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Thread: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

  1. #1
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    Default Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    I have some beautifully clear Fir 1X6's that I plan to use for my Catboat's sole. From reading various posts, it seems that Cetol would be a good choice. I'd like the finish to be clear, and satin/low gloss. After doing some Googling, I'm a bit confused with the wide variety of variations of the product. I'd like some suggestions as to which to use, and also a source - Amazon list dozens, adding to my confusion. Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    What you're looking for is 'Sikkens Cetol Marine'.

    It comes in 3 colors. The original(ish) is simply called 'Cetol'. Then there's 'Cetol Light'. And finally my favorite - 'Cetol Natural Teak'.

    It's a two-step & two-part process. First you coat with whichever Cetol color you wish. Then you topcoat with Cetol 'Gloss'.

    Good products. Decent durability. Quite easy to refresh the finish.

    But it may not be the product you want.

    1. It's NOT going to be 'clear' like spar varnish. The first, or color, coat makes sure of that. And, because that coat contains a lot of pigment and UV additives, and because that color coat doesn't get wiped off like a stain would be... it's even less clear than spar varnish over dye of most pigment stains would be.

    2. It's NOT going to be satin, it's going to be gloss. You can fix that - potentially by adding flatting paste (but talk to their tech support line before you try that), and certainly by scuffing the topcoat with scotchbrite pads, which will knock the sheen back. But that means either extra product to buy... or extra work to do.

    3. When you say 'fir' - do you mean Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii)? If so, it's a rather splintery species to use for a sole. That doesn't mean that it's totally unsuitable, but it does mean you want to keep any film finish applied well coated - to keep any incipient splinters from surfacing and piercing your feet/body. Cetol might not be the best choice to accomplish that.

    4. BONUS THOUGHT - any film finish you apply to your sole is going to be more slippery than raw wood (like teak left to weather)... or wood with only an oil/varnish blend (my fave is Daly's SeaFin Teak Oil). Unless you plan on adding some sort of non-skid material to the final coat of your film finish.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Yeah, what David said. Cetol is a very polarizing product among forum members and I'm a true believer, but probably not for your application.
    Everything changes . Everything is connected . Pay attention

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    And whatever you use, be sure to coat all surfaces...front, back, sides, and especially the end grain. IMO

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    I put a single coat of thinned out one part poly varnish on the sole. Just enough to help repel water and dirt, not too much to make it slippery.
    You might want to rip the 6 inch wide boards into 3,2 inchers.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    The CetolSikkens teak at least does not go orangy, but the product itself is a bit soft for a boat sole unless you are fanatical about boat shoes or bare feet. It is easy to apply and easy to renew so could be worth the effort. It's considerably less slippery than varnish.

    But still not as nonskid as oil. If you go oil, don't go linseed as that will gradually blacken. Tongue or neetsfoot oil or a propriatary "teak oil" will work but my personal fav for the real feel of the thing is Kirby's "Salty Dog".


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    The CetolSikkens teak at least does not go orangy, but the product itself is a bit soft for a boat sole unless you are fanatical about boat shoes or bare feet. It is easy to apply and easy to renew so could be worth the effort. It's considerably less slippery than varnish.

    But still not as nonskid as oil. If you go oil, don't go linseed as that will gradually blacken. Tongue or neetsfoot oil or a propriatary "teak oil" will work but my personal fav for the real feel of the thing is Kirby's "Salty Dog".


    Plus it smells really good!
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Linseed oil won’t go black if you use the good stuff. At least it hasn’t on my dinghys’ floorboards. But it’s only been 8 or 9 years so far...

    http://www.solventfreepaint.com/cleaned_linseed_oil.htm

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Cetol makes a much better product for walking on, called DEK. (And DEK Base, the undercoat preparation for it.)

    I used it on my porch at home and liked it. Thus later I used it on Drake's hand-rails (on the cabin roof, which get walked on) and planked bowsprit. It wears well and where you walk it soon gets a satin finish with a bit of grip.

    But lately I've painted quite a bit of Drake's deck and added non-skid. Frankly, it's much better under your feet. No sliding.

    Perhaps you could add some non-skid to cetoled portions of these fir planks of yours? You can just sprinkle it on before the coating dries.

    When you're by yourself, falling and being hurt is a serious risk. Or falling and ending up over the side. And as you get older, you do not become more sure-footed.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    I would not use Cetol by Sikkens for the sole of the boat.
    Sikkens has color which is red iron oxide and protects from UV rays.
    It is about 64% effective compared to 25% for varnish.
    The sun is not shining that much on the sole unless it is an open boat.

    I would use what the pros use for basket ball courts since it will get foot traffic.
    I love the smell of fresh cut plywood in the morning.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Cetol makes a much better product for walking on, called DEK. (And DEK Base, the undercoat preparation for it.)

    I used it on my porch at home and liked it. Thus later I used it on Drake's hand-rails (on the cabin roof, which get walked on) and planked bowsprit. It wears well and where you walk it soon gets a satin finish with a bit of grip.

    .
    Do you mean Deks Olje, Dave? Not made by the same people as Cetol and a much better product in my opinion. Also a two part oil system it without the aweful color. And longer lasting.

    http://www.deksolje.com/

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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Unless they changed the formula, I don't think there is any UV protection in any of the three translucent bases. I think the gloss clear is the UV shield for the base. At least that's the way it used to be. When I was in Key West I got 18+ months from Cetol with the clear coat vs half that without the clear.
    Everything changes . Everything is connected . Pay attention

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by WHYankee View Post
    Unless they changed the formula, I don't think there is any UV protection in any of the three translucent bases. I think the gloss clear is the UV shield for the base. At least that's the way it used to be. When I was in Key West I got 18+ months from Cetol with the clear coat vs half that without the clear.
    I had always thought there were UV additives in both the color coat and the gloss coat of Cetol Marine. But I could be wrong. I actually thought there was more UV protection in the color coat. But I don't recall where I got that - so it could be just an assumption.

