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Thread: Installing new Nanni engine

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Can't answer those questions but you're going to be doing 7.5 knots into a headwind......

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    That sounds alright!

    Here's a couple of shots from yesterday's and today's tests:

    Nanni test 2.jpg

    Nanni test 1.jpg

    Made up a template this afternoon, to align the engine bed. Photo later - if it works!

    Rick

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post

    I'm also looking for the anode. Can't find anything in the manual or on the engine - where the blazes is it?

    Rick
    Look at the exhaust mixing ellbow inside the bend, there should be a small hex plug. If it's not there your engine does not have zincs.

    Depending on setup at idle fuel may return or not.

    John B what exactly do your genius mechanics think they are doing by boring holes in a finely tuned metering valve? Gently warming up the heat exchanger or impeding engine warmup? What they are actually doing is screwing with the metering function of the thermostat.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    On the question of modifying thermostats, Renault Clios had an issue with warping the rear of the cylinder head due to heat build up, bad case of design on the engineering side, but the fix to that was to do exactly what John B mechanic mates suggested, and drill out the hole to allow more fluid through.
    I once ran a car with an overheating issue, so i removed the thermostat completely, and the car ran cold enough to get me to work and home without cooking itself; it did not address the real issue of most likely blocked up waterways and a clogged radiator, but as a short term remedy, by-passing a thermostat is a common thing. I have never even got my Perkins 152 into "normal", even when towing 4 tons up gradients.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    I agree that modifying or bypassing thermostats is common, but that is usually a cheap and poor fix for a bigger problem. If an engine needs that to run well the problem is elsewhere. Either in design (insufficient heat exchanging area) or more often the heat exchanging area is diminished by impropper use (by example using tap water in the primary instead of distilled water/glycol mix).

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    The idea behind drilling I small hole in the flat part of the thermostat is so air can pass though for bleeding purposes. If air gets trapped behind thermostat, it can pop open quickly and let a slug of cold water into a hot engine. A wax pellet thermostat is not a precision device. I've done this on a few vehicles over 40 years. The temp has to be kept down on a salt water engine because the salt starts coating things and reduce passage size, particularly on engines without heat exchanger. The anode may be hex plug somewhere in the cooling system, can be hard to find and it may not have one. Is it a heat exchanger engine?
    the invisible man........

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Just looked at the first pic, it does have an integral heat exchanger. Re hole in tstat, 5/32 or 3/16 max, not much water will flow through this but air will
    the invisible man........

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    I'll check the elbow!

    The Bukh is raw water cooled and running very hot these days. The Nanni has a big heat exchanger that I hope will keep things very cool.

    Rick

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Fit a decent raw water strainer. New exchangers on fresh water cooling are quite narrow waterways and do not take well to ingesting jelly fish....

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    I'm reading this with a great deal of interest as I did a repower in 2009.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post

    I'm also looking for the anode. Can't find anything in the manual or on the engine - where the blazes is it?

    Rick
    My new Westerbeke has one on the raw water side of the heat exchanger. Same thing for the Volvo Penta that I took out.


    https://www.westerbeke.com/operator'...%20rev%205.pdf

    pp 19.
    Will

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    My two “Perkins” engines have no anode .They are isolated from the shaft by a flex drive( required).

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    What Perkins is that Wiz? My 4-107 doesn't have an annode that I can find, and is hard mounted to the shaft. There is a zinc on the shaft at the prop. Hope I'm not asking for trouble with that setup.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    If the Bukh is running hot it needs descaling. Now Bukh will tell you not to do it because the engine has wet liners and they are concerned about the O-rings. Certainly frecvent descaling with an acid solution is contraindicated, but descalers wich don't attack seals do exist (check with boiler and steam outfits for specific products). In your case I would first run the engine in a closed circuit with a hot water/dish detergent mix to remove any oil contaminations, then with a mixture of hot water/citric acid (it's cheap, but you can use other acids or commercial solutions), then flush with fresh water until clean.
    If you sell the engine a cool running one will bring more.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    Look at the exhaust mixing ellbow inside the bend, there should be a small hex plug. If it's not there your engine does not have zincs.

    Depending on setup at idle fuel may return or not.

