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Thread: Sail and oar for boat sharing

  1. #1
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    Default Sail and oar for boat sharing

    I am planning to launch a boat sharing service, non profit for the local community, and and pondering the ideal boat:

    • no engine
    • very simple, unstayed rig (probably balanced lug)
    • two rowing positions
    • can take some rough handling
    • 14-17 ft.


    Is epoxy ply strong enough? What is best surface treatment for such a boat?

    Here is one suggestion (Vivier Creizic)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    An interesting idea. Will this be organized as some type of member-owned cooperative? Will potential boat users get training in how to rig and care for the boat? What's the budget? Who will build the boats? (Just some of my initial questions, not meant as a discouragement).

    I'm not all that up on sail-and-oar boats with two rowing positions--but if it might work to have a single rower and simply trade off (this has worked well for me while cruising), then Ross Lillistone's Phoenix III design is an excellent boat. Don Kurylko's Alaska design is another, with two rowing stations. The usual Oughtred double-enders, also.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Depends on how often you might need to touch up. Epoxy coated with polyurethane 2-pack paint is going to be the hardest wearing and longest lived.......but can be a real pain to touch up small damaged areas. I would go for a single pack paint over epoxy, just for the ease of touching up.
    I must mention my pet hate subject.....how do you stand with liability and insurance? I have found that most Swedes at least wont sign a disclaimer, and "commercial" insurance means coded and tested boats.
    I would at least choose a design that will support all its crew in a flooded condition, as a first priority.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Arch Davis Design Penobscot 14

    2 rowing stations
    Sprit, Lug or gunter options









    (Image Small Boats Monthly/Kent Lewis)


    (Image Small Boats Monthly/A. Lewis)

    A good place to take a nap



    or Woods Hole Spritsail boat

  5. #5
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    508

    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    If you put sweat and love into building a boat be sure you'll be OK having renters beat it up. Some people can, some people would lose their minds.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    I plan to organize it as a cooperative (an "SA"). See more information here:https://www.samvirke.org/english.aspx
    One component paint for ease of touch-up!
    Penobscot 14 is probably simpler to build than the Vivier design, otherwise not so different.
    And yes, the boat shall have to be registered, approved and insured.
    We shall see how things develop!
    Thanks for useful comment.....still open for more.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    How important are looks? Could assembly teamwork classes of a kit be worthwhile? I know Vivier does kits, but a CLC Skerry is quite a simple build, light, and adequate performance. Im not sure if 2-up rowing is good for beginers, it does take some time to master good technique with another body......you might need to think of good blade protection on the oar tips.
    I would think stable is going to be a good way to define what might suit, good rowing boats are normally a bit tippy.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Check with the insurer and/or with any boat liveries (rental businesses) to see what is required for design and safety on boats like these. That might have a large impact on what boat design you end up building. As much as I hate to say it, a fiberglass hull might be better suited to take the sort of abuse that new boaters can give boats like these, particularly when landing and getting in and out of the boat on rocky shores.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Thorne is right, the most damage is done when beaching or landing. I had a pair of cosine wherries as rentals for a while, never had any damage from the rental, one was crushed by a tree during winter storage in my yard. The rules of rental were that boats were not to be landed except at the rental dock (same as the center for wooden boats in Seattle i think). People are generally carefull with the boats, but can do damage through in-experience. My partner in the rental adventure had a fleet of kayaks and canoes, and would try to get the most in-experienced ones onto the rowboat. He said that at least one a month would fall out of a canoe or kayak, but in three years, only one managed to fall out of the rowboat.

    rgds

    Rick
    oysterbayboats.ca

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Ideally I would prefer a sail and oar boat made in aluminium, or one made in fiberglass, but I cannot find any. Most are made for an outboard, then rowing for emergency.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Two rowing stations for rowing two-up? Or for trim? Penobscot 14 might be a little tight two-up...

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Ideally I would prefer a sail and oar boat made in aluminium,
    I am pretty sure that any boat designed for sheet plywood construction can be built in aluminum. You'd have to learn to weld. I realize this is the Woodenboat Forum, but since you brought it up, I thought I would mention that.

    Back to wood, I like the looks of that Vivier Creizic: very salty and robust looking.


    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Thanks - I know of an aluminium Oughtred Tirrik....

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Quote Originally Posted by kleppar View Post
    Ideally I would prefer a sail and oar boat made in aluminium, or one made in fiberglass, but I cannot find any. Most are made for an outboard, then rowing for emergency.
    My friend Rob Bouma builds CY 's and Tirriks in aluminium, simple, strong, beautifull and with big flotation tanks. He has shipped once a boat to the US. Www.jachtwerfdezeeg.nl
    Frank

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Update: My attention has been brought to a new design by Mr Vivier - Kernic.
    Salmo 18 is a stitch and glue boat, and very similar to Kernic.

    I intend to make a simple Chinese lug rig (one mast only), made by my friend Arne Kverneland. You can see his junk rigged IF here.

    Kernic can have up to four rowers.
    static1.squarespace.com.jpg

    I am also in contact with Rob Bouma for an aluminium boat.
    Last edited by kleppar; 05-18-2018 at 12:38 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Is there a reason not to use a faering? Rigged with a fore and aft sail? Oil finish for durability and ease of fixing. Otherwise the simplest most stable and durable designs are flatbottom skiffs. In traditional build something like Pete Culler's Good Little Skiff. I think there are kit versions of these but they are light, and light means less stable.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Fuller View Post
    Is there a reason not to use a faering? Rigged with a fore and aft sail? Oil finish for durability and ease of fixing. Otherwise the simplest most stable and durable designs are flatbottom skiffs. In traditional build something like Pete Culler's Good Little Skiff. I think there are kit versions of these but they are light, and light means less stable.
    With occasional boat people in mind, a færing is not very stable; traditional ones also have no buoyancy in case of capsizing...A seksæring (three rowing stations) is much more stable, but there are not many of them around.

    Besides, I really like François Vivier´s boats, and am the owner of a Jewell.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    The other more stable Norse design would be a pram style. Don't remember the Norse word. Some are quite small as you know but there are larger ones like the one in the Norse maritime museum. I'm thinking about the maintenance of the boats; oil is really easy and traditional, like the fleet at the Hardanger museum. The keip is also really simple, keeps the oars under control and doesn't break like thole's or get lost like oar locks.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Sail and oar for boat sharing

    pram.jpg

    keip.jpg
    thole.jpg
    Yes, we have several versions of the pram; not so common at the coast, more common at lakes. I agree about keip (second photo), that or the French system (third photo), with a thole pin through the oar.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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