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Thread: is this true australia?

  1. #1
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    Default is this true australia?

    Most Australians whose ancestors colonized the country live in a handful of cities, and have never ventured into vast untamed regions of the land. "One is always aware of whose land it is," he says. "And it's a weird paradox that we are at one hand aware of that, and yet so many of us clustered in the southeast of the country — you know, which is the most densely settled — can grow up never actually seeing or talking to an Aboriginal person."
    seems pretty pathetic

    story here: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/10/59232...-way-from-home
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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    I think the same could be said about the US. How many of us would dare to venture onto the Pin Ridge Indian Reservation in order to visit the Red Cloud School and look at some of the really great "native" art. Or actually have a conversation with a tribal elder . . . Sure, tourists will drive through the Badlands or go see the Crazy horse Monument, but that's not the real thing . . . Have you Paul? Seems like a nice road trip from Hell.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Sadly the "lost generation" he talks about is not all that uncommon. We did it here in the US too. My great grandmother, who was Seneca, was taken to Carlisle for school and "adopted" into a white family. To explain the differences to the neighbors, she was reffered to as the "Italian cousin" as a way of making light of her darker skin and black hair.

    Now I do not know how the writers in Australia misinformed the population about the Aboriginals, But Hollywood did the same thing here, but on a much broader scale.
    Last edited by Art Haberland; 03-10-2018 at 10:25 AM.
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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    you make a fair point mike, i would say that our sins and crimes against native americans has been and continues to be overshadowed by our individual and institutional treatment of blacks
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Consider geography. The vast middle of Australia is a desert. The southeast more resembles the places our ancestors came from, and the places most human beings on the planet prefer to live if they have a choice.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    you make a fair point mike, i would say that our sins and crimes against native americans has been and continues to be overshadowed by our individual and institutional treatment of blacks
    The PRIR continues to be one of the most poverty stricken places in the US. I have heard whites that live in and around the res, in the res because the US Government has leased some of the res land to white farmers, speak about taking pot shots at any Indians seen off the res. From what I understand, the Native population that lives there is under the same kind of institutional racism that blacks lived under in the South prior to The Civil Rights Movement. Lisa Ling did an episode of Our America highlighting the plight of Lakota Children on the res. Oprah has locked out any "free watching" of the episode but here's a site you should look at the helps some of these children.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    I’m familiar with St Joes; that’s a marketing site you linked. The folks running the school isn’t the most honest you’ll run across. But they get a lot of money donated, enough that they have their ow zip code, post office and mail room. That said, the Reservations are bleak, and are nations unto their own. Institutional poverty- with lots of players benefiting from the system, including some natives. Reservation politics is bare-knuckle.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    I’m familiar with St Joes; that’s a marketing site you linked. The folks running the school isn’t the most honest you’ll run across. But they get a lot of money donated, enough that they have their ow zip code, post office and mail room. That said, the Reservations are bleak, and are nations unto their own. Institutional poverty- with lots of players benefiting from the system, including some natives. Reservation politics is bare-knuckle.
    Thanks for pointing that out George, I fuc41ng hate crappy charities, makes it so hard to find a worthy place to donate money. Do you know of any specific organizations that are well thought of?
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    No; the problem with well meaning folk is, they attract the predators. Habitat has done some work there. The problem- it’s giving a fish , rather than teaching to fish. Lots of parties making money by keep impoverished reservations. I worked a long time ‘trying to make things better’ in that neck of the woods. All taken over and destroyed by big money, making sure they got everything. Not that I’m cynical!��
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    No; the problem with well meaning folk is, they attract the predators. Habitat has done some work there. The problem- it’s giving a fish , rather than teaching to fish. Lots of parties making money by keep impoverished reservations. I worked a long time ‘trying to make things better’ in that neck of the woods. All taken over and destroyed by big money, making sure they got everything. Not that I’m cynical!��
    You are not wrong. Habitat is a religious organization anyway and I refuse to give to religious organizations. Not that I'm cynical either.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    I wrestled with Blackfoot, Crow, Kootenai and more when I was a kid in Montana. They were often oddly tougher than they looked. (Poor nutrition, active lifestyles?)

    But anyway, yeah, it took a little extra nerve to tussle with them, at least at first.