    John B what exactly do your genius mechanics think they are doing by boring holes in a finely tuned metering valve? Gently warming up the heat exchanger or impeding engine warmup? What they are actually doing is screwing with the metering function of the thermostat.
    My genius mechanics are highly respected marine engineers.
    Take it or leave it. No skin off my nose.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    What Perkins is that Wiz? My 4-107 doesn't have an annode that I can find, and is hard mounted to the shaft. There is a zinc on the shaft at the prop. Hope I'm not asking for trouble with that setup.
    I have a Perama M-20 and a Volvo MD 20 -40. Both gearboxes have warning stickers to not hard bolt them to the shaft.
    i use a single zinc on shaft near the prop on both boats as well . I dunno the end game here . I do like the flex coupling , I prefer the R and D one to the more solid red one .
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 03-08-2018 at 02:43 PM.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    Fit a decent raw water strainer. New exchangers on fresh water cooling are quite narrow waterways and do not take well to ingesting jelly fish....
    Yes, I already have that - thanks! The Nanni needs a larger water intake hose though so I'll be installing a new skin fitting and valve, and I'm yet to check whether the existing strainer is adaptable to the larger hose. The siphon break I have is adaptable.

    Thanks for the tips re anodes. The manual lists checking of the zinc anode in the maintenance schedule, which is why I suspect there might be one. I'll check the places suggested.

    At this stage, I intend to install a Polyflex flexible coupling. As noted above, I'm yet to check shaft and prop suitability. I'm sure the prop will need to be tweaked, at least. It's a 3-blade folding Volvo prop. I call it the wildlife magnet. It doesn't seem to matter what i do to it - Propspeed, AF, polishing, it picks up every barnacle and other sticky thing in Port Stephens!

    As far as the thermostat goes, knowing nothing whatsoever about them, I'll leave it as it is, at least until I see what temperature the engine runs at, and I'll definitely pick up an IR gun.

    I now have to cut the bottom out of the cockpit so I need to work out a way of sealing the cockpit from rain while I'm doing this work. I think I'll use a sheet of plywood with a strip of rubbery foam for the seal, and clamp it down from below with several battens running across. I should be able to leave the forward section with the two drains, where it is.

    Rick
    Last edited by RFNK; 03-08-2018 at 03:41 PM.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    If the Bukh is running hot it needs descaling. Now Bukh will tell you not to do it because the engine has wet liners and they are concerned about the O-rings. Certainly frecvent descaling with an acid solution is contraindicated, but descalers wich don't attack seals do exist (check with boiler and steam outfits for specific products). In your case I would first run the engine in a closed circuit with a hot water/dish detergent mix to remove any oil contaminations, then with a mixture of hot water/citric acid (it's cheap, but you can use other acids or commercial solutions), then flush with fresh water until clean.
    If you sell the engine a cool running one will bring more.
    Yes, I'll be doing that. The alternator also needs to be checked.

    A friend from NZ (unohoo JB) also suggested removing the Bukh flywheel before removing the engine, to lighten the lifting. I'll be doing that too!

    Rick

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    When you replace the through hull and ball valve, check the ID of the valve. Some valves have the same ID ball for several sizes e.g the TruDesign 1/2'' , 3/4'' and 1'' all have the same ID ball . Avoid an elbow screwed to the valve, better to have a straight tail fitting and a gradual bend of reinforced hose to the strainer. Makes rodding a blockage easier.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    I changed the raw water ball valve in the water last year. Good times, good times.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    My Yanmar makes no mention of an anode in the owners manual or maintenance schedule as far as I can find. I'd have thought there should be one somewhere in the salt water side of the heat exchanger. It worries me.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Rick, bronze skin fitting and valve, with a backing block is recommended. Getting a bronze valve that is not a ball valve is not easy these days. I fiited a Perko ball valve but replaced the nylon ball with a bronze one I had. Would prefer the old taper style valve, assembled with lanolin. Simple and accessable if needed.

    Rumars, thats a good tip for descaling raw water cooled engines.

    JMadison, if have thought that a anode could be made. Find a unused plug or fitting in the cooling system and make up a plug that could hold some zinc or melt some zinc into a plug or do something with a welch plug hole. The hot rod people have access to some sort of welch plug that can be fitted and tightened with a spanner.
    the invisible man........

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Yes, bronze of course and I'll be checking the actual floe capacity. I'm fine with installing skin fittings etc. I removed large, old and very clunky taper valves from Masina not long ago and replaced them with good ball valves. One day I may have time to recondition them and put them back in. They are a nice fitting. Can you get 25mm bronze taper valves I wonder?

