start defining the problem in terms of good guys and bad guys?

    Of course the killer is a bad guy, of course everyone else is a good guy. Now what?

    well... if only the "bad guy" has a gun he can kill "good guys" until "good guys" from the police station can arrive to stop him... typically 6-8 minutes.

    but if some of the "good guys" already on scene have guns they can immediately scare the "bad guy" off or maybe shoot him, hopefully with out injuring more other "good guys" than the "bad guy" would have injured if allowed to continue shooting "good guys" un-contested.


    that's the basic argument.

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