    Barney Pablo from Polson was my arch rival for a couple years.

    We need a name for this kind of post. Am I experience signaling?

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Maybe. My daughter had a rival on swim team- native. They’d be reaching across the lane ropes, trying to slow the other. Coach was amazed that 6 yo girls would be so competitive.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    George, just out of curiousity, did you ever know Dr Martin Brokenleg? I think he's from around that area.

    What are you doing about it?




  14. #14
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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Don’t recall that name.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Truthfully - Australia isn't like the states - the vast interior is mostly nothing. The grandness and diversity we have here in North America is quite special.

    I do do love me some outback though. I try to avoid eating the whole blooming onion myself.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Don’t recall that name.
    He's done some very interesting work on resilience.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Seems pretty right. With some rare exceptions our aboriginal population live in very poor conditions. A lot of social disadvantage, poverty and unemployment if they live in the cities, and pretty much third world conditions in the bush. We grapp,e with the problem constantly but no one has come close to a working solution. More welfare, less welfare, take the children away and integrate them with white Australians, yes, we really did that, business creation, mining royalties, job quotas, reserved lands. It's all pretty much failed so far.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    The Puyallup Tribe shares boundaries with Tacoma. Very politically active here especially about environmental issues.
    I interact with native Americans at my coffee shop and at Fred Meyers a couple of times a week.

    I heard somewhere that the largest population of Native Americans is in Los Angeles.
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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    What Phil said.I worked on a aborigine community in the bush for a year once, an unusual experience for most.
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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    is this signaling?
    No, I detect a sincerity here; this thread has the potential to be thoughtful, useful and good.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    No, I detect a sincerity here; this thread has the potential to be thoughtful, useful and good.
    If you were the arbiter of such things, the world would be truly effed up.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    A lot of aboriginal land is not accessible without applying for and being granted a permit to visit.
    They have , in the main , a lot of real problems , and trying to solve them seems impossible.
    One thing that is showing promise is sport.
    Big sporting clubs are sponsoring groups of aboriginal kids down to the big cities , getting them in to private schools , mentoring them , getting them in to sport.
    Showing them a future.
    http://www.kgi.org.au/
    http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/20...-participation .
    The RFC and other clubs have long tried to help the aboriginal kids that come down to play football , but still there are heartbreaks , when the young men let them down.
    Now there are clans of aboriginal people or TW Islanders who are making a good go of it , and some not.
    The men and women who do well are a shining light for the kids coming through.
    Hats off to the football clubs , I say.
    Rob J.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    No, I detect a sincerity here; this thread has the potential to be thoughtful, useful and good.
    But then again, if the usual and expected show up to drift the discussion into rudeness and insult, then yeah, it does tend to descend into signaling (to say nothing of ignorance and stupidity).

    It really boils down to the kind of conversation people want to have.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Most Canadians live in cities along the border and never get North of cottage-country.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    I have an acquaintance whose wife is Native American. Her earliest childhood memories are of men in pickup trucks driving along side her, winding the windows down and spitting on her as she walked to school. Don't recall ever hearing about anybody in my country doing that. JayInOz

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    From what I understand the Native Americans in California were especially mistreated. Stories abound of the peaceful native people being shot like dogs for no reason. This will forever be a stain on our legacy.

    I grew up in an area with quite a few reservations around. It seems to me that they tried to pick the worst possible land to give to the Indians. In some areas, like Palm Springs, the reservation is a checkerboard of dis-contiguous 1 mile squares.

    I can’t blame those tribes who remain if they don’t want anything to do with the White Man, but the loss is ours for missing out on their culture and wisdom.

    Ralphie

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    A mix of ignorance , arrogance and principally, financial greed was the fuel that propelled colonial powers and their 'settlers' as they went about their business in the lands that they usurped, irrespective of where the latter were located.

    The Ottoman Turks, Iberians, British, French, Belgians, Italians and even Germans collectively held sway over lands spanning several continents.

    The proportion of religious zeal, financial greed, ignorance, arrogance and perception of humanity varied appreciably amongst the colonial powers, partially explaining the overall outcome of their governance in the lands they colonised.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by carioca1232001 View Post
    A mix of ignorance , arrogance and principally, financial greed was the fuel that propelled colonial powers and their 'settlers' as they went about their business in the lands that they usurped, irrespective of where the latter were located.