    Rick

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    The 2nd one is about $480 for 1" ouch but could be made, either casting or machine from solid. The 1st one looks like it might be less susceptible to fouling. Good thing about the 2nd one is that a T can be fitted to the outlet with a heavy hose to above the WL. If blocked, take the cap of the hose and, with valve open, a blocked inlet can be cleared with a long piece of heavy wire then cap replaced, I have done this on Ghost
    the invisible man........

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Engine zincs can be clever... and really important, because once they are gone, your engine is going next.

    Mostly they are "pencil zincs" but Yanmar for example sometimes uses a cover on the water jacket (somewhere, held on with a couple of bolts, looking a bit like a thermostat) that has an anode held on to it with a stud and nut arrangement. Often they are painted with the engine and not readily apparent.
    Often they are completely eroded away and when you remove the plug, or nut whatever, there is nothing there!
    These below are all varietys of Yanmar engine anodes, they are inexpensive.
    Pencil zincs



    Another type (this bolts to the inside of a cover)



    And yet another...


  26. #61
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    I think I'll just stick with good quality ball valve at this point.

    I'll see if I can find that anode this afternoon.

    Rick

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    I can't find that damned anode! Perhaps it would be easier if Nanni hadn't sprayed every single thing blue, including, I'll bet, any neighbouring houses .... Reminds me of that Mr Bean episode where he paints the room with a stick of dynamite in a paint can. I do know this: Old Nanni exhaust elbows are cast iron. My old Nanni in the Folkboat had one. After a few years, they explode - quietly, steadily but completely. A few years ago, Nanni replaced this range with alloy ones that have an anode. Unfortunately, they're expensive things but, nevertheless, I'm wondering if I should get a new one now so that I won't have the drama of a disintegrating elbow down the track. The other option is to keep it on, and scrub it out every year when I service the engine, and see how many years I'll get out of it. I will call the very tolerant guy at Nanni though and just see if there's an anode on my engine.

    Rick
    Last edited by RFNK; 03-09-2018 at 04:31 AM.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Rick this is the current model of ehaust ellbow sold by Nanny for your engine. It's cast aluminium.
    coude-echappement-970301706-nanni-diesel-970301706apr_1.jpg
    The anode is a pencil type ande and sits in the hole beside the nipple for the injection port. As I already meantioned, either it's there or you have one of the old cast iron ellbows, without zincs. If that's the case keep it, it will give you a few years of service. After that you can fabricate your own out of stainless.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Okay, thanks! Yes, the one I have is definitely cast iron.

    Rick

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    A timely find - I often check our local second hand book shop, as it's a great source of boat books. Today I found Propellor Handbook: The Complete Reference for Choosing, Installing and Understanding Boat Propellors by Dave Gerr. I've no idea whether it's any good but it looks pretty good to me!

    Rick

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Its a good read if you can digest it......took me a couple of readings. I came to the coclusion that i would need 6 different props to suit different loadings, if you are looking for maximum propellor effect, i ended up with a Bruntons self pitcher to solve the different pitch options......and less drag when sailing.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    I'm hoping that the Volvo folding prop I have has variable pitch but I haven't looked into that yet.

    Rick

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Rick, make sure the valve doesn't have a stainless ball. Re props, there is a bit of art in prop selection. Sometimes you have to make your selection and then be willing to adjust. Best to find a second hand prop close to your requirements and go from there. I recall something about pitching/sizing to make good progress in adverse conditions. The prop needs to be big enough to absorb the power of the engine at near max engine/gearbox rpm and hopefully you are at the hull speed. Too much power, boat tries to climb out of water, not enough, below hull speed. The art of this is finding the right horsepower/gearbox combo to suit the general prop size and hull speed requirements (which includes hull shape and rig/superstructure drag). This is more complicated than propeller driven aircraft which just go faster or slower. Long time ago I paid for a internet prop calculator but I think they are free on the net now, the book is good but, as stated, difficult to digest but useful for understanding the general requirements. Good luck!
    the invisible man........

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    There may not be an anode on the engine, I think manufactures info is needed here
    the invisible man........

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Installing new Nanni engine

    Prop question #1 is rotation. Probably both r/h, but it isnt' a given. Plenty of people have been caught out by that one.
    My perkins is left, for example.
    Do you know if the gearbox is the same ratio?

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