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Thread: Federalist Paper 27

  1. #1
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    Default Federalist Paper 27

    Forgive me if th9is has been posted before in the multitudinous gun thread.

    Alexander Hamilton explains the second amendment.

    My take: A standing army is expensive. Let each state have it's own volunteer army AKA "A well regulated militia".

    It's fairly heavy reading.


    https://www.congress.gov/resources/d...alistPapers-27

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    Forgive me if th9is has been posted before in the multitudinous gun thread.

    Alexander Hamilton explains the second amendment.

    My take: A standing army is expensive. Let each state have it's own volunteer army AKA "A well regulated militia".

    It's fairly heavy reading.


    https://www.congress.gov/resources/d...alistPapers-27
    In about 30 years after the democrats have ascended to complete control, have replaced the right wing nuts on the sc, only then will we we have a proper interpretation of the Constitution.

    In the mean time.......

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    "None are so blind as those who will not see."
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    I've read these while having the same argument with pearldog back in the day. He refused to acknowledge any point relating to a well regulated militia.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    ...the right will ignore that the sentence begins, "A well-regulated militia..."
    You've had 240 odd years to figure out that sentence, once again the right is more intelligent.

    When are you coming back to the midcoast, we can have a beer and discuss how confused you are.

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    .

    PDAWG made you look foolish.
    Lol, PDAWG refused to acknowledge the other parts of the document. However, you being the expert on looking foolish makes me think I need to look in the mirror and check myself.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    ...the right will ignore that the sentence begins, "A well-regulated militia..."
    Again, order of mention matters.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    ...the right will ignore that the sentence begins, "A well-regulated militia..."
    Wow, it's going to take a lot of beer. We better invite Pless.

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    I have had beers with a lot of forum members, but none so clever as you.
    I bet they were all quite a bit nicer also, work in progress. Some day you too can be a decent human being.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    I strongly support the 2nd amendment.

    I think anyone has the constitutional right to own a muzzle-loading flintlock rifle or pistol.

    After all, conservatives believe in 'original intent', don't they?
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  11. #11
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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    I have heard/read that back in colonial times "well regulated" meant well equipped
    Norman, please don't go down that path. I value your posts too much to wait for them to be rendered with a quill pen

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Madison's earlier draft further reinforces the militia context of the amendment:

    The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.
    As Pearldog argued, "why didn't it make it into the final draft then?" You can't argue with stupid, and arguing with smart stupid is almost bad for your health. Regardless, no right was meant to be taken to the extreme 2nd has been taken, they all exist within the context of the other, one should never being able to override the other. Then, to put a finer point on the issue, all of the rights recognized by the constitution are also limited by the idea that your rights end where mine begin. This alone, in the hands of a truly impartial SCOTUS, would allow for relatively strict regulation of firearms. Funny thing is, if the NRA were smart, or, in fact, a gun rights group rather than a propaganda arm of the right, they would recognize that the growing issue with mass shootings and gun violence in general was a direct threat to what they are supposedly fighting for and they would find a way to curb it as not to have it curbed for them in the name of protecting the right to life, liberty, ant the pursuit of happiness that we also all should be allowed to enjoy.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    I have heard/read that back in colonial times "well regulated" meant well equipped
    Norman, please don't go down that path. I value your posts too much to wait for them to be rendered with a quill pen
    source?
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
    So many questions, so little time.

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
    A description of the contemporary condition, not the intended permanent state of it.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Perhaps. It is 12 years on from 1776, however.
    So many questions, so little time.

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by delecta View Post
    Wow, it's going to take a lot of beer. We better invite Pless.
    i've long felt, arguing original intent, especially with regards to the second amendment, from either the left or the right, is a fool's errand

    but if there's beer, i'll be there

    if anybody shows up 'open carrying' though, i'm getting the hell out. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by ishmael View Post
    Perhaps. It is 12 years on from 1776, however.
    And yet the country's overall condition and technological advancement hadn't really changed much in those intervening 12 years. Now, 230 years later, we can say that things have changed a lot. We have a very strong military for one. And I and another guy can buy rifles off the shelf that would allow us to take out an entire company of revolutionary era soldiers within a few mins, without them even seeing us or reacting to us in time to stop us.
    Last edited by McMike; 03-04-2018 at 02:28 PM.
    "Please be more specific or we'll choose to order a cheaper bilge-rat to replace you."

    ~seanz

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    I have heard/read that back in colonial times "well regulated" meant well equipped
    Norman, please don't go down that path. I value your posts too much to wait for them to be rendered with a quill pen
    I think that you are going to have to link to some authority that supports that assertion.
    This disagrees with you. http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html
    and
    The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment: 1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations." 1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world." 1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial." 1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor." 1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding." 1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city." The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected.
    Which seems to be more about "right thinking" or competent and experienced than anything else.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    In the Bilge I match tone.
    Unfortunately it's deaf at times.

    Oh, I'll get the store to put the beer in a paper bag, we have canceled carry here Pless, no permit needed

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    So an EBS at Delecta’s place. Please don't schedule it before the 21st.
    Of course, you could come To the boat builders show in Portland. I’ll even invite you to Steven and Mary’s house after.

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    Default Re: Federalist Paper 27

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    So an EBS at Delecta’s place. Please don't schedule it before the 21st.
    Of course, you could come To the boat builders show in Portland. I’ll even invite you to Steven and Mary’s house after.
    Hey, now there is an idea. Delecta has been sitting down back now for 15 years and probably has three old covers that need to be torn off, the cover frame rebuilt and a fresh cover applied. I'm trying to preserve her until my boys are big enough to help in the restoration. They are 11 and 13. I'd like to think I have her in an ideal place, basically picture a sand pit (cliff), she is tight against one side with large trees all around.

    Probably should start on her, by the time I'm almost done they might take interest.

    If you have Maynard Bray's, Worthy of the Sea, You can look up my pretty little sloop.

  23. #23
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    I think that you are going to have to link to some authority that supports that assertion.
    This disagrees with you. http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html
    and
    Which seems to be more about "right thinking" or competent and experienced than anything else.

    Indeed. And the term “regulars”, as in “British Regulars” comes from their being “well-regulated” soldiers, which is to say, well-disciplined, well-trained and properly armed and equipped.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

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