    The Ottoman Turks, Iberians, British, French, Belgians, Italians and even Germans collectively held sway over lands spanning several continents.

    The proportion of religious zeal, financial greed, ignorance, arrogance and perception of humanity varied appreciably amongst the colonial powers, partially explaining the overall outcome of their governance in the lands they colonised.
    And Australia was , of course , no different.
    If you are the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    One place that was a little different was NZ. There cavalry had no advantage in the dense forest and the indigenous soon acquired muskets. The result was a pretty even fight , the Maori on the verge of ejecting the whites and the whites on the verge of ejecting the Maori.

    The result was Waitangi, a Treaty acceptable to both parties.
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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    I think most Australians are scared of the bush and certainly don't want to live outside the urban areas. The whole tough outdoors image is pretty much restricted to the beach and the BBQ.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Of course 'most Australians' now consists of a big minority of decendents of post WW2 migration, and by 2030-50 or so they will be the majority. The guilt factor will not be in their history.

    One of my nephews, decendeded from a First Fleeter convict and his Tasmanian Aboriginal wife on one side, and from his Vietnamese mothers part Cambodian background on the other. That is simplification of course, but you get the drift

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    It's funny, just today an American Indian friend of mine posted about a serious racism issue she just encountered. She's not a happy camper.

    Meanwhile, Peter Carey is trying to flog his book. A bit of puffery goes a long way with a gullible audience. I'd have thought that Paul would be less gullible, but there you go. Paul, I've been given some shares in the Sydney Opera House to get away in an IPO. Want some. Can't go wrong.

    Incidentally, I've heard that there are some descendants of the African slaves still in America. Is it true, and have you ever spoken with any?
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    One place that was a little different was NZ. There cavalry had no advantage in the dense forest and the indigenous soon acquired muskets. The result was a pretty even fight , the Maori on the verge of ejecting the whites and the whites on the verge of ejecting the Maori.

    The result was Waitangi, a Treaty acceptable to both parties.
    Which the govt of the day promptly proceeded to ride roughshod over. Successive present day govts have spent about the last 30 years negotiating "full and final settlements" with Iwi (tribal groups), to try and redress some of the wrongs done under the terms of the treaty, and this is ongoing.
    Some Iwi like Ngai Tahu have been extremely successful in establishing diverse business portfolios, that enable them to invest in their people.
    Others much less so - I've been told that in some instances, tribal members elected to take a one-off payment as their share of the settlement. One lot "invested" in the Warriors league team - say no more!

    Pete
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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I think most Australians are scared of the bush and certainly don't want to live outside the urban areas. The whole tough outdoors image is pretty much restricted to the beach and the BBQ.
    Fly over the US from one end to the other (Philly to Houston) and there are obvious signs of habitation, roads etc everywhere.
    Fly over Aus on a Singapore to Christchurch NZ flight, you spend about six hours over nothing but lots of big sandy desert. The very occasional road, The Alice, and five eights of fark all else. The size, environment, and emptiness is bloody intimidating.

    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

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    Default Re: is this true australia?

    I had never seen ,saw a Indian , Then we left NJ.

    Out in the west I asked where day wuz.

    Go over there they sez ..

    So we drive by 20 car roadblock with men in black manning it.

    They wave us through.

    Go up a dirt road, theres a road block of indian looking fellows.

    They wave us through.

    Get to a town of sorts, they stop us and ask us how in the heck did you get here..

    Seems it was the Indian uprising of the 70s, they thought my wife was a indian with the long black hair..

    She has been mistaken for Indian, Hawaii..

    So i felt like steve martin in the jerk.

    They did laugh and escorded us back, you crazy NJ people..

    Since then i have had many Indian friends, Even invited to pow wowies.

    Not to play to stero type but a few got drunk and fought everyone.

    Not me though even if they wuz drunk they liked me..

    On the job, union jobs i always was very intrested in them, they liked that..

    Every one likes it when someone asks about their culture..

    I was VERY surprized to see how redneck cowboys were racist against Indians..

    Course they hated NJ just as much...


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