    OTOH - it would make sense. Because there are pigments in the color coat (it's 'translucent', not 'transparent') - whether there is additional sacrificial UV content - that alone will protect the wood from UV degradation. Maybe someone will come along who knows for sure...
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Perhaps Coelan would be an option for clear coating
    http://www.coelan-boat.com/home

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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Do you mean Deks Olje, Dave? Not made by the same people as Cetol and a much better product in my opinion. Also a two part oil system it without the aweful color. And longer lasting.

    http://www.deksolje.com/
    Well... once again I have to repeat... Cetol Marine, even the 'original', no longer looks like the old Cetol. It no longer will turn your stomach with its weird fluorescent orange cast. The three new colors are fairly decent. I even rather like the 'Natural Teak'.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Well... once again I have to repeat... Cetol Marine, even the 'original', no longer looks like the old Cetol. It no longer will turn your stomach with its weird fluorescent orange cast. The three new colors are fairly decent. I even rather like the 'Natural Teak'.
    but it's still Cetol.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    but it's still Cetol.
    No arguing with that. And it still tastes just as good!
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    but it's still Cetol.
    +1

    As Ian said, Kirby's Salty Dog is good stuff. I got an email from Kirby's the other day. For the first time in ten years, they are raising prices to keep up with materials costs, but they have a free shipping program for all orders over $99 and a "reward and loyalty program," that provides coupons for discounts on future purchases.

    That said, there are two "old time" options that work well. One is a 50%/50% mix of good quality linseed oil (raw or "boiled" doesn't seem to matter, although the raw will take longer to dry) and turpentine. I've used this a lot and never had problems with it "blackening" if it's kept clean. I have seen a lot of oils turn black if left to collect the dust and dirt which does then stick to it.

    The second option is to use a home deck sealer, like Flood's CWF-UV or Thompson's Waterseal. These products are designed for sealing home decks and siding from water and weather. They do not affect the appearance of the raw wood, but after application, water will simply bead up on the surface.

    After a while, six months to a year, depending on the foot traffic and sun exposure, a reapplication is usually required, but prep is merely a washdown and maybe a brush scrub to remove dirt. (No sanding.) The coating doesn't build up and application is very easy... it goes on like water.

    I've had good results using it on decks that were left natural, but didn't have the properties of teak, which can easily be left bare and be easily restored with a bit of citric or oxalic acid solution swabbing.
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 03-04-2018 at 06:50 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by artif View Post
    Perhaps Coelan would be an option for clear coating
    http://www.coelan-boat.com/home
    I used Coelan on Anthéa 's rails. Nine years ago. With no touch up since.
    By this time Anthéa sailed the med, Caribean, and USA.
    I have to redo them now, only because of shafing and impact!
    Still in good shape, and pretty hard to remove, on most places.
    9 years !
    Didn't use it for sole though, but it's said to be ok for decks, and can have non skid additive.
    Available in the US :
    http://www.coelan-boat.com/coelan-traders
    Last edited by Rapelapente; 03-05-2018 at 03:14 AM.
    Gerard.
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Can you get some stuff called "Osmo" in USA? Their Decking oil might do an excellent job.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    The so-called orange cast of cetol can be much diminished simply by referring to it as 'caramel'. Mmmmm, caramel - rich and delicious.
    caramel.jpg

    See?

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Mmmmmm butterscotch

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Yeah buts its still Cetol

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    That's it then - I'm just going to paint over it.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by darroch View Post
    The so-called orange cast of cetol can be much diminished simply by referring to it as 'caramel'. Mmmmm, caramel - rich and delicious.
    caramel.jpg

    See?
    If you've been around long enough to have seen the original in use... you'd know this is a vast improvement. And the least pleasing of the 3 current flavors.

    While I'm still of the opinion that Cetol would be the wrong product for this application... let's make such judgments based upon facts, not upon outdated info and prejudice, eh?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    If you've been around long enough to have seen the original in use... you'd know this is a vast improvement. And the least pleasing of the 3 current flavors.

    While I'm still of the opinion that Cetol would be the wrong product for this application... let's make such judgments based upon facts, not upon outdated info and prejudice, eh?
    Wait a minute...isn't this the Wooden Boat Forum?

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    Wait a minute...isn't this the Wooden Boat Forum?
    Hush now, you troublemaker. I'm trying to encourage our best angels here. Put your shop apron on and get back to work
    Last edited by David G; 03-05-2018 at 05:14 PM.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    the least pleasing of the 3 current flavours.
    I've corrected that statement for you.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by darroch View Post
    I've corrected that statement for you.
    Now you've done it. You've gone and made me sound British. Or - worse yet - Canahoodian!!!

    It's pistols at dawn, you scrofulous blackguard!!!
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    I always thought you were a closet Canadian, David.* Forgive me.
    And, by the way, up here it's hockey sticks after dinner.

    *that's a compliment
    Last edited by darroch; 03-05-2018 at 06:42 PM.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    Quote Originally Posted by darroch View Post
    I always thought you were a closet Canadian, David.* Forgive me.
    And, by the way, up here it's hockey sticks after dinner.

    *that's a compliment
    A compliment to Canadians maybe

    OK, seriously, my thanks.

    What does one stick with a hokky sticker? I know what to do with a pot sticker... if that helps??
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Can Cetol save my (boat's) sole?

    As young boys we're brought up with the rule of no fighting, except on the ice.
    And where would I find a pistol up here anyway?

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